Is alcoholism a disease?

Karl Stein

I'll hold fire on this issue until people have voted because I don't want to influence the outcome.

Amirani

Yes. It's a mental health problem.

cometogether

Yes, without a doubt. Amazes me how people claim that it isn't, in their opinion. You can't have an opinion on that, in the same sense you can't have an opinion on the distance between Cork and Dublin

drunkmonkey

What do you consider alcoholism?

As per Wiki...

The modern disease theory of alcoholism states that problem drinking is sometimes caused by a disease of the brain, characterized by altered brain structure and function. The American Medical Association (AMA) had declared that alcoholism was an illness in 1956. In 1991, The AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.

Karl Stein

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you consider alcoholism?

I guess when a person's drinking is severely diminishing their quality of life.

drunkmonkey

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

I guess when a person's drinking is severely diminishing their quality of life.

So when they can't afford it and are not enjoying it?

Karl Stein

Jake1 wrote: »

The modern disease theory of alcoholism states that problem drinking is sometimes caused by a disease of the brain

Okay can't hold back any more.

Disease my hole. It's no more a disease than punching yourself in the face repeatedly is 'swollen face disease'.

endacl

Yes.

And no. Sometimes its a symptom.

MonkstownHoop

Cathal Cloch

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Okay can't hold back any more.

Disease my hole. It's no more a disease than punching yourself in the face repeatedly is 'swollen face disease'.

yeah, ok, you are right Im not going to argue with you about it. Think what you want.

cometogether

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

I guess when a person's drinking is severely diminishing their quality of life.

Nope, that's just a characteristic of it. Alcoholism is an addiction to alcohol.

How Soon Is Now

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

Was waiting for someone to post this! :pac:!!!

Annasopra

endacl wrote: »

Yes.

And no. Sometimes its a symptom.

My mother was diagnosed as an alocohlic and then at a later stage with manic depression. I believe the alcoholism was a symptom of her depresssion.

mango salsa

mango salsa wrote: »

My mother was diagnosed as an alocohlic and then at a later stage with manic depression. I believe the alcoholism was a symptom of her depresssion.

Its very often the case mangosalsa. Each one feeding the other.

gowley

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Okay can't hold back any more.

Disease my hole. It's no more a disease than punching yourself in the face repeatedly is 'swollen face disease'.

dont know myself but a lot of organisations more qualified than you or me state that it is a disease. but hey you obviously know better

Al_Coholic

2 beer threads in one night! AH i lurrrve you *hic*

MonkstownHoop

in all seriousness my dad died as a result of his alcoholism and having had to live with him in his last few years theres no doubt that it is somewhat a disease, its easy to fob it off if not directly affected by it

endacl

mango salsa wrote: »

My mother was diagnosed as an alocohlic and then at a later stage with manic depression. I believe the alcoholism was a symptom of her depresssion.

Tough. Hope you came through it OK.

Czarcasm

No, it's not a disease, and to classify it as such is merely excusing people for a behaviour that is within their power to change when they learn to deal with the underlying causes of their addiction.

Karl Stein

gowley wrote: »

dont know myself but a lot of organisations more qualified than you or me state that it is a disease. but hey you obviously know better

Where is the pathogen? Where is the marker? When is the onset? What is the cure? Can it be cured?

These questions are all easily answered when we talk about real diseases. For alcoholism there are no such answers.

Femme_Fatale

Something being self inflicted doesn't preclude it from being a disease, IMO.

MonkstownHoop

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

in all seriousness my dad died as a result of his alcoholism and having had to live with him in his last few years theres no doubt that it is somewhat a disease, its easy to fob it off if not directly affected by it

Very tough to watch Im sure. Hope you and family are doing well now.

mistermano

years ago i went to my doc (an alco himself) and he explained i had a disease

when i started drinking again i decided it wasn't

Bench Press

its a disease of the mind, you can be sober for year and still have an alcoholic mind

cometogether

Czarcasm wrote: »

No, it's not a disease, and to classify it as such is merely excusing people for a behaviour that is within their power to change when they learn to deal with the underlying causes of their addiction.

Well all of the available information would appear to disagree with you

nocoverart

Al_Coholic wrote: »

2 beer threads in one night! AH i lurrrve you *hic*

I know, I'd love a few cold ones now.

somefeen

It looks like a disease to me. I've met a few true alcoholics not a 'heavy drinkers' who just drink too much at the weekend and maybe has arguements with their family/partner. I mean actual alcoholics, whole life ****ed from it, an genuine need to be hammered all the time. Not actually capable of staying sober so no job, relationships etc. Those guys are ****ed and have all sorts of serious medical complications. If they were to get sober they would actually need medical attention because all their nutrition comes in the form of alcoholic beverages and their stomachs cant handle a normal meal.
Its a disease in the same way that heroin addiction is.

The idea that its the same is punching yourself in the face and thus not a disease is bollox. If you were compelled to punch yourself in the face all day every day then I would say you had disease and needed medical attention to get rid of the compulsion and deal with the aftermath.

Karl Stein

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Something being self inflicted doesn't preclude it from being a disease, IMO.

If you remove the poison (alcohol) as if by magic the organism heals itself.

Also, calling alcoholism a disease can have the effect of absolving the person of responsibility for his condition. I has a disease I can't help it.

Further, when you call addictive behaviour a disease it's axiomatic that it will require a 'cure' - enter all sorts of charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans.

gowley

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Where is the pathogen? Where is the marker? When is the onset? What is the cure? Can it be cured?

These questions are all easily answered when we talk about real diseases. For alcoholism there are no such answers.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/aa022697.htm



as i said im not qualified to say. but if you just google it you can see numerous medical experts state it is a disease. you are obviously more qualified than them and why you asked the question when you already have your mind made up is baffling. you should have just stated in your op that in your opinion its not a disease and you wont listen to the opinion of anybody else.

cometogether

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

If you remove the poison (alcohol) as if by magic the organism heals itself.

Also, calling alcoholism a disease can have the effect of absolving the person of responsibility for his condition. I has a disease I can't help it.

Further, when you call addictive behaviour a disease it's axiomatic that it will require a 'cure' - enter all sorts of charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans.

But alcoholism cannot be cured, hence the phrase 'recovering' addict rather than 'recovered' alcoholic

drunkmonkey

Is it not OCD like a lot of other things?, not so sure OCD is a disease, if it is we've all got a touch of it in one way or another.

Sulla Felix

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Where is the pathogen? Where is the marker? When is the onset? What is the cure? Can it be cured?

These questions are all easily answered when we talk about real diseases. For alcoholism there are no such answers.

1) Mental illness isn't distributed by a pathogen.

2) Not sure about that, but I'm not studying it in a clinical setting.

3&4) Some diseases don't have cures, yet, or possibly ever.

So, none of your points preclude it from being a disease.

Femme_Fatale

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

when you call addictive behaviour a disease it's axiomatic that it will require a 'cure' - enter all sorts of charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans.

It can require treatment though.

Calling it a disease isn't automatically absolving the person of responsibility either. But the propensity to become addicted isn't something everyone has.

Czarcasm

Czarcasm wrote: »

No, it's not a disease, and to classify it as such is merely excusing people for a behaviour that is within their power to change when they learn to deal with the underlying causes of their addiction.

yes, it is, and for you to state that its not, against some of the greatest medical institutes across the world, is ridiculous really.

Do you have a medical or scientific degree?

Karl Stein

gowley wrote: »

a lot of organisations more qualified than you or me state that it is a disease.

Please provide a source so that I may cast aspersions upon it.

bettybarlow

Tough one for me. I am a woman in her 50's who is an alcoholic (denied it to myself and family for years)

I don't want to hurt anybody who is an alcoholic or who is the family of one. I am struggling with my addiction at the moment and have been for 8 years.

I must say this. I drank from 18 to 20, couple of times per week, then stopped for 20 years. Then from 40 to 43 about 3 drinks a month. Stopped 43 to 46. Then from 46 till now every day.

If my brain is different and I can't help myself but drink, why now. Why not an addiction any other time I drank.

I really do not mean to hurt anyone else by posting this but there must be some element of it being a habit or a choice.

nocoverart

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

If you remove the poison (alcohol) as if by magic the organism heals itself.

Also, calling alcoholism a disease can have the effect of absolving the person of responsibility for his condition. I has a disease I can't help it.

Further, when you call addictive behaviour a disease it's axiomatic that it will require a 'cure' - enter all sorts of charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans.

The Cure, Enter Shikari, The Charlatans, White Snake and These New Puritans all in one sentence. Are you sure you're not addicted to music?

Cathal Cloch

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Please provide a source so that I may cast aspersions upon it.

use google, its all there really.

gowley

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Please provide a source so that I may cast aspersions upon it.

look at the bloody link provided or go to the bother of googling it as already stated. or just stick to your own opinion and ignore the experts.

bettybarlow

bettybarlow wrote: »

Tough one for me. I am a woman in her 50's who is an alcoholic (denied it to myself and family for years)

I don't want to hurt anybody who is an alcoholic or who is the family of one. I am struggling with my addiction at the moment and have been for 8 years.

I must say this. I drank from 18 to 20, couple of times per week, then stopped for 20 years. Then from 40 to 43 about 3 drinks a month. Stopped 43 to 46. Then from 46 till now every day.

If my brain is different and I can't help myself but drink, why now. Why not an addiction any other time I drank.

I really do not mean to hurt anyone else by posting this but there must be some element of it being a habit or a choice.

You're not hurting anyone Betty, hope you are getting some help at the moment.

Karl Stein

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

It can require treatment though.

So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.

Calling it a disease isn't automatically absolving the person of responsibility either.

I've actually spoken to people who told me about their problem and how they can't help themselves because they have this terrible disease.

Play To Kill

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Okay can't hold back any more.

Disease my hole. It's no more a disease than punching yourself in the face repeatedly is 'swollen face disease'.

Could you explain the logic in this, I find it very offensive to be honest. I am a recovering alcoholic who thankfully hasn't had a drink in over ten years. The mental and physical compulsion for alcohol I experienced I can only liken to being possessed. The inability to refrain from alcohol no matter how much I wanted to brought me to homelessness and even to two occasions when I attempted suicide to try escape from the hell that alcoholism is.

Removing alcohol doesn't cure the disease either, even after ten years I can still feel at times that the compulsion is only just about under control, the disease is still present even though I'm not drinking.

cometogether

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.

You absolute genius! How has nobody ever thought of this before?!

Galwayguy35

It's not a disease when the person decides to take that first drink but when longing for booze takes over their life then yeah IMO it is.

I saw my uncle drink himself to death, he just couldn't resist the booze once it took hold of him.

MonkstownHoop

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.



I've actually spoken to people who told me about their problem and how they can't help themselves because they have this terrible disease.

see thats an easy cop out when you don't suffer from alcoholism, its easy for you or me to just stop drinking but not an alcoholic

Karl Stein

Jake1 wrote: »

use google, its all there really.

gowley wrote: »

look at the bloody link provided or go to the bother of googling it as already stated. or just stick to your own opinion and ignore the experts.

I'll see your link and raise you a medical journal rebuttal.

The specific disease concept, associated mainly with the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, is contradicted by empirical evidence and unhelpful for preventive and treatment responses to problem drinking, especially for the effort to detect and modify problem drinking at an early stage. The more general disease concept shares these disadvantages and is also ineffective in engendering sympathetic attitudes towards problem drinkers among the general public.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1545723

Mardy Bum

Excellent article on alcoholism and the mind and may stop needless back and fourths on opinion alone.

Sulla Felix

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.



I've actually spoken to people who told me about their problem and how they can't help themselves because they have this terrible disease.

You've got the cart before the horse here. Alchoholism isn't defined by drinking too much, it's like any addiction, definined by wanting/needing to drink so much that it disrupts daily life.

Karl Stein

Play To Kill wrote: »

Could you explain the logic in this

It's really rather simple. Remove the poison and the organism heals itself.

I find it very offensive to be honest.

Hmmm... grumble.

bettybarlow

Jake1 wrote: »

You're not hurting anyone Betty, hope you are getting some help at the moment.

I am in alcoholics anonymous and am currently ten days without a drink (longest time in 5 years). Thank you for kind thoughts.