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Is alcoholism a disease?

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    #152
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    worded wrote: »
    How do you catch alcoholism if it's a disease?

    In the same way as you catch autoimmune diseases


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    #153
    MonkstownHoop
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    worded wrote: »
    .

    Grow up lads the party is over.
    worded wrote: »
    How do you catch alcoholism if it's a disease?

    :rolleyes:


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    #154
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    worded wrote: »
    How do you catch alcoholism if it's a disease?

    How do you catch cancer


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    #155
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    cometogether wrote: »
    Well all of the available information would appear to disagree with you


    That's quite a bold statement. Have you actually READ all of the available information? I won't claim to have read it all either, but I'd call what I've read so far as "It depends on who you read". I can't even say it's 50/50 as that would get us nowhere. I don't expect we'll agree either.

    Jake1 wrote: »
    yes, it is, and for you to state that its not, against some of the greatest medical institutes across the world, is ridiculous really.


    No it isn't, and for you to state that it is, against some of the greatest medical institutes across the world, is ridiculous really.

    See? We can both do that and it still gets us nowhere.

    Do you have a medical or scientific degree?


    I have numerous scientific degrees, none of them medical though, but ten years ago I was for ten years addicted to alcohol, drugs and sex. All addictions, none of which were diseases, I consider they were me self medicating to address underlying issues.

    We could play semantics here all we want, well, you can, but I'm not here to disregard anyone's personal opinion or experience, we're all different and it really doesn't matter what we call the problem, what matters is how we address it.

    For me it was learning to take responsibility for my actions, I knew I was responsible for my own behaviour that nearly destroyed my life and the life I had built up for my family. I was a functioning addict for a long time until I burned out, my body couldn't take any more punishment and I had already put my wife through enough pain.

    That was when I decided I had to stop. As hard as it was at first, I managed it, with the support of my wife and a very close friend who actually IS a psychiatrist. But she didn't have to use her qualifications to help me, she was just there for me when I needed her and is still there for me when I need her to this day.

    Nowadays I can drink RESPONSIBLY, I still smoke (cigarettes, but the occasional toke which helps with my arthritis), and my wife wants me to give that up too, but Jesus I have to be left with some little pleasure in life! :D

    Anyway, here's another psychiatrist who disagrees with your assertion that addiction to alcohol is a disease -

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/06/20/dr-keith-ablow-obesity-is-not-disease-and-neither-is-alcoholism/


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    #156
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »
    Maybe I misread your post but that's not how it came across to me. You seem to imply that people who are "nutters" without drinking are on the way to alcoholism and I think that that's a very broad statement to make.

    No I didn't mean it that way, I meant alcoholics who are physically unable to drink anymore and have stopped against their will.


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    #157
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,630 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    not sure if it a disease - not sure if it really matters - but I do know from personal experience that it wrecks havoc on a lot of Irish life


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    #158
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    No I didn't mean it that way, I meant alcoholics who are physically unable to drink anymore and have stopped against their will.

    My apologies so.


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    #159
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Believing I can drink again and get away with it would set me up for an even bigger fall.


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    #160
    Jumboman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    How does one become an alcoholic ? the more you drink the less of a buzz you get from it.


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    #161
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Czarcasm wrote: »

    http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/06/20/dr-keith-ablow-obesity-is-not-disease-and-neither-is-alcoholism/

    Fox "news" is 100% agenda 0% balanced views.


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    #162
    LizT
    Registered Users Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    Mod

    Post in a civil manner or don't post at all. Calling people trolls or accusing them of trolling is against the forum charter and will be infracted from here on.

    Report any problem posts.


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    #163
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #164
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    Ok lads it's a disease, keep drinking so it's not your fault, the disease is stronger than you.

    Man up you selfish gits. You just love getting blotto whole others face responsibility and reality.

    I don't buy the disease excuse. It's BS plain and simple.

    Heroin create a gap in your body chemistry, alcohol doesn't.


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    #165
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Fox "news" is 100% agenda 0% balanced views.

    Attack the article rather than the source?

    If you read it he makes some very good points.


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    #166
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #167
    MonkstownHoop
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    worded wrote: »
    Ok lads it's a disease, keep drinking so it's not your fault, the disease is stronger than you.

    Man up you selfish gits. You just love getting blotto whole others face responsibility and reality.

    I don't buy the disease excuse. It's BS plain and simple.

    Heroin create a gap in your body chemistry, alcohol doesn't.

    wow thanks for that enlightening post, ill make sure to spit on my dads grave in the morning and tell him if he was a heroin addict it would be different.


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    #168
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #169
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    worded wrote: »

    Heroin create a gap in your body chemistry, alcohol doesn't.

    Can you provide evidence for this claim please.


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    #170
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    Can you provide evidence for this claim please.

    Heroin - my old science teacher told us this. Your body stops producing a chemical that heroin has after 21 to 30 days of consecutive use.

    Alcohol - doesn't do this AFAIK


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    #171
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Die of a headache or reality or work or something?


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    #172
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Attack the article rather than the source?

    If you read it he makes some very good points.

    Whilst I agree with his sub thesis: erosion of personal autonomy will lead to less personal responsibility (this is scientifically verifiable also in behavioural studies) the rest of the article is laughable especially this
    When an alcoholic chooses alcohol over being available to his or her family and friends, that person is making a decision. When a heroin addict chooses heroin over financial stability and performing well at work, that person is making a choice, too.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/06/20/dr-keith-ablow-obesity-is-not-disease-and-neither-is-alcoholism/#ixzz2ZjGHUEvf

    It is rabble rousing at its most fine and only a psychiatrist working for fox news could write something so ingenious.


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    #173
    Bench Press
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭Bench Press


    worded wrote: »
    Die of a headache or reality or work or something?
    seizures. heart attack amongst others


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    #174
    Jonny Blaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Jonny Blaze


    woodoo wrote: »
    How do you catch cancer

    Cancer is a byproduct of repeated mytotic cellular divisions in healthy tissue.

    Roughly 95% of the cells that make up your body divide every three weeks of your entire life, the original cell then experiences apoptosis and dies while the child cell continues the cycle.

    Eventually small genetic mutations/corrupt ions accumulate over time until at some point the process becomes out of control and the parent cells refuse to die, or to stop dividing.

    That's what a tumour is.


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    #175
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    worded wrote: »
    Heroin - my old science teacher told us this. Your body stops producing a chemical that heroin has after 21 to 30 days of consecutive use.

    Alcohol - doesn't do this AFAIK

    This is vague guff at the very least.

    Are you denying that the addictive substance within alcohol has any biochemical effect on the brain?


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    #176
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    worded wrote: »
    Die of a headache or reality or work or something?

    Most alcoholics are functioning members of society who work and do normal things just like you. You must be confusing alcoholics with normal folk who decide to drop out of life and become bums and piss artists.


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    #177
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    Best of luck to everyone beating this addiction. Calling it a disease makes it a bigger daemon than it really is IMHO.

    Can you kick it? Yes you can !


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    #178
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Okay can't hold back any more.

    Disease my hole. It's no more a disease than punching yourself in the face repeatedly is 'swollen face disease'.

    Punching yourself in the face repeatedly sounds a lot like Tourette's syndrome (contrary to popular belief, Tourette's isn't always or just an inability to control obscene speech and can involve a number of physical ticks).


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    #179
    Jonny Blaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Jonny Blaze


    Having studied microbiology, genetics and neuroscience and holding an Bsc. (Hons) as well as having the misfortune of living with an alcoholic parent I believe it all boils down to a matter of semantics.


    Use of the term "disease" usually is associated with a microbial, bacterial, fungal, viral or autoimmune condition characterised by the presence of a damaging foreign body in the tissue of a patient.


    While in a sense the term is synonymous with a sickness, or illness, there are preferred use cases for specific terms within the medical community bases on their etymological appropriateness when applied to the condition on hand.


    Chemical dependency caused by neuroloigally active compounds operating on, and interfering with the healthy functioning of biological processes manifests itself in changes to the cells of affected tissues. Within the nucleus of our cells lie our genes, which are similarly responsive to environmental factors. The active part of our genome that is transcribed and forms the proteins that make up our cells are variable and ever changing in response to environmental conditions. When the conditions change, electrochemical signals are passed to the ribosome of the cell which cause different sections of the full genome to be transceibed or "read" from the full copy of the genome contained within the cell nucleus at that time, based on the requirements of the cell at that time.


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    #180
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    worded wrote: »
    Best of luck to everyone beating this addiction. Calling it a disease makes it a bigger daemon than it really is IMHO.

    Can you kick it? Yes you can !

    how can you kick it ?


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    #181
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭worded


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Punching yourself in the face repeatedly sounds a lot like Tourette's syndrome (contrary to popular belief, Tourette's isn't always or just an inability to control obscene speech and can involve a number of physical ticks).


    What do we want ?
    A cure for Tourette's
    When do we want it ?











    Cnut !


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