Is alcoholism a disease?

Jonny Blaze

Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant which causes different effects all over our bodies. In response to these new chemicals being ingested, one such effect is the triggering of the release of dopamine which causes a feeling of euphoria. This is undoubtedly a pleasant feeling and as such may be desirable for users of alcohol. Repeat doses of the chemical cause a tolerance to be built up as the antibodies in your cells develop better ways of handling the toxicity of the compound. This leads to a spiralling of a users requirement of increasingly larger doses in order to achieve the same dopamine high as could be had earlier with smaller doses.

The fact that the term disease is increasingly used to describe this chemical dependency is out of step with common sense and etymological logic on the matter. That is not to say that there is not a very fine line between the description/ symptoms of alcoholism with an infectious disease however it appears to me that, indeed, the term is applied more widely now to those dependent on alcohol as a means of legitimising, or otherwise absolving their behaviour.

Personally I would prefer the use of the term affliction or illness which are etymologically more suited to describe the condition than is the term disease, which implies the presence of a harmful biological agent within a patient.

johnnyskeleton

worded wrote: »

Heroin - my old science teacher told us this. Your body stops producing a chemical that heroin has after 21 to 30 days of consecutive use.

Alcohol - doesn't do this AFAIK

Actually, heroin (the brand name for over the counter diamorphine before it became a controlled drug) was considered a medical breakthrough at the time because it gave significant pain relief without being anywhere near as physically addictive as morphine or other opiates of the time.

worded

mattjack wrote: »

how can you kick it ?

By first believing you are bigger than it.
Alcohol is not the master of you. You were once a non alcoholic, do
That again

If these was no alcohol tomorrow you would not die.

worded

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant which causes different effects all over our bodies. In response to these new chemicals being ingested, one such effect is the triggering of the release of dopamine which causes a feeling of euphoria. This is undoubtedly a pleasant feeling and as such may be desirable for users of alcohol. Repeat doses of the chemical cause a tolerance to be built up as the antibodies in your cells develop better ways of handling the toxicity of the compound. This leads to a spiralling of a users requirement of increasingly larger doses in order to achieve the same dopamine high as could be had earlier with smaller doses.

The fact that the term disease is increasingly used to describe this chemical dependency is out of step with common sense and etymological logic on the matter. That is not to say that there is not a very fine line between the description/ symptoms of alcoholism with an infectious disease however it appears to me that, indeed, the term is applied more widely now to those dependent on alcohol as a means of legitimising, or otherwise absolving their behaviour.

Personally I would prefer the use of the term affliction or illness which are etymologically more suited to describe the condition than is the term disease, which implies the presence of a harmful biological agent within a patient.

+1

I was going to say exactly that :-)

solas111

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

If you remove the poison (alcohol) as if by magic the organism heals itself.

Also, calling alcoholism a disease can have the effect of absolving the person of responsibility for his condition. I has a disease I can't help it.

Further, when you call addictive behaviour a disease it's axiomatic that it will require a 'cure' - enter all sorts of charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans.

There is a great deal of ignorance and misinformation where alcoholism is concerned and people are often quick to jump in with an opinion without being too concerned about the facts. I do not know the reason for the OP or why Cathal Cloch is so adamant that alcoholism is not a disease but I do know that alcoholism kills and that desperate people who have lost control over alcohol will be reading this thread so please be cautious and respectful.

Anyone who is interested in facts rather than fiction may want to read the Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous) where there is a description of alcoholism and a suggested means of recovery. The Big Book is available to read for free online.

It is now accepted that alcoholism is a two-fold illness, part in the mind and part in the body. The mental part is an obsession for alcohol which drives the drinker to put the pursuit of that first drink above everything else, including health, family, job, driving licence etc. The obsession leaves the person defenceless against the thinking which leads to that first drink.

Once a drink is taken by an alcoholic, regardless of how long he or she may have been sober, a physical craving develops for more alcohol and the only way to satisfy the craving is to take another drink, which increases the craving still further. This abnormal reaction to alcohol comes about because of the way that alcohol is broken down by the body and once a drinker develops this condition it cannot be cured or reversed. However, the craving which leads to an alcoholic needing to drink more and more alcohol cannot develop if the first drink can be avoided.

Avoiding that first drink often becomes an impossible task for an alcoholic as willpower alone is not sufficient in order to overcome the obsession of the mind. For such a person to recover from alcoholism a radical change must occur in their way of thinking and outside help is usually required to bring about that change. An alcoholic who is drinking has no control over his or her condition but there is a choice between continuing to drink and seeking help. Such people will often find all sorts of reasons to avoid admitting that there is a problem and words such as “charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans” can come in handy when trying to come up with a decent excuse.

To anyone who is reading this and who is struggling with alcoholism, there is a simple message. Don’t get caught up in the useless arguments but instead, get help. Go to an AA meeting and you need never drink again.

worded

solas111 wrote: »

There is a great deal of ignorance and misinformation where alcoholism is concerned and people are often quick to jump in with an opinion without being too concerned about the facts. I do not know the reason for the OP or why Cathal Cloch is so adamant that alcoholism is not a disease but I do know that alcoholism kills and that desperate people who have lost control over alcohol will be reading this thread so please be cautious and respectful.

Anyone who is interested in facts rather than fiction may want to read the Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous) where there is a description of alcoholism and a suggested means of recovery. The Big Book is available to read for free online.

It is now accepted that alcoholism is a two-fold illness, part in the mind and part in the body. The mental part is an obsession for alcohol which drives the drinker to put the pursuit of that first drink above everything else, including health, family, job, driving licence etc. The obsession leaves the person defenceless against the thinking which leads to that first drink.

Once a drink is taken by an alcoholic, regardless of how long he or she may have been sober, a physical craving develops for more alcohol and the only way to satisfy the craving is to take another drink, which increases the craving still further. This abnormal reaction to alcohol comes about because of the way that alcohol is broken down by the body and once a drinker develops this condition it cannot be cured or reversed. However, the craving which leads to an alcoholic needing to drink more and more alcohol cannot develop if the first drink can be avoided.

Avoiding that first drink often becomes an impossible task for an alcoholic as willpower alone is not sufficient in order to overcome the obsession of the mind. For such a person to recover from alcoholism a radical change must occur in their way of thinking and outside help is usually required to bring about that change. An alcoholic who is drinking has no control over his or her condition but there is a choice between continuing to drink and seeking help. Such people will often find all sorts of reasons to avoid admitting that there is a problem and words such as “charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans” can come in handy when trying to come up with a decent excuse.

To anyone who is reading this and who is struggling with alcoholism, there is a simple message. Don’t get caught up in the useless arguments but instead, get help. Go to an AA meeting and you need never drink again.

So even aft 10 years of abstinence an alcoholic is as vulnerable after one drink as he is after 1 year off the booze ?

shamrock55

I myself dont think alcoholism is a disease i think its an addiction it can be beaten, i dont know of any disease a person can willingly get rid of a person can beat the need and desire to consume alcohol

Czarcasm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Fox "news" is 100% agenda 0% balanced views.

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Whilst I agree with his sub thesis: erosion of personal autonomy will lead to less personal responsibility (this is scientifically verifiable also in behavioural studies) the rest of the article is laughable especially this

It is rabble rousing at its most fine and only a psychiatrist working for fox news could write something so ingenious.

Mardy I knew I was going to be pulled up on the fact that he is a psychiatrist on the Fox News payroll, but show me ANY study put forward as evidence of a hypothesis, and I'll trace it back far enough to show you an agenda. The point was that in the opinion of just one medical professional at least (and there are many thousands more, but it's half one in the morning and I'm typing this on the phone), alcohol addiction is not a disease, it is as I said earlier a behaviour which is within the power of the person to change when they learn to address the underlying cause of their addiction.

darced wrote: »

You were not an alcoholic if you can now drink responsibly. I am not sure its a disease but I'm sure that you dont get cured.

A Moderator asked us to keep the discussion civil, so I'll do my best -

Do I know you or something? Because you sure as hell know fannyadams about me, so with all the due respect I can muster about now, please don't presume to tell me what I was or wasn't based on very little information contained within one single post. You know nothing, and you know even less about me.

I have no wish to get into an e-penis measuring contest, and I don't feel I have any particular point to prove about myself. I gave my opinion the same as anyone else here and if you have an opinion that disagrees with that, then by all means lets hear it, but don't be so damn presumptuous to tell me anything about myself when you may have a clue about what alcohol addiction is for YOU, but you haven't a damn clue about me.

solas111

worded wrote: »

So even aft 10 years of abstinence an alcoholic is as vulnerable after one drink as he is after 1 year off the booze ?

An alcoholic may be sober for ten days or ten years but once the first drink is taken the craving for more will develop. In fact, the person is more vulnerable after ten years because the body is less capable of breaking down alcohol as the person gets older.

The solution to the problem is to find a means of removing the obsession which leads to the first drink.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Play To Kill

worded wrote: »

So even aft 10 years of abstinence an alcoholic is as vulnerable after one drink as he is after 1 year off the booze ?

In my own experience yes, thats the problem with alcoholism, the mental obsession comes and if you take the first drink it sets off the craving for the next one and fuels the mental obsession.

ScumLord

I've become to drunk to be impartial in this discussion. I can only trust in google that it knows how to convey this messaGE. iT DOESN;T UNDERSTAND CAPITALISATION. pLEASE FORGIVE GOOGLE.

jugger0

Being weak willed isn't a disease.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Mardy Bum

Czarcasm wrote: »

Mardy I knew I was going to be pulled up on the fact that he is a psychiatrist on the Fox News payroll, but show me ANY study put forward as evidence of a hypothesis, and I'll trace it back far enough to show you an agenda. The point was that in the opinion of just one medical professional at least (and there are many thousands more, but it's half one in the morning and I'm typing this on the phone), alcohol addiction is not a disease, it is as I said earlier a behaviour which is within the power of the person to change when they learn to address the underlying cause of their addiction.

I agree that there is most definitely underlying issues when it comes to alcoholism and sociological as well as neurological factors need to be taken on board. However recovering alcoholics never drink alcohol again in any sort of a responsible fashion after quitting, they either quit or they remain heavily drinking alcoholics. Addiction to drugs or alcohol (can) occurs due to abnormal brain structures. This is fact. Now the line between disease and disorder is thin but alcohol can affect the brain's structure.

Karl Stein

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Addiction to drugs or alcohol (can) occurs due to abnormal brain structures.

Say what?

Play To Kill

jugger0 wrote: »

Being weak willed isn't a disease.

Do you say this as an someone who knows what its like to be an alcoholic or as a drinker who thinks they know?

mathepac

Jonny Blaze wrote: »

... the term disease, which implies the presence of a harmful biological agent within a patient.

It implies nothing of the kind.

The word disease (dis-ease) is defined simply as "an impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning" and is applied equally to physiological and psychological conditions.

If you want a term that is used specifically to denote any illness, injury, or disease except mental illnesses, the term is "general medical condition", used in psychiatry and in psych literature such as in my copy of the DSM IV TR

Czarcasm

darced wrote: »

My opinion is that an alcoholic cant drink responsibly,that's sort of the problem with alcoholics.
It is only my opinion but shared by the vast majority of people involved with the addiction.

I had never heard of an alcoholic going on to enjoy a drink after recovering.

Well now you have, because I have learned to control my behaviour. It's like I said earlier in this thread - we could argue semantics here all night and it'd get us nowhere, you see alcohol addiction as a disease from which you can only recover, but will never be cured, and I see alcohol addiction as a behaviour which is used to cope with underlying issues. I won't pretend to speak for you, and there's no need for you to assume you can speak for me.

Smithwicks Man

More of an addiction than a disease for me. Makes no difference really seeing as the person needs help either way and often doesn't get it/won't accept it.



If alcoholism is one... Then is smoking a disease?

Mardy Bum

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Say what?

Cathal are you not reading your thread?

I have already posted this.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Czarcasm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I agree that there is most definitely underlying issues when it comes to alcoholism and sociological as well as neurological factors need to be taken on board. However recovering alcoholics never drink alcohol again in any sort of a responsible fashion after quitting, they either quit or they remain heavily drinking alcoholics. Addiction to drugs or alcohol (can) occurs due to abnormal brain structures. This is fact. Now the line between disease and disorder is thin but alcohol can affect the brain's structure.

Semantics Mardy, addiction is a behaviour, which can as you say be caused by a number of issues, and present itself in numerous different ways, and chemicals will stimulate certain parts of use brain (Johnny Blaze put this much better earlier), but that doesn't suggest still that alcohol addiction is a disease no more than any other addiction to a stimulant which affects a person's brain chemistry.

It just means they have to work a lot harder than most people at controlling their behaviour is all, and that's why when people think I'm reserved and I'm this, that and the other, I know all too well the consequences if I don't control myself.

You're still reaching to try and classify a lack of self control and personal responsibility as a disease.

Karl Stein

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Cathal are you not reading your thread?

I have already posted this.

Hmm.. you said:

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Addiction to drugs or alcohol (can) occurs due to abnormal brain structures. This is fact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc

mattjack

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well now you have, because I have learned to control my behaviour. It's like I said earlier in this thread - we could argue semantics here all night and it'd get us nowhere, you see alcohol addiction as a disease from which you can only recover, but will never be cured, and I see alcohol addiction as a behaviour which is used to cope with underlying issues. I won't pretend to speak for you, and there's no need for you to assume you can speak for me.

I work in a drug service not a treatment centre and I have an interest in one of the comments you made where you suggest that once your underlying issues were addressed the alcohol abuse
stopped.
I have heard of people who abuse alcohol heavily and continuosly but when their issues are resolved
they drink sensibly.Im not sure they were alcoholics more living a
chaotic lifrstyle.
Your posts are interesting , I think you called it a disorder rather than a disease.

Mardy Bum

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Hmm.. you said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc

Instead of coming across as a boorish poster do some googling and learn.

Mardy Bum

Czarcasm wrote: »

Semantics Mardy, addiction is a behaviour, which can as you say be caused by a number of issues, and present itself in numerous different ways, and chemicals will stimulate certain parts of use brain (Johnny Blaze put this much better earlier), but that doesn't suggest still that alcohol addiction is a disease no more than any other addiction to a stimulant which affects a person's brain chemistry.

It just means they have to work a lot harder than most people at controlling their behaviour is all, and that's why when people think I'm reserved and I'm this, that and the other, I know all too well the consequences if I don't control myself.

You're still reaching to try and classify a lack of self control and personal responsibility as a disease.

I'm not tbh, I'm still unsure whether to call it a disorder or a disease. I'm not nearly qualified to say though on this topic.

WilyCoyote

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Have just finished reading all this thread. I wasn't going to get involved as I know how deeply entrenched ideas can be.
I started drinking (sherry) from the drinks cabinet when I was about 10. Just a mouthful here and there. By 15 I was drinking G&Ts when I could (was big enough to be taken as an adult). By 18 I, and a few of my friends, knew that there was a bit of a problem there and by 21 was a full blown functioning alcoholic. The usual tricks: going to the loo in the pub and having a couple of large one's at the far side of the pub on the way back (nothing so boring as drinking with social drinkers etc), when getting my round in having a few quick one's at the counter, carrying a flask of brandy to a party and sneaking a few gulps now and then.
13 years later, 2 bad crashes, three driving bans (UK) (1 year, 2 years and finally 5 years) made me rethink my voyage and I gave up the booze about 6 months later. No AA as I didn't like the approach. Just dried out, analysed my approach to alcohol, read everything that I could find about it and got my head together. Stayed away from the pub for a couple of years and stopped seeing my like-minded drinking friends/boozing pals.
Long story short, gave up for 23 years.
I now felt confident that I could resume normal social drinking and have been drinking once or twice a week since then. In that 6 years I have got merry but never what I'd call pissed. And I can fling a half glass of undrunk wine down the sink before I go to bed. This would be impossible in the old days.
To me, the alcoholic cavern into which I descended was purely of my own making. I poured the stuff down my throat and initially I loved it. But it took over my life. In my 20s, I thought I would not see 40. But there you are.
Just my story.

Karl Stein

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Instead of coming across as a boorish poster do some googling and learn.

You make the claim you back it up.

You said:

Mardy Bum wrote: »

IAddiction to drugs or alcohol (can) occurs due to abnormal brain structures. This is fact.

You're claiming that having an 'abnormal brain' can lead to alcoholism.

Please provide evidence for this.

mattjack

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

You make the claim you back it up.

You said:



You're claiming that having an 'abnormal brain' can lead to alcoholism.

Please provide evidence for this.

Some individuals will use alcohol/drugs asi way of self soothing personsonality disorders or mental ill health often undiagnosed.
There is a connection between addiction and mental ill health