Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Is alcoholism a disease?

Options
13567…25

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    bettybarlow wrote: »
    alcoholics anonymous

    'AA is hard pressed to come up with a 3% success rate'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ_6flmLysc


  • Options
    #63
    nocoverart
    Registered Users Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭nocoverart


    Jake1 wrote: »
    Glad to hear it. Keep going to your meetings as much as you can :)

    Don't be so insensitive :D


  • Options
    #64
    googled eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭googled eyes


    bettybarlow wrote: »
    I am in alcoholics anonymous and am currently ten days without a drink (longest time in 5 years). Thank you for kind thoughts.

    Well done Betty.


  • Options
    #65
    Mr. G
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 4,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Mr. G


    bettybarlow wrote: »
    Thanks

    Fair play to you, keep it up! Remember to Resist the temptation and go on chewing gum or something- were counting on you ;)

    I think alcoholism is not a disease in my opinion, more of an illness that can be treated..


  • Options
    #66
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    It doesn't heal though, as I said above the disease is still present in me today after ten years. I would say without doubt that like any disease it has progressed over the past ten years of no alcohol.

    Nonsense tbh. You've stopped drinking. You've removed the problem and you're healing yourself. Why rob yourself of your achievements?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    ldn92
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭ldn92


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Okay can't hold back any more.

    Disease my hole. It's no more a disease than punching yourself in the face repeatedly is 'swollen face disease'.

    It is a disease and until you have been around someone all ur life who has the disease dont be so quick to judge.


  • Options
    #68
    cometogether
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭cometogether


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Nonsense tbh. You've stopped drinking. You've removed the problem and you're healing yourself. Why rob yourself of your achievements?

    Is this not a paradox? The problem, i.e. the addiction is not removed, its under control at the moment, one day at a time.


  • Options
    #69
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.
    ... which can require intervention/treatment.
    I've actually spoken to people who told me about their problem and how they can't help themselves because they have this terrible disease.
    Well that's their individual (mis)interpretation. Still doesn't mean calling it a disease is removing responsibility.


  • Options
    #70
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    bettybarlow wrote: »
    I am in alcoholics anonymous and am currently ten days without a drink (longest time in 5 years). Thank you for kind thoughts.

    Well done, meetings and being with other recovering alcoholics was the only way I could find to stop drinking, I needed to be guided and helped by other people who had the disease and knew how I felt, I didn't have to explain to them what I was going through. If I was to believe, as the OP does, that just stopping drinking would cure me I'd be insane or dead from alcohol by now.


  • Options
    #71
    googled eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 4,629 ✭✭✭googled eyes


    Cathal, it's not a disease in the way a disease can be "caught".

    But it is a disease in that it can be debilitating and can destroy your standard of living and ruin your life.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    ldn92 wrote: »
    It is a disease and until you have been around someone all ur life who has the disease dont be so quick to judge.

    Being around someone with a 'disease' no more make you an expert on it than my having flown qualifies me to fix jet engines.

    This is a non-argument.


  • Options
    #73
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    'AA is hard pressed to come up with a 3% success rate'

    Thats because the disease of alcoholism has a 97% mortality rate.


  • Options
    #74
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Nonsense tbh. You've stopped drinking. You've removed the problem and you're healing yourself. Why rob yourself of your achievements?


    Ok... I think you are trolling, but lets have a go at pointing out the problems with your 'argument' anyway. If it is not a disease, and, as you say removing alcohol is the solution, then no disease/illness/problem remains.. at least according to your logic.. so what would he/she be healing themselves of?


  • Options
    #75
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Also, calling alcoholism a disease can have the effect of absolving the person of responsibility for his condition. I has a disease I can't help it.

    This the greatest myth about illness that Irish people I know seem to hold. People who have any illness be it physical or mental have a responsibility to minimise, as best they can, their negative impact on society. Society, on the other hand, has the responsibility to maximise it's understanding and awareness of the effects of the illness so that they can maximise the quality of life of the illness sufferer. The alcoholic cannot use the disease as get out jail free card. Likewise the general person in society cannot make assumptions about the personal characteristics of the alcoholic e.g the assumption that all alcoholics are alcoholics because they are ignorant idiots.

    To answer the OPs question, yes it can be. Often times though it is only a symptom of something else.


  • Options
    #76
    MonkstownHoop
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Being around someone with a 'disease' no more make you an expert on it than my having flown qualifies me to fix jet engines.

    This is a non-argument.

    good comparison :rolleyes: you have no idea seriously


  • Options
    #77
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Nonsense tbh. You've stopped drinking. You've removed the problem and you're healing yourself. Why rob yourself of your achievements?

    Because it's not that simple. There's always the risk of relapses and having to resist temptation at tough times.


  • Options
    #78
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Also, calling alcoholism a disease can have the effect of absolving the person of responsibility for his condition. I has a disease I can't help it.
    I'd agree this is half the problem but the blame can't be laid at the feet of the alcoholic. The one time I was in court over the illegal drugs I saw the judge effectively let off a number of drink related incidents. The overall prevailing attitude in Ireland is that being under the influence of alcohol is ok, and anything you do under that influence is ok too.
    wiki wrote:
    A disease is an abnormal condition that affects the body of an organism. It is often construed as a medical condition associated with specific symptoms and signs.[1] It may be caused by factors originally from an external source, such as infectious disease, or it may be caused by internal dysfunctions, such as autoimmune diseases. In humans, "disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories. Diseases usually affect people not only physically, but also emotionally, as contracting and living with many diseases can alter one's perspective on life, and one's personality.

    By that definition alcoholism is a disease so I guess it depends on your definition of disease.


  • Options
    #79
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    Could you explain the logic in this, I find it very offensive to be honest. I am a recovering alcoholic who thankfully hasn't had a drink in over ten years. The mental and physical compulsion for alcohol I experienced I can only liken to being possessed. The inability to refrain from alcohol no matter how much I wanted to brought me to homelessness and even to two occasions when I attempted suicide to try escape from the hell that alcoholism is.

    Removing alcohol doesn't cure the disease either, even after ten years I can still feel at times that the compulsion is only just about under control, the disease is still present even though I'm not drinking.

    What you're describing there is an addiction. People are addicted to nicotine as well and equally feel that compulsion. The big difference with alcohol, of course, is the greater damage and social effects it causes. But ultimately both are addictions and in both cases, 10 years after you quit either, you can still crave the chemical.

    But if nicotine addiction is not classified as a disease then I see no reason to accept alcohol addiction as a disease. But given that alcohol can mask or disrupt mental anguish, it is probably just more or less a symptom of an underlying mental disorder.


  • Options
    #80
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    ... which can require intervention/treatment.

    Ultimately it is the individual who decides whether he wants to 'cure' himself. If the addict won't engage then he can't be cured any means or man. Also, just because it can require treatment doesn't qualify it as a disease.
    Still doesn't mean calling it a disease is removing responsibility.

    It can remove responsibility. Read the abstract that I've linked to above and you'll see that the disease model of addiction is not a universally accepted truth but a problematic way of conceptualizing the issue.


  • Options
    #81
    Kettleson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭Kettleson


    There is no one answer to the question posed, although generalisations can be made.

    For many, alcoholism can be acquired from habit. I've seen it caused by unresolved issues and an acquired reliance on alcohol as self medication. To say there is an alcoholic 'gene' IMO is the least likely reason, although without doubt it runs in families.

    Go into a bar, the sort frequented by daily regulars. Look around you, the place is probably full of functioning alcoholics or people on their way to developing an addiction to alcohol. This is of of course only my opinion.

    And I wont even start to ponder personality. Has anyone ever had the unfortunate experience of having to come into prolonged contact with a sociopathic alcoholic?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    Again, in fairness, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling. If you aren't you really should spend a bit of time acquiring some knowledge of a subject before you begin to attempt to form a meaningful opinion on it... or are you someone who has an opinion on everything and bores the boll'x off everyone down the boozer?
    This is a subject that impacts deeply on a hell of alot of peoples lives and it's a little callous to troll it if you ask me.


  • Options
    #83
    my my my
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭my my my


    the problems we drink to forget are really the disease


  • Options
    #84
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Nonsense tbh. You've stopped drinking. You've removed the problem and you're healing yourself. Why rob yourself of your achievements?

    Healing in the same way as many diseases can be treated, but its still a disease and I still have it.


  • Options
    #85
    ldn92
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭ldn92


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Being around someone with a 'disease' no more make you an expert on it than my having flown qualifies me to fix jet engines.

    This is a non-argument.

    You're right it doesn't make me an expert but I've seen what it does to a person and how much of a struggle it is for the person.


  • Options
    #86
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    johnty56 wrote: »
    Again, in fairness, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are trolling. If you aren't you really should spend a bit of time acquiring some knowledge of a subject before you begin to attempt to form a meaningful opinion on it... or are you someone who has an opinion on everything and bores the boll'x off everyone down the boozer?
    This is a subject that impacts deeply on a hell of alot of peoples lives and it's a little callous to troll it if you ask me.

    I'm getting a bit sick and tired of posters like you who, when they disagree with a perfectly valid question for a thread, they re-baptise the thread as 'trolled'.


  • Options
    #87
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Jernal wrote: »
    alcoholics
    ScumLord wrote: »
    the alcoholic.

    There is no definition of alcoholic. It's a pop-psych term that's thrown around liberally.

    AA's (puritanically derived) definition of an alcoholic would probably deem most drinkers as alcoholics - which is absolute bollocks of the highest order.


  • Options
    #88
    Bench Press
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭Bench Press


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    What you're describing there is an addiction. People are addicted to nicotine as well and equally feel that compulsion. The big difference with alcohol, of course, is the greater damage and social effects it causes. But ultimately both are addictions and in both cases, 10 years after you quit either, you can still crave the chemical.

    But if nicotine addiction is not classified as a disease then I see no reason to accept alcohol addiction as a disease. But given that alcohol can mask or disrupt mental anguish, it is probably just more or less a symptom of an underlying mental disorder.
    as far as I know nicotine addiction is not associated with seriously progressive mental problems, to be honest the op is obviously trolling and I'm not wasting any more time with this thread


  • Options
    #89
    blatantrereg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭blatantrereg


    Yes.

    Portugal has improved the levels of substance abuse by dealing with all forms of it in the context of healthcare instead of justice. This seems to have substantially reduced the overall impact on health and society there.


  • Options
    #90
    johnty56
    Registered Users Posts: 822 ✭✭✭johnty56


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    I'm getting a bit sick and tired of posters like you who, when they disagree with a perfectly valid question for a thread, they re-baptise the thread as 'trolled'.

    Sorry for you, I'm sick and tired of posters like you who think it's perfectly acceptable to spout whatever shi.te is in their minds on public forums.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,973 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    If not a "disease", I would at least call it a "disorder" or a "syndrome". Just as a person's response to stimuli can lead to a diagnosis on the autism spectrum, you have a disorder if your reaction to alcohol (or other substances) is abnormal.

    On the TV show The West Wing, Chief of Staff Leo McGarry described his alcoholism in a way that struck me as having the ring of truth about it, compared to what I've seen in person.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll6GxYVJcuo

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



Advertisement