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Is alcoholism a disease?

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    #32
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,147 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Is it not OCD like a lot of other things?, not so sure OCD is a disease, if it is we've all got a touch of it in one way or another.


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    #33
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Where is the pathogen? Where is the marker? When is the onset? What is the cure? Can it be cured?

    These questions are all easily answered when we talk about real diseases. For alcoholism there are no such answers.
    1) Mental illness isn't distributed by a pathogen.

    2) Not sure about that, but I'm not studying it in a clinical setting.

    3&4) Some diseases don't have cures, yet, or possibly ever.

    So, none of your points preclude it from being a disease.


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    #34
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    when you call addictive behaviour a disease it's axiomatic that it will require a 'cure' - enter all sorts of charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans.
    It can require treatment though.

    Calling it a disease isn't automatically absolving the person of responsibility either. But the propensity to become addicted isn't something everyone has.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    No, it's not a disease, and to classify it as such is merely excusing people for a behaviour that is within their power to change when they learn to deal with the underlying causes of their addiction.

    yes, it is, and for you to state that its not, against some of the greatest medical institutes across the world, is ridiculous really.

    Do you have a medical or scientific degree?


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    #36
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    gowley wrote: »
    a lot of organisations more qualified than you or me state that it is a disease.

    Please provide a source so that I may cast aspersions upon it.


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    #37
    bettybarlow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭bettybarlow


    Tough one for me. I am a woman in her 50's who is an alcoholic (denied it to myself and family for years)

    I don't want to hurt anybody who is an alcoholic or who is the family of one. I am struggling with my addiction at the moment and have been for 8 years.

    I must say this. I drank from 18 to 20, couple of times per week, then stopped for 20 years. Then from 40 to 43 about 3 drinks a month. Stopped 43 to 46. Then from 46 till now every day.

    If my brain is different and I can't help myself but drink, why now. Why not an addiction any other time I drank.

    I really do not mean to hurt anyone else by posting this but there must be some element of it being a habit or a choice.


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    #38
    nocoverart
    Registered Users Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭nocoverart


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    If you remove the poison (alcohol) as if by magic the organism heals itself.

    Also, calling alcoholism a disease can have the effect of absolving the person of responsibility for his condition. I has a disease I can't help it.

    Further, when you call addictive behaviour a disease it's axiomatic that it will require a 'cure' - enter all sorts of charlatans, snake oil salesmen and puritans.

    The Cure, Enter Shikari, The Charlatans, White Snake and These New Puritans all in one sentence. Are you sure you're not addicted to music?


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Please provide a source so that I may cast aspersions upon it.

    use google, its all there really.


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    #40
    gowley
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭gowley


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Please provide a source so that I may cast aspersions upon it.

    look at the bloody link provided or go to the bother of googling it as already stated. or just stick to your own opinion and ignore the experts.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bettybarlow wrote: »
    Tough one for me. I am a woman in her 50's who is an alcoholic (denied it to myself and family for years)

    I don't want to hurt anybody who is an alcoholic or who is the family of one. I am struggling with my addiction at the moment and have been for 8 years.

    I must say this. I drank from 18 to 20, couple of times per week, then stopped for 20 years. Then from 40 to 43 about 3 drinks a month. Stopped 43 to 46. Then from 46 till now every day.

    If my brain is different and I can't help myself but drink, why now. Why not an addiction any other time I drank.

    I really do not mean to hurt anyone else by posting this but there must be some element of it being a habit or a choice.


    You're not hurting anyone Betty, hope you are getting some help at the moment.


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    #42
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    It can require treatment though.

    So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.
    Calling it a disease isn't automatically absolving the person of responsibility either.

    I've actually spoken to people who told me about their problem and how they can't help themselves because they have this terrible disease.


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    #43
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    Okay can't hold back any more.

    Disease my hole. It's no more a disease than punching yourself in the face repeatedly is 'swollen face disease'.

    Could you explain the logic in this, I find it very offensive to be honest. I am a recovering alcoholic who thankfully hasn't had a drink in over ten years. The mental and physical compulsion for alcohol I experienced I can only liken to being possessed. The inability to refrain from alcohol no matter how much I wanted to brought me to homelessness and even to two occasions when I attempted suicide to try escape from the hell that alcoholism is.

    Removing alcohol doesn't cure the disease either, even after ten years I can still feel at times that the compulsion is only just about under control, the disease is still present even though I'm not drinking.


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    #44
    cometogether
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭cometogether


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.

    You absolute genius! How has nobody ever thought of this before?!


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    #45
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,510 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    It's not a disease when the person decides to take that first drink but when longing for booze takes over their life then yeah IMO it is.

    I saw my uncle drink himself to death, he just couldn't resist the booze once it took hold of him.


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    #46
    MonkstownHoop
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.



    I've actually spoken to people who told me about their problem and how they can't help themselves because they have this terrible disease.

    see thats an easy cop out when you don't suffer from alcoholism, its easy for you or me to just stop drinking but not an alcoholic


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    #47
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Jake1 wrote: »
    use google, its all there really.
    gowley wrote: »
    look at the bloody link provided or go to the bother of googling it as already stated. or just stick to your own opinion and ignore the experts.

    I'll see your link and raise you a medical journal rebuttal.
    The specific disease concept, associated mainly with the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, is contradicted by empirical evidence and unhelpful for preventive and treatment responses to problem drinking, especially for the effort to detect and modify problem drinking at an early stage. The more general disease concept shares these disadvantages and is also ineffective in engendering sympathetic attitudes towards problem drinkers among the general public.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1545723


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    #48
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Excellent article on alcoholism and the mind and may stop needless back and fourths on opinion alone.


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    #49
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    So can being possessed by demons. Disney mean that it's a real disease though. Also, there a very simple way of curing this 'disease' - stop drinking.



    I've actually spoken to people who told me about their problem and how they can't help themselves because they have this terrible disease.
    You've got the cart before the horse here. Alchoholism isn't defined by drinking too much, it's like any addiction, definined by wanting/needing to drink so much that it disrupts daily life.


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    #50
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Play To Kill wrote: »
    Could you explain the logic in this

    It's really rather simple. Remove the poison and the organism heals itself.

    I find it very offensive to be honest.

    Hmmm... grumble.


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    #51
    bettybarlow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭bettybarlow


    Jake1 wrote: »
    You're not hurting anyone Betty, hope you are getting some help at the moment.

    I am in alcoholics anonymous and am currently ten days without a drink (longest time in 5 years). Thank you for kind thoughts.


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    #52
    cometogether
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭cometogether


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    It's really rather simple. Remove the poison and the organism heals itself.

    So if you just take booze off an alcoholic and make them come off it cold turkey, just the once, they'll be 'cured'?


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    #53
    MonkstownHoop
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    It's really rather simple. Remove the poison and the organism heals itself.




    Hmmm... grumble.

    Have you ever tried to keep alcohol away from an alcoholic? unless you lock them away like a criminal on death row 24/7 it just doesnt happen


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    #54
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    bettybarlow wrote: »
    I am in alcoholics anonymous and am currently ten days without a drink (longest time in 5 years). Thank you for kind thoughts.

    Well done!


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    #55
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    I think for some its a disease and for others the fact that it can be a disease is an excuse. I don't think every body who has an alcohol addiction has a disease because not everyone reasons for drinking are the same.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bettybarlow wrote: »
    I am in alcoholics anonymous and am currently ten days without a drink (longest time in 5 years). Thank you for kind thoughts.

    Glad to hear it. Keep going to your meetings as much as you can :)


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    #57
    Calibos
    Registered Users Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭Calibos


    I think the OP is thinking of the word disease in terms of bugs, infections, virii etc ie. Something you catch. A pathogen as he said himself. "Make sure you get your shots so you don't get infected with all those tropical diseases in sub saharan africa" etc

    In relation to alchoholism, the term is used like Heart Disease or Lung Disease.


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    #58
    bettybarlow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭bettybarlow


    Jake1 wrote: »
    Glad to hear it. Keep going to your meetings as much as you can :)
    michael999999 wrote: »
    Well done!

    Thanks


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    #59
    Play To Kill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 485 ✭✭Play To Kill


    Cathal Cloch wrote: »
    It's really rather simple. Remove the poison and the organism heals itself.

    It doesn't heal though, as I said above the disease is still present in me today after ten years. I would say without doubt that like any disease it has progressed over the past ten years of no alcohol.


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    #60
    dirtyden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,733 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Excellent article on alcoholism and the mind and may stop needless back and fourths on opinion alone.

    That article is around the physical effects of alcohol consumption on the brain. What is it's relevance?


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    #61
    MickFleetwood
    Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭MickFleetwood


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Is it not OCD like a lot of other things?, not so sure OCD is a disease, if it is we've all got a touch of it in one way or another.

    OCD is absolutely a disease, and we haven't all got a touch of it.


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