Should Schmidt drop BOD?

Hagz

Thing is, I think Laulala's style of play required a bed in period, that I think he's passed now. It will be interesting to see who Penney goes with, but my gut instinct tells me that Laulala will produce for Munster the way he did for Cardiff next season.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

Thing is, I think Laulala's style of play required a bed in period, that I think he's passed now. It will be interesting to see who Penney goes with, but my gut instinct tells me that Laulala will produce for Munster the way he did for Cardiff next season.

He should have bedded in a bit quicker than that bearing in mind the advantage he had over the others of having been coached by Penney previously.

Munsterfans have a player rating gizmo and his average over the season was 5.4. He got 7.9 for the Clermont game which helped his average considerably.

He will be gone at the end of next season and Munster will probably not be allowed sign an outside centre which will mean Munster will be down to one outside centre (Earls).

Leinster7

Only if his form is gash and O'Malley is on fire....but his form has rarely been consistently bad and every player has the odd bad game. Gatland dropping him for a perceived bad game in the 2nd test was nonsense considering how bad Philips played in all tests and he is first choice but then he was severely biased and had to have a go at the IRFU didn't he,..

lolthread.

Schmidt won't be dropping anyone.

Schmidt will promote a player into some of the AI games and potentially a 6N game if a chance is available.

BOD will play under Schmidt, but he will also not feature in every game.

vkid

12 more months of this bod is past it/ the best player in the world ever nonsense to deal with

Oh joy..

.ak

Considering Schmidt played a large role in getting BOD to stay on another year I can't see him dropping him now.

.ak

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Well Schmidt does play McFadden at 13, a player I think is totally unsuited to the position and hardly a quality distributor either so who knows what he makes of Earls there

I actually think Earls would be a decent stop gap until one of the younger guys steps up or Payne becomes qualified. Earls instead of Cave for example, Cave is a more natural 13 but you don't always have to go with the more natural option. Earls does offer attacking potency at 13

Schmidt only plays Ferg at 13 when the injuries mount up. Generally speaking when certain players aren't available it goes like this: BOD>EOM>Darce>Ferg>Macken, it's just the way the injuries have played a part that Ferg had to play 13.

He's acknowledged himself that 12 is his best position, and I reckon Schmidt knew that too, but his hands were tied.

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

BOD will play under Schmidt, but he will also not feature in every game.

For all that Schmidt rotated his team a lot, there was a spine that started every important game and BOD was very much part of that. I don't see that changing now - I'd be surprised if he was rested for anything other than the Samoa game.

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

For all that Schmidt rotated his team a lot, there was a spine that started every important game and BOD was very much part of that. I don't see that changing now - I'd be surprised if he was rested for anything other than the Samoa game.

That's what I expect too. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he plays all 3 tests. Joe is no fool, he'll want to blood new players, but at the same time he needs to make a lasting impression and the AIs are the perfect platform to do it. I reckon he'll pick the best 15 available from day one, as he's a fan of consistency.

molloyjh

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Once BOD retires, an Irish team with an experienced 13 will be better than one with one who hasn't played in a Six Nations.

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I just don't want to go into the 2015 RWC with an inexperienced 13, and the best we can say in mitigation is, oh well, at least we came third rather than fourth in the 2014 6N because we played BDO the whole time.

There will be 6 games between the 2014 6Ns and the 2015 6Ns. Between the training camps etc Joe should pretty much know who his next OC is going to be. So those 6 games should be enough for a pro rugby player to get up to speed ahead of the 2015 6Ns. Then between that tournament and the RWC warm-ups we should be fine for the RWC itself.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I actually think Earls would be a decent stop gap until one of the younger guys steps up or Payne becomes qualified. Earls instead of Cave for example, Cave is a more natural 13 but you don't always have to go with the more natural option. Earls does offer attacking potency at 13

But Caves strength is exactly where Earls' weakness is, i.e. distribution. I really want to see a Schmidt coached Cave. I honestly think he could be very good.

bilston

I would love to see Cave in a strong Ireland team, at the moment he has always been selected in weaker teams. That said he has never quite done it for Ireland yet, he hasnt played badly but he hasnt demanded further selection either, still in a strong side we might see the best of him.

leftleg

jm08 wrote: »

Munsterfans have a player rating gizmo

I really wouldn't be leaning on any kind of "gizmo" from munsterfans to bulk up my own opinions.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

There will be 6 games between the 2014 6Ns and the 2015 6Ns. Between the training camps etc Joe should pretty much know who his next OC is going to be. So those 6 games should be enough for a pro rugby player to get up to speed ahead of the 2015 6Ns. Then between that tournament and the RWC warm-ups we should be fine for the RWC itself.

That will be some baptism of fire for whoever the chosen one is - 6 starts against SH opposition (is the summer tour to SA that season?).

But Caves strength is exactly where Earls' weakness is, i.e. distribution. I really want to see a Schmidt coached Cave. I honestly think he could be very good.

Schmidt can't coach pace. He can coach distribution though!

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

leftleg wrote: »

I really wouldn't be leaning on any kind of "gizmo" from munsterfans to bulk up my own opinions.

It is actually a cool app, and a nice feature of the site. You rate each player after every game of the season and it averages out and gives a pretty strong indicator of who the best player was in each month

lol at the Cave has no pace argument again.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

lol at the Cave has no pace argument again.

I can't think of any international centres that he would be as fast as (maybe BOD now, but BOD still has great acceleration over 5/6 metres).

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jm08 wrote: »

I can't think of any international centres that he would be as fast as (maybe BOD now, but BOD still has great acceleration over 5/6 metres).

I'd say Cave is probably as fast or even faster than a lot of these international centers:

Davies, Smith, Nonu, Roberts, BOD, De Villiers

You don't need blistering pace to be a 13, Cave isn't slow either.

.ak

No centre at any level require top end pace. That's not what being a 13 is about. Sure it's nice if you can run rings around your opponent, but it's not a requirement. Explosive stand-starts is a requirement though, and Cave has that sort of explosiveness.

jm08

9 out of 10 times though, coaches will take pace.

For instance, if Zebo makes a break on the wing, will Cave be right behind him in support to take an offload and finish? BOD's lack of pace now means that he himself isn't a threat from outside 10/15 metres. This means that the opposition know that more than likely he is going to pass / offload, so he won't be making space for his outside backs.

While its not a requirement to have top end pace, it sure is better to have it. Players like Nonu, Roberts, De Villiers (who has had enough pace to play on the wing for SA), etc have the physique that they don't get over and can bulldoze their way through. Conrad Smith is probably the only one who would have a similar physique to Cave, but apparently the thing about him is that he is more of a distance type runner who doesn't slow down as everyone else tires.

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

9 out of 10 times though, coaches will take pace.

For instance, if Zebo makes a break on the wing, will Cave be right behind him in support to take an offload and finish?.

How slow do you think he is?!

jm08

bilston wrote: »

How slow do you think he is?!

Left for dead by Fergus McFadden in one of the warm-up games for the world cup.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jm08 wrote: »

Left for dead by Fergus McFadden in one of the warm-up games for the world cup.

McFadden is one of the fastest Irish rugby players, if not the fastest

jm08

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

McFadden is one of the fastest Irish rugby players, if not the fastest

As far as I know, Zebo is at the moment, closely followed by Earls & Gilroy. Mcfadden isn't standout fast internationally which is who Cave will be up against.

BGozIE

jm08 wrote: »

As far as I know, Zebo is at the moment, closely followed by Earls & Gilroy. Mcfadden isn't standout fast internationally which is who Cave will be up against.

Earls and Gilroy, acceleration maybe. But is Bowe not one of the fastest Irish players atm.

Buer

Cave is not particularly slow. He's not particularly fast. My issue with him is that he simply isn't good enough overall (certainly not in the past 6 months) to be the replacement 13 for Ireland. He makes few mistakes but, on the other hand, often struggles to make an impact on a game. He isn't excellent at breaking the line. He isn't a highly creative player. He isn't a destructive tackler. He reads the game well, picks good lines and supports very well.

He does everything quite well but not anything to a standard that makes you sit up. He's a supporting cast member at provincial level all be it a bloody good one. He's 27 next season and I don't think I've ever really thought "This bloke needs to get a run for Ireland".

jm08

former legend wrote: »

Even more lols at the "McFadden isn't fast" posts. Tragic.

Sorry to spoil your lols, but that is not what I posted. I said he isn't standout fast internationally (which can be interpreting as saying at club level he would be considered fast, but he would be average internationally.

Re Bowe - Tommy Bowe wouldn't be known as a speed merchant (in fact George Hook used to claim he didn't have the pace to become an international winger)!

irishbucsfan

Pretty sure I've heard McFadden is faster than Earls? He was quickest when Earls was in the squad anyway. Haven't heard since Zebo joined up with the squad though.

P.Walnuts

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'd say Cave is probably as fast or even faster than a lot of these international centers:

Davies, Smith, Nonu, Roberts, BOD, De Villiers

You don't need blistering pace to be a 13, Cave isn't slow either.

That is pushing it a little.....alot of those players might lack top end pace over a big distance, but still have fairly decent acceleration over 10-15m....

I don't know why the big fuss over the suggestion Cave doesn't have top end pace....he doesn't, its fairly clear. He is a good footbaler, good tackler and has good hands....but I get the distinct impression from wtching him he just doesn;t have enough to be a good international 13.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Pretty sure I've heard McFadden is faster than Earls? He was quickest when Earls was in the squad anyway. Haven't heard since Zebo joined up with the squad though.

If McFadden is faster than Earls then the argument is clearly over as to who should be the starting Outside Centre.

9 times out of 10 coaches go for pace.

Three Cheers for McFadden - # 13

hip hip

jm08

Good summary Buer - I'd reason that he isn't above average in those area you mention because of his lack of pace as he seems to be an intelligent player.