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Should Schmidt drop BOD?

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    #122
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Buer wrote: »
    To be honest, if he got back and got six months of good rugby under his belt, I'd be all for looking at Fitz at 13 for Leinster initially and then Ireland.

    Marshall or Olding next though.

    I don't think Cave has that bit of class required for test level rugby. He's very competent and doesn't make many mistakes but doesn't give enough to be the replacement. Very solid in all facets, top class in none.

    Keith Earls got selected for a Lions Tour because of his form playing outside centre for Munster. Now, if he isn't up to playing centre internationally, how are two untried youngsters going to be up to it in 6 months time, bearing in mind that they would both be competing against each other as well as Darren Cave for the same position in Ulster.

    How is Fitz going to get playing at 13 for Leinster if BOD is there and will want to play the Heineken Cup games in his final season if he is fit?


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    #123
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    jm08 wrote: »
    Keith Earls got selected for a Lions Tour because of his form playing outside centre for Munster. Now, if he isn't up to playing centre internationally, how are two untried youngsters going to be up to it in 6 months time, bearing in mind that they would both be competing against each other as well as Darren Cave for the same position in Ulster.

    I'm not sure what Earls has to do with Olding and Marshall.


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    #124
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,196 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    awec wrote: »
    For the AI games yes. Time to give our next 13 their shot.

    One of the biggest criticisms of kidney was his over reliance on the old guard. I'd like that to change under Schmidt.

    there is no way BOD will be dropped for NZ or AUS... they would seen as need to win games and the strongest possible 15 will play.


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    #125
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    Please spell out for me without any doublespeak or spin how in god's name that
    jm08 wrote: »
    Keith Earls got selected for a Lions Tour because of his form playing outside centre for Munster.

    relates to...
    jm08 wrote: »
    Now, if he isn't up to playing centre internationally, how are two untried youngsters going to be up to it in 6 months time, bearing in mind that they would both be competing against each other as well as Darren Cave for the same position in Ulster.


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    #126
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    .ak wrote: »
    Yeah, I'd love to see Olding play at 13.

    As I said the beginning of the thread, I think the future 12/13 partnership will be a pair of Ulstermen. Just not sure which two yet...

    Well there are players in the other provinces do. Daly and Tom Farrell impressed me in the JWC, I wouldnt give up on Brendan Macken yet and JJ Hanrahan, Robbie Henshaw and Eoin Griffin are all possibilities. Earls, McFadden and Fitzgerald will all have something to say.

    That said I do think Marshall and Olding could be very good and if Farrell recovers from his injury and lives up to the hype he could be our own Irish SBW in the future.

    When you think about it we have loafs of options and I didnt even mention Darren Cave, Eoin O'Malley, Jared Payne or Tommy Bowe!

    Anyone else?


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    #127
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    Is thread even worth reading? The answer is no, end of


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    #128
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I'm not sure what Earls has to do with Olding and Marshall.

    Quite simply its pie in the sky thinking that maybe they might be able to play as outside centres since neither of them have played there or are likely to play there in the next year or so for Ulster.

    I'm using Earls as an example as a 20 year old who showed enough class in that position to get selected for the Lions and who is now rated as not up to standard.


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    #129
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jm08 wrote: »
    Keith Earls got selected for a Lions Tour because of his form playing outside centre for Munster. Now, if he isn't up to playing centre internationally, how are two untried youngsters going to be up to it in 6 months time, bearing in mind that they would both be competing against each other as well as Darren Cave for the same position in Ulster.

    How is Fitz going to get playing at 13 for Leinster if BOD is there and will want to play the Heineken Cup games in his final season if he is fit?

    You're trying to drag this into an argument that isn't there and you've ignored the point I was making on Fitz being tried at some point in the future.

    Pass.


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    #130
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jm08 wrote: »
    Quite simply its pie in the sky thinking that maybe they might be able to play as outside centres since neither of them have played there or are likely to play there in the next year or so.

    They both have.


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    #131
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    bilston wrote: »
    Well there are players in the other provinces do. Daly and Tom Farrell impressed me in the JWC, I wouldnt give up on Brendan Macken yet and JJ Hanrahan, Robbie Henshaw and Eoin Griffin are all possibilities. Earls, McFadden and Fitzgerald will all have something to say.

    That said I do think Marshall and Olding could be very good and if Farrell recovers from his injury and lives up to the hype he could be our own Irish SBW in the future.

    When you think about it we have loafs of options and I didnt even mention Darren Cave, Eoin O'Malley, Jared Payne or Tommy Bowe!

    Anyone else?

    Coughlan is a player that in two years time will still be struggling with converting into the center, or have flourished and could be a contender.


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    #132
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Quite simply its pie in the sky thinking that maybe they might be able to play as outside centres since neither of them have played there or are likely to play there in the next year or so for Ulster.

    I'm using Earls as an example as a 20 year old who showed enough class in that position to get selected for the Lions and who is now rated as not up to standard.

    They have played 13?


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    #133
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    .ak wrote: »
    Coughlan is a player that in two years time will still be struggling with converting into the center, or have flourished and could be a contender.

    He's being converted into a 12 though. I'm pretty interested in how that turns out.


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    #134
    JagerScout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 392 ✭✭JagerScout


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    He's being converted into a 12 though. I'm pretty interested in how that turns out.

    he has been converted now it's just a matter of will be good enough


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    #135
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Buer wrote: »
    They both have.

    Luke Marshall has 1/15 starts for Ulster at outside centre (against the Ospreys).

    Stuart Olding has never started for Ulster at 13 (9@12 and once @ 10).

    Can you really see Darren Cave been dropped for either of them for Ulster?


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    #136
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jm08 wrote: »
    Luke Marshall has 1/15 starts for Ulster at outside centre (against the Ospreys).

    Stuart Olding has never started for Ulster at 13 (9@12 and once @ 10).

    Can you really see Darren Cave been dropped for either of them for Ulster?

    If they're both fit and playing to the standard they were last season, yes, of course I can. Marshall was already moved to 13 last season to accommodate himself and Wallace in the same team at the expense of Cave who has not been playing too well this year.

    If you've two centres, both with experience at 13, who are in better form than all other options, then of course I'd expect them to take the two centre spots at the expense of a guy who hasn't been playing well.


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    #137
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    jm08 wrote: »
    Luke Marshall has 1/15 starts for Ulster at outside centre (against the Ospreys).

    Stuart Olding has never started for Ulster at 13 (9@12 and once @ 10).

    Can you really see Darren Cave been dropped for either of them for Ulster?

    I thought Marshall looked really good there and I'd love to see him tried there for Ulster and Ireland.


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    #138
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,624 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    no no no - BOD will be crucial to Ireland rebuilding under Schmidt - just cause it worked for the lions , has no relevance for Ireland - BOD influence , experience will be invaluable to a new start , with younger players, who will need his experience and smartness.


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    #139
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Buer wrote: »
    If they're both fit and playing to the standard they were last season, yes, of course I can. Marshall was already moved to 13 last season to accommodate himself and Wallace in the same team at the expense of Cave who has not been playing too well this year.

    If you've two centres, both with experience at 13, who are in better form than all other options, then of course I'd expect them to take the two centre spots at the expense of a guy who hasn't been playing well.

    I've checked and the only time LM started at 13 was against the Ospreys. The following week he was back to 12 against Zebre.

    Darren Cave played 27 games for Ulster last season, all but 3 were starts. Cave started one game @12 (with Mike Allen @13 against Cardiff).

    Games for Ulster last season:

    Cave 24+3
    L Marshall 10+6
    P Wallace 13+2 (Injured?)
    Olding 10+4

    Cave played close to as much as the rest of them put together!


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    #140
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jm08 wrote: »
    I've checked and the only time LM started at 13 was against the Ospreys. The following week he was back to 12 against Zebre.

    Darren Cave played 27 games for Ulster last season, all but 3 were starts. Cave started one game @12 (with Mike Allen @13 against Cardiff).

    Games for Ulster last season:

    Cave 24+3
    L Marshall 10+6
    P Wallace 13+2 (Injured?)
    Olding 10+4

    Cave played close to as much as the rest of them put together!

    And?


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    #141
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    BOD has been irelands stand out player for more than a decade and as we saw from the lions tour-both from the media,players current and past and the fans-there is a lot of emotion and sentiment attatched to him.
    For me you got to be practical-is he going onto the world cup in 2015 which is just over 2 years away? if not,then sentiment has to go largely out the window and replacements need to be blooded and given time to make the position their own.
    Give BOD a final dublin farewell in one of the autumn matches and then move on-surely the best solution


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    #142
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'd rather we won a 6N than got to the semi or even final of the RWC.

    I'm also not sure exactly what monumental difference an extra 6N will make to BOD's replacement.


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    #143
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    I'd rather we won a 6N than got to the semi or even final of the RWC.

    I'm also not sure exactly what monumental difference an extra 6N will make to BOD's replacement.

    i hate to say it-but BOD is no longer that instrumental that a 6n will be won/lost if he is or isnt there.
    World cup is the biggest thing in rugby-for me it makes sense to go into it with a settled and experienced team with tried and tested combos.


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    #144
    JagerScout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 392 ✭✭JagerScout


    BOD playing this 6 nations wont be the difference between Ireland doing well or doing badly at the next world cup


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    #145
    JagerScout
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 392 ✭✭JagerScout


    WorldRugby99 wrote: »
    i hate to say it-but BOD is no longer that instrumental that a 6n will be won/lost if he is or isnt there.
    World cup is the biggest thing in rugby-for me it makes sense to go into it with a settled and experienced team with tried and tested combos.

    Like wales last time?

    After the 2014 six nations there will still be loads of time to settle in a replacement.


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    #146
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I think the RWC is a load of ****e to be honest.

    Winning a Summer series in NZ or SA is far far harder to do.


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    #147
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    6N is, by a distance, the most important thing to the IRFU. It generates the bulk of money that supports rugby in Ireland. Whoever JS sees as the best XV in February will take the field regardless of their age or planning for a tournament that is 14 games away (leaving plenty of time to identify a replacement).


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    #148
    WorldRugby99
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭WorldRugby99


    in the end it will come down to schmidt and what he wants to do,whether he wants to go short term and what is the best XV now,or whether he wants to think more long term and what he sees the team being over the next 2-3 years,hence he may want to freshen things up,introduce a few new players,develop combos etc. stuart Lancaster with england axed a multitude of older more experienced players post 2011 Wcup,in order to build a new younger team when possibly the easier option would have been to stick with wilkinson,sheridan,easter etc.


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    #149
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Our 6N record is ****ing ****.

    Playing BOD in the 6N isn't going to be the difference between us winning the RWC or not. It might be the difference between us winning the 6N or not.


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    #150
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I don't/won't really care about the World Cup until the RWC warmups.


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    #151
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ian Whitten and Ian Dowling got caps on the summer tour 4 years ago. It didn't make them better players.

    If we had a Tuilagi or even a Davies I could accept this argument but we don't. Cave isn't going to become faster and Earls isn't going to become a better distributor because of one 6N.


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