Should Schmidt drop BOD?

Heroditas

I see the usual suspects are nit-picking and dragging the thread down.

Anyway, should BOD be dropped? Not unless someone else shows amazing form between now and November.

His replacement? Wouldn't be surprised to see Payne shoehorned into the role next summer until the next RWC with Olding and Henshaw fighting it out for the jersey after that, maybe even Fitzgerald but God only knows what his form and fitness will be like then.

jm08

Buer wrote: »

And?

According to you:

Marshall was already moved to 13 last season to accommodate himself and Wallace in the same team at the expense of Cave who has not been playing too well this year.

Looks to me like Cave was the first centre on the team sheet every week when you see the no. of games he played, even if he wasn't playing well.

I think Ulster's plans were disrupted with the tragic loss of Nevin Spence. He more than likely would have been the starting 13 for Ulster last season.

Buer

jm08 wrote: »

According to you:


Looks to me like Cave was the first centre on the team sheet every week when you see the no. of games he played, even if he wasn't playing well.

Did I ever make a claim that Cave didn't play the bulk of games or make any claim on game time at all? Is anything in what you quoted incorrect?

My point was Marshall was selected to play 13 already with Cave benched. It's far from unlikely that it will happen again if the respective form of Cave, Olding and Marshall continues and they're all finally available regularly.

Busted Flat.

No

WorldRugby99 wrote: »

BOD has been irelands stand out player for more than a decade and as we saw from the lions tour-both from the media,players current and past and the fans-there is a lot of emotion and sentiment attatched to him.
For me you got to be practical-is he going onto the world cup in 2015 which is just over 2 years away? if not,then sentiment has to go largely out the window and replacements need to be blooded and given time to make the position their own.
Give BOD a final dublin farewell in one of the autumn matches and then move on-surely the best solution

Good old boys club, that is the point, young hungry kids, whether they be from the four corners of Ireland have no chance to get into the game while these prima donnas want to hang past their time. Get a life rugby Ireland.

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't/won't really care about the World Cup until the RWC warmups.

That's fine and dandy for a supporter to have that view but I'd hope the IRFU and the Irish management have at least one eye on the W/cup.

BOD is still the best player playing in Ireland but the dogs in the street know he's going to retire and we need that to be planned for.

Buer

Busted Flat. wrote: »

[/U][/B]

Good old boys club, that is the point, young hungry kids, whether they be from the four corners of Ireland have no chance to get into the game while these prima donnas want to hang past their time. Get a life rugby Ireland.

You seem to have a wee bit of a complex about poor old Brian. It seems the majority of times you've ever posted on the rugby forum have been to have a whinge about him.

Lets hope he plays the next 10 internationals and retires as the most capped player of all time before moving into a job in the IRFU!

Busted Flat.

No

Buer wrote: »

You seem to have a wee bit of a complex about poor old Brian. It seems the majority of times you've ever posted on the rugby forum have been to have a whinge about him.

Lets hope he plays the next 10 internationals and retires as the most capped player of all time before moving into a job in the IRFU!

As they say "Dream on".

Buer

Busted Flat. wrote: »

As they say "Dream on".

Fair point. The IRFU is probably aiming a bit low. Is there anything to be said for a crack at the Aras?

Busted Flat.

No

Buer wrote: »

Fair point. The IRFU is probably aiming a bit low. Is there anything to be said for a crack at the Aras?

Well he is in the age group, that is where spent personalities tend to go, but I don't think that would suit the boss, she has her sights set on the bright lights of Hollywood. (that is not the one in Wicklow).

.ak

Busted Flat., do not post anything about BOD for next 2 weeks, as I'm interested in what else you can contribute to our forum outside of BOD....

jm08

Buer wrote: »

Did I ever make a claim that Cave didn't play the bulk of games or make any claim on game time at all? Is anything in what you quoted incorrect?

My point was Marshall was selected to play 13 already with Cave benched. It's far from unlikely that it will happen again if the respective form of Cave, Olding and Marshall continues and they're all finally available regularly.

Cave's 3 appearances off the bench:
1. Came on for Chris Farrell @ 13 against Glasgow Warriors. L Marshall played 80 mins at 12. Cave's first game of the season. He started at 13 the following week.

2. Came on for Luke Marshall who started @13 against the Ospreys with P Wallace @12 & Stuart Olding at FH. This game was in February when Cave would have been sent back to Ulster from Ireland camp to get gametime.

3. Came on for Andew Trimble who started @ 13 (who moved to the wing). Marshall came on for Paddy Wallace who had started @10 where Pienaar then moved to 10 and P Marshall came on. This was also during the 6Ns.

From what I can see, Luke Marshall only started once last season @13 when Cave came off the bench (during the 6Ns).

All his sub appearances seem to be for Paddy Wallace, with Cave playing the 80mins.

Luke Marshall is listed as having started 1 game @ 13 for Ulster last season.

Maybe we are completely missing each other's point, so just to be clear on what my point is, imo I think only players who are regular starters at their club at 13 will be in the reckoning to play there for Ireland.

bilston

jm08 wrote: »

Cave's 3 appearances off the bench:
1. Came on for Chris Farrell @ 13 against Glasgow Warriors. L Marshall played 80 mins at 12. Cave's first game of the season. He started at 13 the following week.

2. Came on for Luke Marshall who started @13 against the Ospreys with P Wallace @12 & Stuart Olding at FH. This game was in February when Cave would have been sent back to Ulster from Ireland camp to get gametime.

3. Came on for Andew Trimble who started @ 13 (who moved to the wing). Marshall came on for Paddy Wallace who had started @10 where Pienaar then moved to 10 and P Marshall came on. This was also during the 6Ns.

From what I can see, Luke Marshall only started once last season @13 when Cave came off the bench (during the 6Ns).

All his sub appearances seem to be for Paddy Wallace, with Cave playing the 80mins.

Luke Marshall is listed as having started 1 game @ 13 for Ulster last season.

Maybe we are completely missing each other's point, so just to be clear on what my point is, imo I think only players who are regular starters at their club at 13 will be in the reckoning to play there for Ireland.

Yeah thats probably fair although on that basis Cave must be the clear favourite to replace BOD.

Paul Smeenus

Podge_irl wrote: »

Cave isn't going to become faster and Earls isn't going to become a better distributor because of one 6N.

No, but Cave has played four games, for scratch teams, against poor opposition. A run of five (or four) games against tier one opposition, amongst first-choice Irish players, might not make him faster, but it might improve him in other ways as a player. To a point where he could be useful, reliable member of the team, if not BOD.

(If your answer is that he's "too slow for international rugby", that's fine, I disagree. He's not fast, but he's not too slow to do a good job at outside centre. So give him a crack at it.)


The idea that O'Driscoll's presence will signficantly help us do well in the 6N next year, I find mystifying. He ha been playing for Ireland for over twelve years. We've won one Grand Slam in that time. Last year, he took his place on the pitch as we came second last, losing to Scotland and Italy. What suggests he will produce any magic in the next 6N?

JagerScout

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

The idea that O'Driscoll's presence will signficantly help us do well in the 6N next year, I find mystifying. He ha been playing for Ireland for over twelve years. We've won one Grand Slam in that time. Last year, he took his place on the pitch as we came second last, losing to Scotland and Italy. What suggests he will produce any magic in the next 6N?

are you suggesting BOD has hurt Ireland more than helped it?

Paul Smeenus

JagerScout wrote: »

are you suggesting BOD has hurt Ireland more than helped it?

If I thought that, I'd write that.

JagerScout

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

If I thought that, I'd write that.

For one game an Irish team with BOD at 13 is better than an Irish team with Cave/Earls at 13.

Agree or disagree?

Also we won that GS because of BOD's large contributions not inspite of them.

Paul Smeenus

JagerScout wrote: »

For one game an Irish team with BOD at 13 is better than an Irish team with Cave/Earls at 13.

Agree or disagree?

Also we won that GS because of BOD's large contributions not inspite of them.

Agree.

Once BOD retires, an Irish team with an experienced 13 will be better than one with one who hasn't played in a Six Nations.

Agree or disagree?

I see, despite the fact that I clearly never said it, you're referencing Ireland winning the Slam "in spite" of O'Driscoll.

Straw man.

Podge_irl

I think an Ireland team with a Cave that has 10 caps isn't going to be appreciably better than an Ireland team with a Cave that has 5.

I do think that an Ireland team with Brian O'Driscoll is a lot better than one without him.

Tobyglen

No

Yes, glorified flank at international level for last few years. Incredibly overrated here. His last top class season was 2009. Still shows an odd moment of brilliance (wales) but age has caught up and it's time to move on.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I suppose given how tame our backline was under Kidney it's hard to notice just how important BOD is, although easy in a defensive sense

With Leinster his absence is far more noticeable in terms of both attacking and defending

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Tobyglen wrote: »

Yes, glorified flank at international level for last few years. Incredibly overrated here. His last top class season was 2009. Still shows an odd moment of brilliance (wales) but age has caught up and it's time to move on.

Move on to who? Who's a better center playing in Ireland?

Also, if you think his last top class season was in 09 you obviously missed a lot of his games for Leinster He hasn't light up on the international stage consistently but what Irish backs have? We went from having no backs coach to a kicking coach and defensive coach trying their hand at the job on top of having an awful head coach playing turgid rugby

He's regressed in areas, but he's still head and shoulders above any 13 we have, there is no reason to drop him.

JagerScout

This thread has really helped me add a few more posters to the ignore list.

Baffling.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

This thread has really helped me add a few more posters to the ignore list.

Baffling.

You did start the thread, if you wanted everyone to agree with you then why start it in the first place?

Paul Smeenus

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think an Ireland team with a Cave that has 10 caps isn't going to be appreciably better than an Ireland team with a Cave that has 5.

I do think that an Ireland team with Brian O'Driscoll is a lot better than one without him.

Fair enough. I have no idea why you wouldn't think that Cave would be a better player having a Six nations under his belt.

It doesn't even have to be Cave.

I just don't want to go into the 2015 RWC with an inexperienced 13, and the best we can say in mitigation is, oh well, at least we came third rather than fourth in the 2014 6N because we played BDO the whole time.

JagerScout

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

You did start the thread, if you wanted everyone to agree with you then why start it in the first place?

didn't want everyone to agree with me... but some posters really showed how blind they are

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

didn't want everyone to agree with me...

then why have such a adverse reaction to a poster actually saying he thinks Schmidt should drop BOD?

brinty

Hi all, i got 5 pages in and stopped, has anyone mentioned robbie henshaw as the future 13??? I've heard from several ITK's in the press the Leinster tried to recruit him into their academy and mould him as a replacement for BOD but he choose Connacht to study in Galway and gets his qualifications and slowly build into his rugby career...but it was accelerate out west last season due to injuries???

Hagz

I can't understand the argument of resting BOD for any of the 6 nations games in place of another 13, so that said 13 has more experience going into 2015.

Firstly, how valuable will that extra experience even be? I mean really. Is 80 minutes against Italy going to make them that much better in 2015?

Secondly, we have no idea who will be the front-runner 13 in 2015, nor do the coaches, so why on earth would you experiment with a 13 now that may very well be at the bottom of the list in 2015? Fair enough if BOD was out of form, or if there were options that were putting pressure on him, but he isn't and there isn't.

If I remember correctly, people criticised Kidney in the sense that there were players who were more often than not constants in his XV, despite being out of form or the presence of other options who were performing better. O'Driscoll may not be the attacking threat he used to be, but he is still playing well and his positives far out-weigh what any of the other options have to offer. We desperately need to win the 6 nations, and that's all that matters.

jm08

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Move on to who? Who's a better center playing in Ireland?

Also, if you think his last top class season was in 09 you obviously missed a lot of his games for Leinster He hasn't light up on the international stage consistently but what Irish backs have? We went from having no backs coach to a kicking coach and defensive coach trying their hand at the job on top of having an awful head coach playing turgid rugby

He's regressed in areas, but he's still head and shoulders above any 13 we have, there is no reason to drop him.

I think some of the younger backs that came in this year have lit it up - Luke Marshall was making loads of line-breaks in the 6Ns (something we haven't seen BOD or D'Arcy do in a while), but the support wasn't there for him or his passing let him down a bit, but that will come with experience and developing a relationship with his centre partner/outside backs.

Zebo & Gilroy were excellent in the autumn internationals (and there was no BOD).

JagerScout

brinty wrote: »

Hi all, i got 5 pages in and stopped, has anyone mentioned robbie henshaw as the future 13??? I've heard from several ITK's in the press the Leinster tried to recruit him into their academy and mould him as a replacement for BOD but he choose Connacht to study in Galway and gets his qualifications and slowly build into his rugby career...but it was accelerate out west last season due to injuries???

doubt he will be ready in the next season or two.

Be interesting to see what happens this season, he has Griffin ahead of him at 13 and he is a decent player aswell.

Undoubtedly talented though.