Should Schmidt drop BOD?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

jm08 wrote: »

I think some of the younger backs that came in this year have lit it up - Luke Marshall was making loads of line-breaks in the 6Ns (something we haven't seen BOD or D'Arcy do in a while), but the support wasn't there for him or his passing let him down a bit, but that will come with experience and developing a relationship with his centre partner/outside backs.

Zebo & Gilroy were excellent in the autumn internationals (and there was no BOD).

Fair point, but I meant over the course of those four years we haven't seen any Irish backs play consistently well for Ireland in attack. Obviously the likes of Kearney/Sexton/Bowe/BOD have had good games in attack but I think our attacking play was way to pedestrian to allow them to flourish

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

I can't understand the argument of resting BOD for any of the 6 nations games in place of another 13, so that said 13 has more experience going into 2015.

Its not just getting used to a much faster game, better defence etc, its also about building partnerships. You often here it commented that BOD & D'Arcy have a sort of telepathey between them, and then of course it was given as a reason to start Davies & Roberts together as BOD & Davies hadn't gelled.

Podge_irl

brinty wrote: »

Hi all, i got 5 pages in and stopped, has anyone mentioned robbie henshaw as the future 13??? I've heard from several ITK's in the press the Leinster tried to recruit him into their academy and mould him as a replacement for BOD but he choose Connacht to study in Galway and gets his qualifications and slowly build into his rugby career...but it was accelerate out west last season due to injuries???

Man, Ouncer is gonna be pissed...

JagerScout

jm08 wrote: »

Its not just getting used to a much faster game, better defence etc, its also about building partnerships. You often here it commented that BOD & D'Arcy have a sort of telepathey between them, and then of course it was given as a reason to start Davies & Roberts together as BOD & Davies hadn't gelled.

stretching, you just did it.

realistically the next 13 will be Jared Payne, who isn't eligible yet.

jm08

JagerScout wrote: »

stretching, you just did it.

realistically the next 13 will be Jared Payne, who isn't eligible yet.

I don't understand what you mean there.

Realistically I can't see Jared Payne playing anything other than 15 for Ulster (where he is class) as Ulster don't seem to have any other fullbacks coming through.

jm08

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Fair point, but I meant over the course of those four years we haven't seen any Irish backs play consistently well for Ireland in attack. Obviously the likes of Kearney/Sexton/Bowe/BOD have had good games in attack but I think our attacking play was way to pedestrian to allow them to flourish

I think international defences are much harder to break down with the amount of analysis now available.

JagerScout

jm08 wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean there.

Realistically I can't see Jared Payne playing anything other than 15 for Ulster (where he is class) as Ulster don't seem to have any other fullbacks coming through.

Ulster don't have fullbacks coming through?

Peter Nelson(20) is a promising fullback who played 9 times for Ulster last year. Rory Scholes(20) is another player coming through too.

They also just brought David McIlwaine(24) from Bristol who had been impressive since leaving Ulster to gain more experience.

Neither are obviously better than Payne currently but there is plenty of talk up north about Payne playing more 13 for Ulster because the IRFU want him too.

Teferi

^ Payne played a bit of 13 during his last year in S15 too I think.

Hagz

jm08 wrote: »

Its not just getting used to a much faster game, better defence etc, its also about building partnerships. You often here it commented that BOD & D'Arcy have a sort of telepathey between them, and then of course it was given as a reason to start Davies & Roberts together as BOD & Davies hadn't gelled.

I understand what you're saying, but I just don't see the point in starting to build a partnership that may very well never play again. As has been said, the next in line 13 could come from Leinster, or it could be Henshaw at Connacht etc. I'd understand it if the there was a 13 who looked for all money like he was next in line, but that isn't the case.

jm08

JagerScout wrote: »

Ulster don't have fullbacks coming through?

Peter Nelson(20) is a promising fullback who played 9 times for Ulster last year. Rory Scholes(20) is another player coming through too.

They also just brought David McIlwaine(24) from Bristol who had been impressive since leaving Ulster to gain more experience.

Neither are obviously better than Payne currently but there is plenty of talk up north about Payne playing more 13 for Ulster because the IRFU want him too.

This is the last chance that Ulster have of winning silverwear before Muller & Afoa finish off (and Pienaar & Williams I think as well). There will not be too much blooding of newbies this year I'd imagine.

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

I understand what you're saying, but I just don't see the point in starting to build a partnership that may very well never play again. As has been said, the next in line 13 could come from Leinster, or it could be Henshaw at Connacht etc. I'd understand it if the there was a 13 who looked for all money like he was next in line, but that isn't the case.

They (leading contenders are Earls, Cave & McFadden) may not be what you want, but in the not too distant future, someone is going to have to replace BOD & D'Arcy.

Apart from having a starter for 12 & 13, Ireland will also need cover in case of injury.

Who is going the injury cover for Brian & D'Arcy in the autumn?

JagerScout

your desperation to have earls be bod's replacement is obvious.. he will to really improve his consistency when passing the ball to be an international quality 13 for a coach like joe schmidt.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

your desperation to have earls be bod's replacement is obvious.. he will to really improve his consistency when passing the ball to be an international quality 13 for a coach like joe schmidt.

Well Schmidt does play McFadden at 13, a player I think is totally unsuited to the position and hardly a quality distributor either so who knows what he makes of Earls there

I actually think Earls would be a decent stop gap until one of the younger guys steps up or Payne becomes qualified. Earls instead of Cave for example, Cave is a more natural 13 but you don't always have to go with the more natural option. Earls does offer attacking potency at 13

Hagz

I think a full season is enough to get a partnership to gel. Once Bod leaves we'll have the Autumn, the 6 Nations and the warm-up games to get the new partnership to gel.

JagerScout

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Well Schmidt does play McFadden at 13, a player I think is totally unsuited to the position and hardly a quality distributor either so who knows what he makes of Earls there

I actually think Earls would be a decent stop gap until one of the younger guys steps up or Payne becomes qualified. Earls instead of Cave for example, Cave is a more natural 13 but you don't always have to go with the more natural option. Earls does offer attacking potency at 13

McFadden was always more a stop gap, he was the best option of a limited bunch with Darcy, BOD, Macken and O'Malley all injured at the time.
He was never touted as a long term replacement at 13 for BOD by management.

Much more options available to him as Ireland coach.

jm08

JagerScout wrote: »

your desperation to have earls be bod's replacement is obvious.. he will to really improve his consistency when passing the ball to be an international quality 13 for a coach like joe schmidt.

I find the 'anyone with one leg rather than Earls' rather entertaining tbh.

I'd be pretty sure that Joe Schmidt would really appreciate any player who can breach a defence - not many of those around. Far too many who spend their time crabbing across a pitch/distributing behind the gainline.;)

Hagz

My issue with Earls though, is that realistically, Penney should be going with Laulala given that he's the better outside centre, so how much game-time will Earls actually see at outside centre.

He's probably ahead of Cave at the moment, but Cave has the advantage of playing full-time there.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Hagz wrote: »

My issue with Earls though, is that realistically, Penney should be going with Laulala given that he's the better outside centre, so how much game-time will Earls actually see at outside centre.

He's probably ahead of Cave at the moment, but Cave has the advantage of playing full-time there.

hmmm, Casey L finished the season well when Earls was injured but for the vast majority of it Earls was nailed into that 13 shirt for me. I do think at his best Casey L is better but he was very poor last season

JagerScout

biggest game of the season had Casey starting 13 and earls on the wing.. I wonder why..

jm08

Hagz wrote: »

My issue with Earls though, is that realistically, Penney should be going with Laulala given that he's the better outside centre, so how much game-time will Earls actually see at outside centre.

He's probably ahead of Cave at the moment, but Cave has the advantage of playing full-time there.

Lauala has been pretty poor for Munster and anyway he isn't a long term option as his contract is up at the end of this season and probably won't be renewed. Last season, Earls was selected ahead of him (and in some instances Casey was moved to 12 to facilitate that).

All but one of Earls starts last season were at 13. The one game at 14 was against Clermont and that was covering for Howlett. From what we know, 2 new wingers are coming in this season, so it looks like Penney doesn't see Earls on the wing because at this stage, Munster has only 2 outside centres on their books having released Danny Barnes.

jm08

JagerScout wrote: »

biggest game of the season had Casey starting 13 and earls on the wing.. I wonder why..

Howlett & O'Dea were injured. Earls was coming back from an injury, but Penney was getting his best players on the pitch.

JagerScout

jm08 wrote: »

Howlett & O'Dea were injured. Earls was coming back from an injury, but Penney was getting his best players on the pitch.

got earls playing his best position, wing. smart move by penny.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

biggest game of the season had Casey starting 13 and earls on the wing.. I wonder why..

Denis Hurley/Johne Murphy being the other wing options that's why, Earls had also been injured. It certainly wasn't formed based, LLL was abysmal in the weeks leading up to that game

Earls started ahead of LLL at 13 for the vast majority of the season

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

To add to that if Howlett was fit Earls would have started at 13, I've no doubt about that at all

As it turned out LLL finally put in a shift that that was reminiscent of the player he was before joining Munster, and hopefully the one that will be with us next season

jm08

JagerScout wrote: »

got earls playing his best position, wing. smart move by penny.

Actually Earls never plays on Dougie's wing. When on the wing, its usually 11.

Earls has had 13 appearances in 5 seasons at 11 and 45 at 13.

JagerScout

yet his best performances always come when playing on the wing.. surely not a coincidence.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

yet his best performances always come when playing on the wing.. surely not a coincidence.

I don't think anyone is disputing that Earls is a better winger than a center. He was however, a more needed at 13 for Munster this season because of the form, or lack thereof, of Casey L

jm08

JagerScout wrote: »

yet his best performances always come when playing on the wing.. surely not a coincidence.

How do you rate the performances? Is it by the number of tries he scores or the difficulty of the finish?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jesus christ, It's nearly 3am and I'm here discussing Keith Earls in July! Off to bed with me!

jm08

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I don't think anyone is disputing that Earls is a better winger than a center. He was however, a more needed at 13 for Munster this season because of the form, or lack thereof, of Casey L

Indeed, he was a lazy defender and the number of his offloads that went to the opposition.