Should Schmidt drop BOD?

Cool_CM

Looked at the thread title and thought "shouldn't this be in the Leinster thread?", then I remembered!

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

The fact he is the best 13 we have shouldn't matter.

Kidney got criticism in the past for not looking forward. BOD should not play unless he absolutely needs to.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never criticised Kidney for not looking forward. I criticised him for relying on players he knew when there were, to me, better players available. Starting DOC when he'd already been ousted by Ryan at Munster for example. I don't think that Cave, or Earls or whoever steps in after BOD, will be a significantly better player come the RWC for having two 6N under their belts rather than one. Hell, Earls already has one and it didn't suddenly make him a better centre. That's not even going into the fact that the RWC can go and ****e for all I care. Ireland win **** all 6N and I'd like to both win one of them and win against NZ.

BOD needs to play if we want to win games. I do not understand why people want the coach to harm a team's chances of winning by playing an inferior player.

Ciaran-Irl

awec wrote: »

The fact he is the best 13 we have shouldn't matter.

Kidney got criticism in the past for not looking forward. BOD should not play unless he absolutely needs to. His time is coming to an end, it's time to figure out who will replace him.

The Irish 13 at the world cup should be Payne, and we can't try him out yet. Why avoid using BOD because he won't be available in a year's time, when he is available now. By that logic, we shouldn't have used him last year, knowing that we wouldn't use him this year, given that he would be gone in two years. In fact, why stop there? We should just play 20 year olds forever to plan for a future that never happens.

Busted Flat.

No

Podge_irl wrote: »

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never criticised Kidney for not looking forward. I criticised him for relying on players he knew when there were, to me, better players available. Starting DOC when he'd already been ousted by Ryan at Munster for example. I don't think that Cave, or Earls or whoever steps in after BOD, will be a significantly better player come the RWC for having two 6N under their belts rather than one. Hell, Earls already has one and it didn't suddenly make him a better centre. That's not even going into the fact that the RWC can go and ****e for all I care. Ireland win **** all 6N and I'd like to both win one of them and win against NZ.

BOD needs to play if we want to win games. I do not understand why people want the coach to harm a team's chances of winning by playing an inferior player.

BOD didn't play in the final Lions game and they won. Oh $hit, I am sorry that will offend a lot of his disciples. It is a young mans game not a launching pad for a career for over the hill players. Give the young lads a chance, or we will end up with no team.

JagerScout

Busted Flat. wrote: »

BOD didn't play in the final Lions game and they won. Oh $hit, I am sorry that will offend a lot of his disciples. It is a young mans game not a launching pad for a career for over the hill players. Give the young lads a chance, or we will end up with no team.

jaysus you talk awful crap.

thomond2006

Busted Flat. wrote: »

BOD didn't play in the final Lions game and they won. Oh $hit, I am sorry that will offend a lot of his disciples. It is a young mans game not a launching pad for a career for over the hill players. Give the young lads a chance, or we will end up with no team.

You mad bro?

Podge_irl

Busted Flat. wrote: »

BOD didn't play in the final Lions game and they won. Oh $hit, I am sorry that will offend a lot of his disciples. It is a young mans game not a launching pad for a career for over the hill players. Give the young lads a chance, or we will end up with no team.

The All Blacks win without BOD playing all the time. Its about as relevant.

BOD is not over the hill. Ignoring the fact that I don't think Davies should have picked over him and the result of the game had nothing to do with the centres, Ireland don't have another option that is even close to as good as Davies.

I fail to see what people think we'll accomplish by playing Cave or Earls in the 6N. They'll remain middling to good centres while an excellent one needlessly sits on his arse.

I'd like to see Bowe play 13 after BOD retires. A backline like this would be sick.
9. Murray
10.Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Madigan
13. Bowe
14. Zebo
15. Kearney

Swan Curry

MAXFANTANA wrote: »

I'd like to see Bowe play 13 after BOD retires. A backline like this would be sick.
9. Murray
10.Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Madigan
13. Bowe
14. Zebo
15. Kearney

Putting our best winger at 13 and our second best outhalf at 12 would certainly make me sick.

Podge_irl

MAXFANTANA wrote: »

I'd like to see Bowe play 13 after BOD retires. A backline like this would be sick.
9. Murray
10.Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Madigan
13. Bowe
14. Zebo
15. Kearney

I don't doubt that Madigan, if left there, would develop into a very good 12. He's not going to play there regularly though and I'd take Marshall ahead of him there any day really.

FrannoFan

JagerScout wrote: »

The only real options are:

1. Earls
2. Cave
3. Griffin
4. McFadden
5. Fitzgerald
6. Olding
7. O'Malley
8. Macken

Not sure who else might be an option..

Realising that they are the options and that is depressing!Earls can't pass, Cave too slow and not powerful enough at highest level. Fitz or Olding maybe?
Winning a 6 nations would be better prep for the world cup than dropping our best 13.
Feel the Bowe experiment should have been done from the last lions tour till now(when BOD didn't play obviously, keeps his wing spot in between)
Fitz may develop there with leinster over the next two years.

Schmidt has a summer tour/autumn/ 6 nations/world cup warm up games to bed in a replacement after BOD retires.maybe 10/12 games. plenty of time particularly if whoever it is has a few caps already by this stage be it off the bench or on the wing etc.
At leinster he gave youth a chance but when it came to the crunch he had his old guard out there so i don't expect miracles in terms of team selection. if there is an older guy who is better he will play the majority of key games. Which in the world of the IRFU brains trust is all of them!

Swan Curry

Swan Curry wrote: »

Putting our best winger at 13 and our second best outhalf at 12 would certainly make me sick.

I don't doubt that Bowe is our best winger and trying him a centre would be a risk but we have no replacement for BOD but have a good stream of wingers. Bowe played centre for the Lions and the Osperys. The lines he takes and constantly turning up in midfield make it likely he would make a good centre. I feel he's wasted on the wing since he's such a big man and has great hands.

bilston

If BOD is the best player available (which he still is IMO) then he plays. If someone manages to overtake him next season then they play. It's not rocket science.

The key thing is you don't pick him for sentimental reasons (I'd question whether he himself would want that) but equally you don't just drop him because the WC is two years away. Working to four year cycles is silly anyway. While winning a WC would be the pinnacle of the game the previously stated goal of the IRFU was to reach a SF. Now I dont know about the rest of you but winning the Six Nations is far more important to me than reaching a WC Semi Final and while things may change over the course of the season the current man to help us do that at 13 is BOD.

bilston

MAXFANTANA wrote: »

I'd like to see Bowe play 13 after BOD retires. A backline like this would be sick.
9. Murray
10.Sexton
11. Gilroy
12. Madigan
13. Bowe
14. Zebo
15. Kearney

Bowe at 13 could and would work IMO but its unlikely he will play there at all at Ulster. Also are you sure you're not just trying too hard to fit the Mad Dog into the team?!

Hagz

Listen, our priority should be winning the 6 nations. The last time we won it was 2009. Nothing else matters. Play the best players we have, and right now, Nobody touches O'Driscoll.

Teferi

It is as simple as this:

Question: Is BOD the best 13 we have available?
Answer: Yes.

Therefore he should not be dropped for the big games.

This does not mean we shouldn't start planning for the future either and I believe Joe will do this.

.ak

The future centre partnership will be two Ulster men of some sort of combo.

But for this season it's BOD all the way, with hopefully some hopefuls getting some game time in the AIs, and some cameos in the 6N.

jm08

Since he was offered a contract and agreed to stay on, it would be terrible if he was dropped now, though if there is a win over the All Blacks in the autumn (hopefully) he might want to bow out internationally on a high and that would be great.

I don't think there is too far ahead of the posse now (even though its hard to compare him to anyone else because no one else has really got a chance to step up). In some facits like defence he is still the best and his work as an extra flanker, but his attack is nothing what it was even 2 years ago and I believe he made one linebreak in the 6Ns.

As an aside, I came across this article from a NZ website on Warren Gatland (seems to be someone trying to get Gatland back to NZ) about why he dropped BOD for Davies.

I did not agree with dropping O'Driscoll for the final Lions test, but here is an insight into Gatland's thinking. Yes, we know that he wanted Jonathan Davies's left foot, he has already explained that. But in the second test, O'Driscoll was barking Davies out and the younger man was shrivelling. Johnny Sexton was also not at his best. Gatland is prepared to take the hard calls, if he thinks it's right for the team. He did not take Shaun Edwards, his right-hand man for 10 years, to Australia because he thought it was best for the team. That was an incredibly difficult conversation for him.

He then dropped O'Driscoll because he thought the senior statesman was cowing the men inside him. Gatland wanted Sexton to step up. He wanted Davies to play like he can. And the best way he saw was to drop O'Driscoll.

The rest of the article is here.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/8916219/NZRU-need-to-show-some-love-for-Gatland

Paul Smeenus

That's quite an insight, and a quality of article that's rare.

However, it includes an implicit criticism of BOD, so don your tin foil hats!

jamiedav2011

It's an article from NZ, heavily praising Gatland, from a writer who fairly heavily criticises Irish rugby. But in any case, there's no actual insight into Gatland's thinking, just a few suppositions from the writer!

The only example of this I saw was BOD's look at Davies after the AAC try, which was certainly warranted!

Don't know how it's relevant to this thread though, unless you're saying BOD is a bad influence on younger players now?

jm08

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

It's an article from NZ, heavily praising Gatland, from a writer who fairly heavily criticises Irish rugby. But in any case, there's no actual insight into Gatland's thinking, just a few suppositions from the writer!

The only example of this I saw was BOD's look at Davies after the AAC try, which was certainly warranted!

Don't know how it's relevant to this thread though, unless you're saying BOD is a bad influence on younger players now?

I think the article is written by someone close to/employed by Gatland to improve his profile in New Zealand. There have been a few pro gatty articles in the New Zealand press.

That article (or I for that matter) do not say that BOD is a bad influence on young players - its just that they are in total awe of him and any bit of criticism from him is worse because of who he is and they went into their shell. Most of the young centres like Manu, Davies etc. were all tweeting photos of themselves with BOD and how honoured they were to get a chance to play with him.

shuffol

So going into an all or nothing 3rd Lions test you want to pick the guy who feels cowed by somebody shouting at him rather than the guy who does all the communicating.

BGozIE

No.

A bigger problem is who will be plying 13 when he is gone?

Darren cave?

Alpha Dog 1

No

He should definitely be part of the squad but it's definitely time to start looking for a replacement in the starting team. Also, it's about time someone else got a chance.
We need to build towards the world cup, if the lions thought us anything it was that there is life after BOD.
If he was in any other international team he would have been dropped a few years ago when he went into decline.

Artful_Badger

Jared Payne will be eligible wont he ? Given the lack of talent at 13 in Ireland to immediately replace BOD I'd say he could prove a valuable player to tie us over for a few years.

BGozIE

Move Bowe into the center

Final game, Lions tour 2009

Anyone....?

Artful_Badger

Also worth hoping that immediately upon his retirement BOD is taken on in a coaching role for Ireland.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Luke Fitz could be a fantastic 13 imo, worth a try anyway, but obviously not for Ireland first

jm08

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Jared Payne will be eligible wont he ? Given the lack of talent at 13 in Ireland to immediately replace BOD I'd say he could prove a valuable player to tie us over for a few years.

What are the chances of Payne (or Bowe) being moved to 13 for Ulster? (to be honest, I reckon Payne will be needed at fullback for Ireland as we are a bit thin on the ground for good quality fullbacks.

jm08

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Also worth hoping that immediately upon his retirement BOD is taken on in a coaching role for Ireland.

Conflict of interests - BOD is involved in a player management agency(IKON Talent). Jamie Heaslip, Cian Healy, Luke Fitz are a few among many players represented by them.