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Cian Healy cited for biting

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    #182
    Burgo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    Great news that he is cleared, but gutted for him that he has to come home.


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    #183
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Sad state of affairs when some on an Irish Rugby thread are not wanting justice but a guilty verdict.
    FFS get back to your junior cert studying.


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    #184
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Shown my true colours? You make it sound as if I have been hiding them. Considering what happened to BOD on a Lions tour and now potentially Healy could be out for awhile I'm not really sure why any Irish fan is delighted to see these teams packed full of Irish players. As a rugby fan I enjoy the Lions tours, as an Irish fan I am more than happy to see less Irish players(especially Munster ones) on tour and having a nice rest before next season.

    Fewer players.

    This excuse doesn't make sense, you were clearly anti Healy, and are now opposed to the tournament. But old school rugby players and commentators love the Lions tour, it is second only to the WC.


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    #185
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,095 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Burgo wrote: »
    Great news that he is cleared, but gutted for him that he has to come home.

    he has to come home???


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    #186
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Buer wrote: »
    Ah you have to understand the mindset of Chucky. He only show up when things are going badly in Irish rugby to criticise. He won't be seen for months on end and then Ireland lose or one of the provinces lose a big game or there's a contentious incident and he comes out to rejoice. It's a well worn pattern at this point that provides much amusement.


    lol. I'd be hear all the time if that were the case.
    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Fewer players.

    This excuse doesn't make sense, you were clearly anti Healy, and are now opposed to the tournament. But old school rugby players and commentators love the Lions tour, it is second only to the WC.


    What excuse? For a while I haven't been hugely fond of the tournament. I also never claimed old school players or commentators didn't like the Lions tour.


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    #187
    decisions
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭decisions


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    he has to come home???

    The injury, he said it himself on Facebook.


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    #188
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,095 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    healys response

    http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/lions-tour/cian-healy-i-was-very-disappointed-to-be-cited-i-did-nothing-wrong-29327446.html
    "I am very relieved that the hearing has cleared me of such an allegation," he said.
    "I was naturally very disappointed that there was a citing in the first place.
    "I always maintained that nothing happened and that I had done nothing illegal. The opposition player's arm hit me. It is as simple as that.
    "The support I had from the management and all the lads was wonderful, and I am glad that it is all over."


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    #189
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    he has to come home???

    He left the immersion on.

    Or the ankle. Probably the ankle.


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    #190
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,095 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    there was reports he walked into the citing hearing.....

    gutted for him if his injury rules him out.


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    #191
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    there was reports he walked into the citing hearing.....

    gutted for him if his injury rules him out.

    He did. Photos of him going in unaided. But scan might have shown ligament damage that is going to take a month to heal. Might be able to walk gingerly now but would never be able to play a high pace rugby match, if that was the case.


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    #192
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    there was reports he walked into the citing hearing.....

    gutted for him if his injury rules him out.



    He did, but he had a huge protective boot on.


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    #193
    For Paws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭For Paws


    Delighted, 'though not surprised by decision to clear.
    But can't get rid of the suspicion that Sheehan set to to get Healy in trouble.

    Can the citing commission comment on the nature of an accusation if it might be deemed questionable at best ?


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    #194
    padser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    Noopti wrote: »
    Justice served, obviously there wasn't any extra evidence apart from the the very suspect accusation.

    Delighted.

    I didn't realize that citings only had to be upheld "on the balance of probabilities"


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    #195
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    For Paws wrote: »
    Delighted, 'though not surprised by decision to clear.
    But can't get rid of the suspicion that Sheehan set to to get Healy in trouble.

    Can the citing commission comment on the nature of an accusation if it might be deemed questionable at best ?

    This was a bullsh1t citing from minute one. zero evidence and clearly an over reaction from Sheehan. Delighted Healy was cleared, just hope his tour isnt over....


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    #196
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    toomevara wrote: »
    This was a bullsh1t citing from minute one. zero evidence and clearly an over reaction from Sheehan. Delighted Healy was cleared, just hope his tour isnt over....

    Whatever you do...do not read any other threads.


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    #197
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Sheehan should be pretty ashamed of himself all things considered


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    #198
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Sheehan should be pretty ashamed of himself all things considered

    what?!

    If Sheehan felt Healy's teeth on his arm, he obviously would think he was bitten, and absolutely should say so.

    His head is in a collapsing tackle situation, he can't judge intent.

    This isn't a "Healy bit him he is scum OR Sheehan is lying he is scum" situation. There's an awful awful lot of middle ground between the two.

    The citing commission takes the events and rules on them. A citing doesn't and certainly shouldn't instantly imply guilty! And likewise, an 'unsuccesful' citing shouldn't mean that there were false accusations.


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    #199
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Deleted User wrote: »
    what?!

    If Sheehan felt Healy's teeth on his arm, he obviously would think he was bitten, and absolutely should say so.

    His head is in a collapsing tackle situation, he can't judge intent.

    This isn't a "Healy bit him he is scum OR Sheehan is lying he is scum" situation. There's an awful awful lot of middle ground between the two.

    The citing commission takes the events and rules on them. A citing doesn't and certainly shouldn't instantly imply guilty! And likewise, an 'unsuccesful' citing shouldn't mean that there were false accusations.


    But I think it's pretty damn easy to know if you've been bitten on purpose or not, Sheehan even changed his tune at half time but you've got a point, maybe I'm being harsh but I'd imagine it would be easily to determine if someone was purposefully biting you as opposed to you hand coming into contact with the mouth area


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    #200
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    what?!

    If Sheehan felt Healy's teeth on his arm, he obviously would think he was bitten, and absolutely should say so.

    There was no bite mark on Sheahan's skin as per the ruling. An arm coming in contact with teeth and being bitten are two very different things. If you are bitten, you know all about it and have the marks to prove it. In the heat of the moment, I can understand how he may have thought it but I'm sure he knows himself when there was no bite mark on reflection. Once it's brought to attention, it was going to be cited. There's no report of Sheahan joining via video conference or attempting to put balance on the situation as part of the hearing though.


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    #201
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Anyone wondering why the last page has been taken up with backtracking need look no further :
    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    He's done. He can ring Dylan Hartley and ask for advice on how to deal with it.


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    #202
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Buer wrote: »
    There was no bite mark on Sheahan's skin as per the ruling. An arm coming in contact with teeth and being bitten are two very different things. If you are bitten, you know all about it and have the marks to prove it. In the heat of the moment, I can understand how he may have thought it but I'm sure he knows himself when there was no bite mark on reflection.

    Exactly, exactly, exactly the same issue as the POC incident that was swept under the rug.

    If foul / dangerous / unsportsmanlike play occurs, then a citing should follow.
    The intent is not up to the citing commissioner to rule on.

    The citing commission can easily mitigate / dismiss an event under complete accident / zero intent etc, but that doesn't at any stage enter into the act of citing a player.

    Likewise, a player should definitely draw attention to an act of perceived foul play if it would be otherwise missed.


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    #203
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Anyone wondering why the last page has been taken up with backtracking need look no further :



    Still not sure where the back-tracking is. I'm surprised Healy got off.


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    #204
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Still not sure where the back-tracking is. I'm surprised Healy got off.

    Why? Because you wanted him to be punished?:rolleyes:


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    #205
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Why? Because you wanted him to be punished?:rolleyes:



    If he did it then of course I did. I don't suffer from green eyes like yourself.


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    #206
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,184 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Exactly, exactly, exactly the same issue as the POC incident that was swept under the rug.

    If foul / dangerous / unsportsmanlike play occurs, then a citing should follow.
    The intent is not up to the citing commissioner to rule on.

    The citing commission can easily mitigate / dismiss an event under complete accident / zero intent etc, but that doesn't at any stage enter into the act of citing a player.

    Likewise, a player should definitely draw attention to an act of perceived foul play if it would be otherwise missed.

    And, as I've said, it should have been cited t be examined. That's not under argument at all. But Sheahan had time to consider the situation. He made a statement to both the citing commissioner and his governing rugby union neither of which contained any mitigation or suggestion of it being a non-event (which, by all evidence, it seems to have been).

    So yes, I'd say Sheahan comes off badly. He incorrectly accused a player of biting him. That happens. When he had time to reflect and see there's little or no evidence, it appears he stuck to his story and said he was bitten.


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    #207
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    If he did it then of course I did. I don't suffer from green eyes like yourself.

    But he didn't do it? So why can't you just admit you were wrong about stating so matter of fact that "he's done" rather than backtracking and saying things like "I'm surprised he got off" (which is utter nonsense considering none of us could be surprised with anything considering the lack of footage of the incident)


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    #208
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    trouttrout wrote: »
    But he didn't do it? So why can't you just admit you were wrong about stating so matter of fact that "he's done" rather than backtracking and saying things like "I'm surprised he got off" (which is utter nonsense considering none of us could be surprised with anything considering the lack of footage of the incident)


    Because the lack of footage has nothing to do with it. There has been plenty of other people cited and found guilty with little to no TV/camera footage available. but players have been done because of doctors testimony, other players etc. I had no access to those. It's rare for a player to be cited and then be cleared, that's why I was surprised he was cleared. I'd the say the % of citing that have been cleared is very very small.


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    #209
    prospect
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭prospect


    RTE reporting that Healys tour is over:

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/lions-tour/2013/0607/455089-healy/


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    #210
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Because the lack of footage has nothing to do with it. There has been plenty of other people cited and found guilty with little to no TV/camera footage available. but players have been done because of doctors testimony, other players etc. I had no access to those. It's rare for a player to be cited and then be cleared, that's why I was surprised he was cleared. I'd the say the % of citing that have been cleared is very very small.

    Right so maybe next time hold of on condemning a player when you haven't a notion about what happened


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    #211
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    trouttrout wrote: »
    Right so maybe next time hold of on condemning a player when you haven't a notion about what happened


    Bit rich...

    trouttrout wrote: »
    Sheehan should be pretty ashamed of himself all things considered


This discussion has been closed.
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