Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773721#Comment_121773721

in Dublin the number of operators have a critical mass to counterbalance any "one" dominant player.

At the smaller airports Ryanair would have the ability to leverage their critical mass.

This power gives them disproportionate advantage which they have previously shown little hesitancy in exercising to their benefit.

Karppi

One thing about DUB which I find interesting is that there are two big airlines operating there. IMO, most airports of similar or larger size tend to have one dominant airline or, in the case of airports slightly smaller, a whole basket load of airlines all contributing to the mix.

So it’s a duopoly, if you will. I’d imagine it’s hard to get consensus on development strategy, because the smaller carriers will probably not have a lot of say, and it would take some effort to get Ryanair and Aer Lingus aligned.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773110#Comment_121773110

Ryanair is a bit of a double edged sword for regional airports, while it does keep some other potential operators out but on the whole the regional airports have been far more successful under Ryanair. There is no way they would have anything close to the current volumes without Ryanair.

Ryanair can make routes viable that nobody else would even consider operating.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121774364#Comment_121774364

Aer Lingus and Ryanair are actually fairly aligned on a lot of Dublin airport issues, particularly charges. They do differ on some things though.

I’d say the likes of Emirates, Delta, American, Lufthansa/Swiss do have some input into DAA planning too.

Karppi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775450#Comment_121775450

You’re right, EI & FR are aligned on charges - the less, the better. But their shopping lists are very different. And introducing differential charges could be a slippery slope for the DAA. The other carriers you mention have some input but it’s mainly to do with facilities they pay for directly, such as lounges, checkin desks, etc.

Tenger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769244#Comment_121769244

Why not develop both?

There is nothing to stop investment outside airport as well as investment in Dublin. Being "pro-Dublin" doesn't mean you want nothing outside Dublin.

On paper we are a wealthy nation. Unfortunately we are also a nation with a political class/civil service who are seemingly incapable of carrying out strategic planning in a similar manner to otger EU nations.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775669#Comment_121775669

The nature of the Irish electoral system means that the horizon for any Government is at most five years and often a lot less. Ministers direct what the civil service is to prioritise and for the most part it is the fairly short-term stuff. I could go on but won't.

AnRothar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121775669#Comment_121775669

We have had 2 aviation strategy documents since about 2008.

The first discussed regional development.

The more recent one simply said Dublin.

Kermit.de.frog

Headline on Independent

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-airport-global-airlines-threaten-to-pull-flights-in-row-over-passenger-cap/a1931580029.html

This stupidity is a clear threat to the economy.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778755#Comment_121778755

Ah sure as long as the north Dublin residents get a good sleep, so what. 🤦‍♂️

ULEZ23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778755#Comment_121778755

The stupidity of that article and submission is clear from this statement

“The group’s warning that the entire Irish economy is on the line is echoed by multiple airlines and business lobbies ahead of the update, due shortly from Fingal planners, on their assessment of DAA’s application.”

all credibility of their submission is out the window with a crazy claim like that. Why make a claim like that, 90% of people support the lifting of the cap, it seriously undermines their credibility as a lobby group.

sandbelter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778770#Comment_121778770

Nope, the airport is all about supply chains....the number of direct destinations reduces trading costs, it facilities trade and directly supports economic growth.

In 2019 there were 143,000 jobs directly dependant on airports (5% of the national labour force) ...Dublin overwhelmingly contributes the bulk of this. What the article is referring to is there are additional jobs indirectly dependant on the airport as their employers they work for ship by air. These jobs are also at risk.

Here is IATA's research on the direct impact airport has on Ireland and how they came to a figure of 143,000 Irish jobs directly impacted: www.iata.org/en/iata-repository/publications/economic-reports/ireland--value-of-aviation/

There's a lot at stake here.

lisasimpson

I love the ignorance and snobbery towards the regionals airports that appears every so often here. In fairness for them Cork and Shannon had good 2023 by their standards all be it Shannon coming off a really low base. It's a pity Shannon seems to have stalled in 2024 so for with new routes unlike Cork or even kerry

Cork to be fair has had some success in attracting and keeping airlines other than airlines and Ryanair. It should hit 3 million this year

Most people that look for expansion of services from them usually are reasonable. Yes you will have ones shouting for unrealistic routes from them. I've said it before they can complament Dublin Airport. Galway, Limerick and Cork are growing cities so footfall is there. The big bug bare for regionals is summer routes don't run for full season of of march to Oct. Many only start end of May early June. I rather the local TD and business groups would work together to help make it easier for the catchment areas to use the regionals rather than jumping on easy headlines of dublins issues. Like improve public transport options, better marketing of routes. When I lived in Cork if I used Cork airport to fly somewhere option people did release the option was there. Its like if its not ryanair or airlingus it didn't exist.

All said I do believe the Dublin cap situation is crazy and needs to be resolved ASAP

Karppi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779169#Comment_121779169

The big bug bare for regionals is summer routes don't run for full season of of march to Oct

I'm afraid that they don't run for the full summer season because the demand just isn't there. Marketing the routes might help, but will be marginal. And improving transport links is expensive and unlikely to be profitable, so there's no real additional traffic in that, either. Sorry, it's just a fact.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778755#Comment_121778755

whose responsible for this criticial economic decision?

eamon ryan (Green TD) ?

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779697#Comment_121779697

Fingal County Council, a number of whom are Green Party members. So although it’s not his decision, he no doubt has influence in it.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779697#Comment_121779697

If you had any awareness of what's going on and which is public knowledge, the cap is because of Fingal Co Council's planning decision of many years ago, and which was over the topand incoherent. Not Eamon Ryan's fault (unfortunately! 🙂).

The incoherence pf the planners is manifest in that opening a new runway (for which FCC gave permission) lead to a reduction in permitted flight operations at certain hours.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778755#Comment_121778755

Article and its contents being described by some greens as “corporate bullying” now.

ULEZ23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778940#Comment_121778940

I am not disputing the importance of Dublin airport. Again I do not support the cap, I have never supported the cap.

The lobby group said the ENTIRE IRISH ECONOMY IS ON THE LINE. No credible sane person can agree this is correct. When someone says something as crazy as that then I mistrust everything else they say.

it’s crazy that so many posters agree with the above statement. It’s absolutely flabbergasting that this forum cannot have a mature conversation on this topic.

It’s genuinely like talking to an American about politics. Posters are so binary, it’s a very sad reflection of modern society that people are no longer willing to listen, instead their mind is made up and their cause is always 100% right about everything.

sandbelter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781509#Comment_121781509

I also note you support the removal of the cap, so we are essentially in agreement about its effect.

I just want to state it's you right to be skeptical, whether you choose to believe the informed opinions of business is your choice. No one is taking that way from you but that doesn't make them wrong.

I'd point out, we are at a similar point in time as occurred next door with the Brexit debate, when businesses raised their inconvenient concerns about Brexit...Boris Johnson reportedly retorted "f**k business", and they were ignored.

Five years late the consequences to the UK's economy of that message are real and plain to see.

Dublin airport is a key part of our logistics network, it's trade facilitator and in its role as a transatlantic hub, and a source of Tourism revenue and ultimately tax revenue. Nothing here happens in a vacuum.

If there's going to be a winner here if the cap is retained it's going to be either Belfast or Manchester airports.

As, Ireland is horrendously expensive, and both are at a lower price point.

The cap on Dublin's air traffic is about opting out of the growth of trade and has the potential to turn Ireland into a cul-de-sac, businesses as general rule don't raise concerns due to "retaliation", but when they do ......and are making a reasonable point they should be listened to.

Dismissing business concerns because they are an "inconvenient truth" is what the Brexiters did, it didn't go well for them.

Finally, this is an aviation thread and I don't want it digressing into a political thread.

,

dublin12367

The latest from fingal. Absolutely ridiculous. Intervention needed. https://planningapi.agileapplications.ie/api/application/document/FG/907640

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783387#Comment_121783387

So because you don’t agree you want the government to intervene and bypass the law with regards to planning?

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783409#Comment_121783409

Government can move quickly according to Eamon Ryan to reduce car use in the city centre after it goes to cabinet in the coming weeks, benefiting no one, well then they can intervene quickly to protect vital NATIONAL infrastructure and protect future jobs and investment.

daa have 6 months to respond with the requested documents to fingal so we are talking nearly a year since the application was submitted to Fingal before we even get a decision from Fingal on it. Not even taking into account this will go to appeal to ABP after Finglas decision.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783723#Comment_121783723

Government can’t intervene in planning applications by law.

This is basic primary school stuff.

Qaanaaq

Meanwhile, Manchester is planning for a doubling of passengers by 2040 to 55-60m. This is what Dublin is competing with. Anybody who thinks capped traffic will simply just go to Shannon instead is not being realistic.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/business-news/new-images-shows-possible-high-10582851

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783810#Comment_121783810

Really ? There's zero, none, not a hope of any airline adding flights at airports other than Dublin ever and even suggesting so is grounds for the loony bin ?

IngazZagni

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783891#Comment_121783891

How on earth did you jump to that conclusion? Dublin competes with other large airports and cities like Manchester, Glasgow, Porto, Milan etc. The regional airports compete with other regional airports across Europe like Cardiff, Liverpool, Genoa, Billund etc. They go were the demand is. The next airport with the biggest demand probably isn't Cork or Shannon (it might be) but more likely somewhere else.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783387#Comment_121783387

This link isn't working now (for me, anyway).

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783916#Comment_121783916

Not sure why that is. If you go the infrastructure application on Fingals website it’s there under documents. Chief Executive order and press view. Dated the 16/02/2024.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783891#Comment_121783891

I never said that. They will grow in their own right just like they do today.