Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

dublin12367

Fingal County Council have issued a warning letter to the daa dated the 22/02 alleged unauthorised development and breach of 32 million passenger cap between Jan 2023 and Dec 2023 according to one user on X. Can’t see any source of where he seen this letter or any evidence of this letter myself but if true, ridiculous carry on from Fingal and bowing to the few nimbys. One would think Fingal have set a precedent by not issuing similar for 2019 passenger figures.

moonshy2022

Deleted

Qaanaaq

Still no low cloud landings on the new runway 10L is seems

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836369#Comment_121836369

I think single ops currently are more to do with severe congestion on the taxi ways and some aircraft are now holding on the north runway while they wait for their gate.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833986#Comment_121833986

Isnt the solution to just fly the path that they always said they would. Problem solved. Noone can complain then.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833583#Comment_121833583

why isnt the decisions making simply removed from local government, immediately? what when the 40m cap is hit nearly instantly after its introduced, start this entire farce again and go up to 50 million?

Bussywussy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836440#Comment_121836440

The residents can't complain now, they are flying the path outlined in a change years ago. The could of made a submission then. Tough.

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836487#Comment_121836487

You would hope as soon as the 40 million application is approved in full that the daa will have learnt their lesson from this and be straight in with another application to increase it to 50m or even look at the idea of T3. A lot to be learned from this current situation.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121837586#Comment_121837586

The application that they have put in covers a range of individual projects (eleven, I think the FCC said) and it's not just a "raise the cap" proposal. Arguably, as the cap idea is something that the local authority came up with and is quite flawed, the DAA should seek to have the concept done away with altogether and have further capital proposals assessed in therir own right rather than against the somewhat arbitrary cap idea.

x567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836460#Comment_121836460

Part of your post is borderline slanderous. You should perhaps be more careful what you post...

dublin12367

An absolute bizzare question on my part so I do apologise if it comes across as stupid as it sounds but regarding the ABP case with the night flight limit, operating times etc, could ABP grant both the extended operating hours of the north runway and the removal of the 65 night cap and add a condition that deems the current capacity of runway and airport infrastructure with this increase at say 35 million, therefore over riding the previous 32m cap all while fingal examine the current infrastructure application.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121839044#Comment_121839044

No.

Bussywussy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838986#Comment_121838986

🤣🤣🤣 Ryan is a clown

Karppi

The challenge for any airport is to increase capacity in a timely way across all the processors. In an ideal world, the throughput of an airport is balanced across all the processors - there is no “weak link” in the chain. NB this never happens!

Simplistically, you can have major headings of

• Surface Access
• Terminal Capacity
• Airfield Capacity
• Runway Capacity
• Airspace Capacity

Each of these has numerous sub-systems; for example take Terminal

• Kerbside set down
• Spacial issues in departure hall
• Checkin desks
• Security processing
• Baggage Handling system
• Gates
• etc

Providing incremental capacity results in small step changes (say, adding security lanes or replacing scanners to increase throughput) and has the benefit of smoothing investment

For many years in the first decade of this century, it was terminal capacity that was the constraint. Remember 23+m pax per year going through T1? It was like a cattle market. T2 opened and that constraint went away. (Unfortunately, it coincided with the financial crash!) But T2 added huge capacity, at a substantial cost. Airport development is “lumpy” - once you’ve run out of incremental improvements, significant investment is needed

Once traffic started to build again, the airfield (stands etc) and the runway became the limiting factors. The opening of 28R/10L - if unconstrained by planning - would basically double the runway throughput to well over 80 movements/hour

So, after this rather longwinded post, my point it is illogical to cap movements by constraints such as the sledgehammer of 32 mppa.

Idbatterim

Listen 32 million could walk to dublin airport and the cap would remain.... that's how obscene the situation is... its there simply based on a figure they picked out of their ass in relation to capacity on the local road network...

Irish Steve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834115#Comment_121834115

All I am going by is a public meeting in Ashbourne in recent weeks where a lengthy discussion about the Milan metro system was presented, and they built 120 Km of metro on time and on budget, for a fraction of the costs that were being talked about for Dublin Metro, and in half the time that was originally being proposed by other groups, but it was done by private public partnership schemes, the people who were involved have been trying to get in to see Ryan to discuss why Ireland is going to spend over double the money for a fraction of what Milan has got working in half the time, but he refuses to even meet them, hence my comments, the people who are involved are not head cases, but clearly, they are proposing something that would upset the apple cart here, so rather than find out if it does have merit, the simple solution is to pretend it doesn't exist.

Any time I have tried to get a response out of Ryan, the inevitable response is that it's not part of his remit, even though it's transport that's affected, and there comes a point where you have to recognise that he is not doing the job, and passing the buck to another unfortunate who is most likely to do exactly the same, and when it comes down to it, no one is ever responsible or accountable, and that's why so many things in this country are in the mess they are.

markpb

Whatever about the merits of an alternative build, no minister is going to seriously entertain a meeting like that at this stage of the project. Ministers set strategic goals or directions for their department and the civil service or public service are tasked with executing them. In this case, the minister has directed that a metro in Dublin should be investigated. TII are working through a process of making that happen. If someone has a suggestion about how to build it, that needed to go to TII during public consultation or to AbP during the oral hearing.

There’s a good reason for that. Ministers are elected to represent the public. They are not expected to be experts in tunnel boring, cycle lanes, motorway operations or anything else. That’s why they have a huge staff who can also hire experts to help them.

If you’re contacting any minister privately and being told it’s not their remit, that reply is coming from a professional public servant who knows exactly what the minister and departments role is and what it isn’t. Thats not passing the buck - it’s the way the system works.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840364#Comment_121840364

Again, the Minister's job is to formulate policy, secure funding and getting cabinet approval with regard to public transport.

The job of actually implementing the policy through the development of the transport strategy and then the design, construction and management of our public transport infrastructure is the remit of the National Transport Authority and Transport Infrastructure Ireland who are the transport and engineering professionals. They are the ones responsible for the rollout of the policy.

Metrolink is at An Bord Pleanala stage. As markpb says, no Minister for Transport is going to suddenly interfere with that by meeting people who are suggesting a completely different approach.

From a public transport perspective, Eamon Ryan has managed to get Metrolink, two DART+ projects and twelve BusConnects infrastructure corridors through cabinet approval to proceed to An Bord Pleanala, and they are now starting to come out of ABP (two bus corridors so far) and should all come out of that stage during this year, leading to construction hopefully starting on some of the projects in 2025. He has also secured funding for six phases of BusConnects new bus network in Dublin so far, and a large expansion of public bus services through the Connecting Ireland project all across the country. That suggests to me that he is actually delivering.

As for the people involved at that meeting, Cormac Rabbitt has been a serial promoter of public transport ideas around Dublin that have never seen the light of day. He is most definitely one of the "paper never refused ink" brigade.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840364#Comment_121840364

Is this the same Milan metro? One quote from this 2023 article is

"Originally planned for completion in 2015, planning, financial and construction delays have now put the estimated completion of the overall project to be sometime next year."

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/eight-of-21-stations-now-open-on-milans-1-5bn-new-underground-metro-line-06-07-2023/

prunudo

I'd always be weary of 'experts' brought to public meetings, you have to queation if they're independent or rolled out to boost the organiser's opinion and view point.

davebuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840670#Comment_121840670

Actually delivering are you serious or having a laugh? FFS the proposed Metro surface access into T1 + T2 at the airport the local TDs all bullshixxxxxs about their local stations!! Ryan is useless the sooner he's gone the better the only shame is the pension he'll get for sleeping at the office...

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121843792#Comment_121843792

Again, he is not responsible for the design. That literally is nothing to do with him.

His job is to get the project through cabinet at each funding stage.

The detailed design work is the job of the NTA and in this case TII, who put together the railway order application, which subsequently anyone can to object to through An Bord Pleanala as they consider it.

ABP decided to hold an oral hearing for the Metrolink railway order application and are currently going through that process. Anyone who made a submission to ABP on the railway order is entitled to make a submission to the oral hearing. It doesn’t necessarily follow that ABP are going to pay any heed to all of the objections, especially the more vexatious ones.

Every major public transport infrastructure project is now at the An Bord Pleanala stage or coming out of it.

Like many people you seem to be conflating the responsibilities of the Minister and the other bodies, and making two and two equal three just because you dislike the man. I, like many, find him an atrocious speaker, but I’m looking at where the projects are in the process.

Regarding the airport stop design, did you object to the detailed design during the consultations or to ABP at railway order application stage? That was the time to do it, not now on an internet board!

davebuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121844227#Comment_121844227

I actual don't like or dislike the man as I don't know him, but he was well able to interfere in the Shannon LNG propsed with ABP and comment on the metro timelines re planning and now claiming he can't interfere in planning matters over DAA... He's a public well paid politician and minister for transport so he's open for scrutiny regardless of your opinion! I can't accept your view that literally is nothing to do with him! again he's in government in transport

Quote : His job is to get the project through cabinet at each funding stage.

Time will tell on this statement as no government has a good record on delivering major projects to date.

Regarding the airport stop design, did you object to the detailed design during the consultations or to ABP at railway order application stage? That was the time to do it, not now on an internet board!

No i didn't but surely the travelling experience would be better with and underground route to the metro stop from both terminals not requiring surface access, maybe the route will be protected from the elements?

G_R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846247#Comment_121846247

It may well be, but that's not the point - changing anything now will delay it by months/years. You'll also then have people saying, well since you're changing x, we may as well change y, delaying it further. If it's something you feel strongly about the time to raise it was during one of the rounds of public consultation.

The approach taken to the entire was save money and simplify design wherever possible, which is likely why the airport station has been designed as it is. I'm sure Dublin Airport will install a covering over the walkway if one isn't planned - they have one over the walkways to the busses, car parks and between terminals etc.

davebuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121846290#Comment_121846290

I agree and I'm not looking to change anything now as planning would only be pushed back years but for such a long lasting project it's a pity to be trying to get it done on the cheap if that is the case. Anyhow you're entitled to your opinion as I am too!

DublinKev

Single runway ops again this morning on 10R, and it's not even that bad a day. Hard to understand this.

I understand in the worst of weather that the new runway may not be certified yet for full operation (CAT number whatever it is) but over 18 months on from the opening of the new runway and this situation is still arising. Surely this is just putting more pressure on the controllers, seems very inefficient to me, how long does it take to certify a new runway?

sparrowcar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847974#Comment_121847974

An IAA discussion thread is long overdue where the likes of above could be discussed.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121847974#Comment_121847974

If there is even a sniff of low cloud, its not available for landing. At this stage its nearly open 2 years and still not approved. I can't think of any other airport that took this long to get approval.

dublin12367

What’s happening on the south apron near the old airport rd? Looks like a lot of digging work going on. Are they prepping the area to be ready to go as soon as the infrastructure application is approved?

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121857786#Comment_121857786

Maybe part of the solar farm plan? The field/s where the panels themselves will be located is at the far west end of the airport, south of the R108 road.