Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783913#Comment_121783913

If I need to go to Dublin, I'm not going to say "Lets go to Porto" but a flight to Shannon might do me if I want to go to Birr

I'm the same "demand" whether I land in Dublin or Shannon

davetherave

https://planning.agileapplications.ie/fingal/application-details/96644#conditions

You can see the conditions/request for more information here. It's not letting me view any of the documents either, just comes back with file not found regardless of browser and application site.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783986#Comment_121783986

Similar happened for me today when trying to view dlrcoco planning documents. Must be an issue on the website providers end, as it looks like both councils use the same planning portal.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121779198#Comment_121779198

Id argue if the demand is there in Dublin, the demand exists in Cork. For lots of routes, people travel up from Munster to Dublin as the routes are there. No reason that can't happen the opposite direction.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784054#Comment_121784054

But I remember reading that Emirates want to add a 3rd daily flight in Dublin. Can a runway in Cork take a B777/A350?

IngazZagni

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783981#Comment_121783981

You're not getting it. Dublin has higher demand than the regional areas. Much higher demand. The airlines have a lot of data at their disposal to show this. Yes there are plenty that come up to Dublin from Cork but they only compliment the already high demand creating a critical mass to allow for multiple daily flights.

Almost half of the people using Dublin are tourists coming to Ireland and Dublin normally is on their itinerary. Also Shannon and Cork are only 2 and a half hours away. That's nothing. Ireland for its population probably has too many airports.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784054#Comment_121784054

If the demand is there then why aren't airlines operating more flights? They are free to do so. Artificially suppressing supply to Dublin is idiotic and thinking all that potential future Dublin growth will just go to the regional shows a complete lack of understanding how the industry works. Supply can go anywhere else in Europe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784151#Comment_121784151

Definitely not. At least a good chunk of the time and if it can't do it 99% of the time then that won't work.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783981#Comment_121783981

Not really sure what you are try to say there.

so let’s take a look at a few stats to try and put this in perspective.

looking at the cso numbers for Dublin the growth is about 3 million per year. So we now have a cap in place so where is that growth going to go?

cork is growing at about 100,000 per year except 2023 which was around 500k.

Shannon is a bit more up and down but still seems to be able to sustain 100k growth per year in a good year.

so let’s say for all the airports in the republic put together including knock and Kerry, there is about a 4 million annual growth for the entire country.

so now in 2024 where is that 4 million growth going to go? Will Shannon and Cork take a huge jump or will they stay within their current growth expectations. Or will that 3 mil growth go to other hubs outside the island, such as Manchester etc?

will the total growth in Ireland drop from 4mil to 1mil in 2024. I guess we need to revisit this thread in Feb 2025 to see what happens

lisasimpson

There is another airport in munster that could though.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784151#Comment_121784151

No but not really the flights we're looking at here. If we're just talking flights moving from May to March as a start, we're looking at some Ryanair flights and the Aer Lingus flight to Dubrovnik. No reason some of those can't be used out of Cork instead of Dublin.

Like for Aer Lingus, they want extra slots for flights to the US so why couldn't they just bring some slots they use for European flights to Cork and free them up in Dublin where they're capped.

People can travel down to fly from Cork like.

lisasimpson

Physically Shannon could take Emirates as it doesn't have the limitations of Cork. And given the new demographics in the country as a whole as well as Irish in aus new Zealand, UAE, and the amount of conferences, sporting events now in the Arab states well it wouldn't be the maddest of thing a few times a week

In 2020 Shannon had announced a summer route to Toronato. Would love to see them get another shot at that.

Would love for one of munster airports get a go at Lisbon too. Potential traffic both sides not just Irish holidaying there but also as a hub to South America (again given changing face of demographics)

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785057#Comment_121785057

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785003#Comment_121785003

How many times does it have to be explained of why both of these won’t work?

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785003#Comment_121785003

I was replying to Titan18 who referenced cork. Everyone knows Shannon has a longer runway, but I only asked about Cork as Titan 18 mentioned it.

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785057#Comment_121785057

Because a good percentage of those on European flights are connecting onwards to the USA (and vice-versa).

trellheim

There is little limitation on operating shorthaul out of Cork (weather aside) and longhaul out of Shannon as well

That's not in debate here. The only serious notion is whether a shorthaul (max Canaries let's say) moved 320 or 738 can be utilized to normal load factors out of Cork or Shannon instead of Dublin . If the cap remains then that's the only serious road forward for expansion

If someone set up an Easyjet out of Cork to Lanzarote and Alicante tomorrow for the summer [ assuming FR don't flood it ] are people saying no-one would get on it and it wouldn't make money ?

NITRO95

I love that the same argument has to be relitigated time and time again because people constantly have to say "Well it's not all about Dublin" despite it being pointed out dozens of times that in this instance it is and has to be all about Dublin.

If airlines wanted to fly to Shannon or Cork or Knock or Donegal they would but they aren't because they have the information at hand that shows them there is no market there for it.

And for clarity I don't live or work in Dublin.

lisasimpson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785113#Comment_121785113

And how many times can it be said country is changing. Changing demographics, more Irish go east globally to work than west now, changes in world economies changes in where global money changes hand compared to 25/30 years ago. If Shannon can sustain a number of flights in the US then wouldn't be outside the relaims of possibilities a hub east in the next 10 years or so. We have a serious growth in Indian nationals here in recent year. Many in v well paid jobs who can afford to travel home for family events, festivals etc. Many companies here have outsourcing operations in India, Philippines etc so there is business travel there for due delignace etc, seconments etc.Also India is in the top 5 of global economies and expected to climb in the ranking so there is going to be more opportunities there. Then not to mention Irish travelling for leisure either honeymoon destinations or simply people going visiting family members and friends in UAE.

But needs support as I've stated previously don't need expensive rail just bus connections or dare I say it if the M20 ever gets done. Marketing f routes needs to improve for the regionals. V frustrating to see my local airport ie shannon promoting a pizza franchise recently than routes

Its not a case robbing or hurting Dublin but more of a complament instead allowing Dublin to grow other routes that are realistically non runners to the regions. Cork can and should be able to serve Europe better too. Think for far too long the regions and Dublin are seen as competition to each other which hasn't helped anyone. There is room for all. Dublin needs the regionals performing well along with the increase in passenger cap to continue to grow in the future

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785556#Comment_121785556

Not looking for an argumentLS, but where’s your proof about the east v west excursions? I’m not saying you are wrong but there’s a lot now who go south: Brazil, Argentina, Africa too. None of the aforementioned countries are served direct from Ireland, so an intermediary is necessary. And as we speak, the ME3 are the main suppliers.

lisasimpson

All you have to do it look at where Irish 20 and 30 somethings head. I a few post up I did cover south by mentioning a Lisbon route. TAP have gone on record that the dublin Lisbon is one of their most profitable. So possibility of a market outside of Dublin. Some of the hubs in Europe like Amsterdam would serve some of the African business

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785937#Comment_121785937

There are 3 airlines serving Lisboa, but onward to South America & certain African countries it has to be TAP. Why are they not landing in Cork or Shannon I ask? There can be only one answer - no demand.

lisasimpson

And where is your proof there is no demand? Plenty in Cork would love Lisbon back. Aer Lingus did serve it years ago summer season and that would have been before the demographics changes. Even Shannon has manged to hold on Porto which wouldn't have as big a draw as Lisbon

Are you in denial that regionals could and should be preforming better to allow Dublin to grow long haul potential. Outside of Dublin and the commenter belts we do like to travel as well

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786028#Comment_121786028

The proof for me is in the fact there are no flights to Lisbon from Cork or Shannon. I just googled and the answer I got was KLM via Amsterdam.

Anyhow others have also stated about the lack of demand, so I’ll rest my case now.

lisasimpson

How many of them are from the muster south leinster region. Its v narrow minded their no flight so must be no demand. Demand changes all the time due to various reasons. Just coz no demand 15 yrs ago doesn't mean it hasn't changed.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786087#Comment_121786087

So can you please explain why, in your view, LIS isn't served other than from Dublin (from where there are multiple daily services year-round)?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786087#Comment_121786087

Do you honestly think you know better than Aer Lingus, Ryanair, etc. do, as to where they should put their aircraft to maximise profits???

moonshy2022

Could a seperate topic be opened for people who want to argue over and over again again about “Why not Shannon or Cork ?!” please.

for the love of god this is brain melting having to read.

NITRO95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786842#Comment_121786842

Boards don't want to open them as the traffic just isn't there for it. Much better use of clicks to keep them in the Dublin topic

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787244#Comment_121787244

Yeah the Dublin thread would have to help it out by sending some posters to it as it wouldn't be able to stand up without support.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121786842#Comment_121786842

If the cap remains what do you think should happen ?

With a Green Party minister for transport in the 12 months before an election ?

The other airports aside for a moment, serious question, Given the Green Party's aims, do you think the Minister (who is all that really matters) will wish to retain the cap ? Every TD will be starting now to look for votes, and extra overflights wont win many votes in Fingal

In addition the Fingal Co Co local chair is a Green Party councillor (swords etc). The mayor is FF.

Paul2019

Politicians meddling in aviation is very bad news indeed but we have here an unholy alliance between Green Politicians, NIMBYs, Rural Ireland Whingers and an ignorant media that would stir up any crisis for the sake of a few clicks.

That notorious economic drain on the Irish economy known as the "Shannon Stopover" took 50 years to get rid of. The media were extremely supportive of that ruinous policy right up until just before it was abolished.

Are we seriously looking to revisit that kind of nonsense again?

Airlines are already free to serve Cork, Shannon, Knock, Waterford, Donegal and Kerry if they want to.

Airports at Manchester, London, Amsterdam, Paris Zurich and Frankfurt all benefited from Ireland's attempt to force airlines to use Shannon.

Do we really need to relearn this lesson the hard way?

PS Here's a quote about this passenger cap from the poster Dobbodobbo on the Manchester thread on another forum:

"How on earth can it take years to lift what I understand to be in effect a restriction related to a planning permission on what is on any view a pretty major source of national wealth for the RoI?! "

There's also speculation on that thread about basing another Aer Lingus A330 in Manchester.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787415#Comment_121787415

Well it looks like the can is kicked down the road anyway so nothing will happen in 2024 anyway and probably will be too late for 2025.

Also the planning issue isn't about regional airports at all, its about peak traffic volumes on the M1 which are based on pre Covid & WFH projections.

It only became a regional airport issue when Brian Leddin tried to make it one to suit his own local agenda.