Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Noxegon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758662#Comment_121758662

It's entirely possible that it'd suit 10% (or more) of the passengers on some of those flights might prefer to originate from ORK or SNN.

However, you can't "move" flights like that. Airlines will fly where they can get the best return from their investment. If you tell then that they can't fly out of DUB, then they'll go to the next most valuable market, wherever that might be.

trellheim

Taking Paddy and Mary for example fron Fermoy off for their two weeks in Lanzarote, whats it matter if they take off from Cork or Dublin, Ryanair or EI are gonna extract the same cash from them no matter which airport they leave from ? So whats wrong with that, its a shorter fuel burn to Lanzarote and less petrol driving up and back the M8

Noxegon

If Paddy and Mary can occupy all 189 seats on a 738, sure.

If they're only occupying 50 of them then the numbers won't work.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759185#Comment_121759185

I think the issue is you cannot just look at it in the context of one route. Every single time Ryanair or Aer Lingus land a plane in Cork they need to fill it before taking off again. Like if a plane leaves from Cork in the morning to go to Lanzarote, then comes back to Cork from Lanzarote late afternoon, where does it go next?

It's much easier for them to do this in Dublin where the market is many times larger.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758617#Comment_121758617

It shows how biased and blinkered this sub forum is, misinformation posted above and because it suits the agenda we get 5 sheep thank the post! No thinking outside the box will be tolerated, it can only be Dublin airport. Hilarious stuff…

lisasimpson

The biggest constraints for Cork and Shannon is the lack of public transport to both. Need to make it easy for potential passengers to get 2 or from the terminals esp for early departures and late arrivals. Make it easier to get to both the easier it is for airlines to fill planes. Its a hell of a lot easier for me to get a bus to Dublin airport from nenagh than to Shannon down the road.

It's not just about getting new routes to Shannon and Cork. Its the bigger picture of making it easier to use them

O

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759818#Comment_121759818

🤔🤔 considering the thread title is “Dublin Airport New runway/ infrastructure “ it’s hardly surprising the topic of discussion is mostly about Dublin airport.

to add, there’s been plenty of discussion with facts informing you and other posters why Shannon, Cork and Knock will not benefit from keeping cap at Dublin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759885#Comment_121759885

I actually don’t support the cap and never said I did so not sure where you get that idea. What I am asking is for some bigger picture thinking around the promotion of other regional airports which are under utilised which would have the upside of taking the pressure of Dublin airport and the surrounding area be it road congestion, housing, having to buy land for car parks, taxis etc etc.

Of course we need a national airport which offers scale and efficiency but to write off all other airports on our island and have everyone travel from every corner to it is not very smart especially when the airport is located in a hugely over congested part of the country.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759865#Comment_121759865

I find the biggest constraint to Cork is the runway. Fog, wind, etc. Its very weather dependant.

Get Cat III working on the N/S runway (somehow, I know it has hills on it) to alleviate the fog. Extend the E/W runway to allow jets to land on it.

Preferentially use the N/S runway, use E/W for jets only when the wind is out of limits.

Cork is extremely car dependant, for better or for worse, so the lack of public transport isn't the end of the world. Although it would be a VERY easy win to extend a city bus service to the airport. 15 minute frequency.

x567

I’m finding the quite polarised discussion around the DUB cap on here quite interesting so wanted to add my thoughts. There essentially seem to be three camps in the debate. Those that think, to varying degrees that:

1.     Unconstrained expansion at DUB must be allowed at all costs for the good of the economy of the country;

2.     Flights should be shared around the country somehow to take pressure off DUB; and

3.     All flight is bad.

I get all of the arguments around the economic need to centralise at DUB for the benefit of the primary airlines and the general Dublin-centric population and for the good of the economy overall. I don’t think that this can be without constraint however, at least until such time the correct infrastructure is put in place around DUB to cope with its current size at peak times, let alone an expanded size. If the cap is just removed, what incentive is there to invest in this infrastructure?  It is beyond crazy that DUB ran out of car park spaces last year and that it still has no rapid transit link to the city centre and to the national rail infrastructure (such as that is). I’m open to correction but I think in pax number terms DUB is possibly now nearly as big as Heathrow was when the HEX was planned?

Mandating the sharing of flights around the country is a non-starter as many have said. The alternative airports need a couple of things. Much better public transport links that make the airports attractive to passengers; and, in my opinion, incentivising airlines with planes that are better scaled to the market and which are more cost-effective to operate on thin routes than the core fleets of FR and EI (short-haul). It’s disappointing, for example, that Emerald haven’t returned ATR services to SNN – the Stobart-operated ones always seemed pretty full and gave usable business-friendly connections to multiple UK cities. FR may now be on some of these routes, but they have erratic and unfriendly timings. This effectively means having to drive to Dublin if you need to make a short trip to anywhere other than London. It also means (e.g.) Limerick is more painful to get to for potential investors etc than it needs to be.

On the third point, aviation is doing a lot to improve sustainability but still has a lot more to do. Are we proud that the reason EI now mainly operates NEOs into LHR is that LHR priced the older planes out of the airport? Shouldn’t it be us that’s driving higher standards at DUB? Aviation will remain a strong fixture in Ireland, so needs to be properly planned for and accommodated into an integrated national transport strategy that works for the whole island – this isn’t something that can be sorted out by local authority planners. And the Greens aren’t all swivel-eyed loons btw - some of the comments about them on here are well wide of the mark. They have a role to play in us getting the balance right into the future. 

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759250#Comment_121759250

DAA are asking for the cap to be lifted, because the demand is there. My point was that if that level of demand is there, there's certainly enough to fill more regional departures , even if it was only 10% to each of Shannon, Cork, Knock which would say that 30% of the demand is from those regions leaving 70% Dublin Centric. Ryanair for example are very good already at predicting where that flight should go on its return from Lanzarote, even if its only go straight back out to Alicante and return , and bingo you're taking some of that bucket and spade out to regional airports, which is exactly what happens in the UK because Heathrow's full, which sounds familiar

dublin12367

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760441#Comment_121760441

A lot of, if not most of Heathrow’s overflow goes to Gatwick. The leisure / low cost routes to London are mostly operated to Stansted, Luton and to an extent Gatwick also. Each of the 4 airports are in the London area and the city is very accessible from each, so not sure you can compare that to Dublin when there’s only 1 airport in Dublin region. Also, Heathrow hasn’t much room to expand without demolishing a lot of houses and towns. Dublin can basically double in size from what it is currently to the green sites to the west apron.

If Ryanair thought an extra two or three weekly frequencies from knock to Lanzarote was going to return excellent figures, they’d jump in to increase it.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759865#Comment_121759865

I don't know about Cork, but there are over 50 buses a day between the 343 and the 51/X51 serving Shannon. That is not in any way a lack of public transport.

Economics101

The Greens are of course getting behind the continuuing cap on Dublin passenger numbers, presumably because they want to control emissions, although they will weigh in with inadequate infrastructure as a supporting argumebt. Now if they are serious about emissions, then what they should want is a cap on total numbers at all irish airports. Any diversion of passengers from Dublin to Cork or Shannon does nothing for emissions.

Why 'can't the Greens be honest about this? THey want to limit our ability to travel. No more affordable holidays in the sun for a week or two, just over-priced, wet and windy Ireland.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760949#Comment_121760949

How would a cap of 32m (which I doubt will be maintained) equate to "No more affordable holidays in the sun for a week or two, just over-priced, wet and windy Ireland."?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761141#Comment_121761141

The argument is that demand will continue to grow but supply will be artificially constrained, therefore driving up prices, and making air travel unaffordable for more people.

lisasimpson

There's still large portions of the Midwest not covered though

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761141#Comment_121761141

And you missed the main thrust of my post, which is if the Greens are serious about capping it should be for all flights out of Irish Airports. This would be in the region of 40 million passengers a year. I can only imagine the outrage if Shannon and Cork were part of such a Green grand scheme.

It would really show them up.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761273#Comment_121761273

What do you mean? Not covered by what?

dublin12367

Dublins January 2024 passengers remained on par with Jan 2023. Manchesters Jan 2024 passengers have increased by over 9 percent compared to Jan2023. Not saying it’s a direct result of Dublin being capped but they both usually grow at the same rate. A lot of passengers (and the benefits they bring ) for Dublin and Ireland left behind in Jan 2024 and that trend likely to continue for the next year at least.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761470#Comment_121761470

Its such a ridiculous state of affairs. The needless loss of tens of thousands of tourists who would otherwise be spending money in Ireland, keeping local businesses and jobs afloat. And not just in the airport, but across the country.

Qaanaaq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761141#Comment_121761141

It is no secret the greens want travel to reduce, less holidays, city breaks etc. I think they ultimately want people to have a limited flights quota but this will never get any traction, so they will just jump on any opportunity to cap flying.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761601#Comment_121761601

To be fair, how many tourists come to Ireland in January, and in reality could January ever really be a tourist month here.

I'd say most January flights are people getting away for a break from the winter weather whether it be to the sun or the slopes.

Eitherway, the cap is ridiculous and needs to be scrapped, that there is no denying.

IngazZagni

Plenty of tourists fly to Dublin in January. Yes not as much as other months but tens of thousands still do. You just have to be beside the usual tourist attractions to see this. This is the time of year we should be encouraging airlines to fly however instead airlines could reduce capacity in the lower profit times of the year and instead focus on increasing capacity in peak summer to maximise revenue with the current capacity restrictions.

The Daa even confirmed that capacity restrictions are the reason why Dublin didn't increase passenger numbers last month but other airports did.

howiya

What is the back story with the cap? I understand it was a planning condition re building Terminal 2 but what I don't understand is why it was left in place till now. Should DAA have challenged it at the time or submitted a new planning application sooner? Should/have heads roll/rolled?

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766459#Comment_121766459

The cap is related to the road network around the airport and not the airports capacity at all. Ironically enough, if you take the number of pax using the airport in any of the summer months and multiply it by 12, it exceeds the cap, so there isn’t really any issue with the roads handling a higher amount of traffic so hence, there shouldn’t be any reason for the cap being what it is.

But, like a lot of things these days, it’s being weaponised with the environment being brought into it which was never a factor when it was first implemented.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766504#Comment_121766504

 so there isn’t really any issue with the roads handling a higher amount of traffic so hence, there shouldn’t be any reason for the cap being what it is

Thanks for your reply. This is the bit I'm trying to understand. Why has the cap been left in place since the 2007 planning decision? Junior Transport Minister told the Dáil on 1 February that DAA had recently submitted an application to have the cap increased. Should this not have been done sooner?

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766554#Comment_121766554

In ‘07 a lot of people would prob have believed that the cap would never be reached… but yeah maybe the application to remove it could have been made sooner! Think Covid was a factor and the rapid return of flight traffic caught the DAA off guard

bikeman1

The extend a point made by Captain Crash.

30th July 2023 was the busiest day in Dublin Airport for the year with 121,000 passengers. Multiply this by 364 days (DUB closed on 25/12), gives you 44,044,000. The roads and infrastructure (although very busy), everyone got through just fine and made their check in and flights. This was without the Quickpark site being open in Summer 2023, which should be 2024.

FCC should immediately permit traffic of 44 million and do an assessment in the meantime at what the capacity of the public transport and road network can handle until more bus routes and Metrolink comes online.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766579#Comment_121766579

A record 31.5m (at the time) passengers passed through in 2018 followed by 32.9m passengers in 2019. Hard to see how either DAA could be caught off guard or Covid could be a factor. Seems more like gross incompetence to me.

I think they should have challenged the linking of passenger numbers to planning permission in 2007. Even the current application to increase the cap to 40m just kicks the can down the road.