Croke Park deal to fail

Pappa Charlie

Almaviva wrote: »

Not fully. They are employees of the ordinary private sector taxpayers and citizens. Sometimes public sector workers forget that.

Ya, Johnny that has never worked a day in his life is aften the most demanding and indeed the loudest, " I pay your wages, I only ever heard it from scumbags never decent folk

Jawgap

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Ya, Johnny that has never worked a day in his life is aften the most demanding and indeed the loudest, " I pay your wages, I only ever heard it from scumbags never decent folk

That's it!! I've had enough of you @Pappa Charlie

Feck Reporting this post......

"I'm ringing Joe Duffy on you"

and, my favourite.....

"I know my constitutional rights......"

:pac:

Pappa Charlie

Jawgap wrote: »

That's it!! I've had enough of you @Pappa Charlie

Feck Reporting this post......

"I'm ringing Joe Duffy on you"

and, my favourite.....

"I know my constitutional rights......"

:pac:

My Daddy is a barristor!

Jawgap

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

My Daddy is a barristor!

Do you know who I am, well do you?

kippy

Jawgap wrote: »

Some do, a lot don't - I know it might be popular but actually don't mind the being described as a Public Servant - in the best traditions of the boy scouts, one of the main reasons I joined the PS from the private sector was to help people rather than build profits.

I'm not against the wage bill being cut - it has to be, but I am against wage cuts - there's plenty of deadwood to be trimmed from the PS, and this should be done as part of a real reform programme.

There's lots of other things that could also be done, increasing the top rate of income tax by 1%, introduce student loans instead of grants, close out some tax avoidance schemes - in that list there may have to be wage cuts, but they shouldn't be at the top.

There should also be acknowledgement that the mood is swinging away from austerity - the 3% deficit by 2015 is no longer the Holy Grail.

I'd be in agreement on the wage bill being cut and how it should be done and most other assertions you make.

Although I disagree on the face that a 3% deficit is no longer the Holy Grail - we should in general be working off of as low a deficit as possible - especially when you see how high our overall debt is - we don't want to end increasing this any more than we should as we have already pilled a lot of extra debt on our kids.

Jawgap

kippy wrote: »

I'd be in agreement on the wage bill being cut and how it should be done and most other assertions you make.

Although I disagree on the face that a 3% deficit is no longer the Holy Grail - we should in general be working off of as low a deficit as possible - especially when you see how high our overall debt is - we don't want to end increasing this any more than we should as we have already pilled a lot of extra debt on our kids.

I think we're nearly on the same page:)

I think the 3% deficit should be aimed for, but 2015 shouldn't be a hard and fast deadline - sometime before mid 2017 would be fine, but, I agree, not perfect - long run, a slight deficit of up to 3% and inflation up to 2% is theoretically, if memory serves, the sweet spot for sustainable but modest economic growth.

Freddy Smelly

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

My Daddy is a barristor!

did he work on any of the tribunals?

those guys robbed the taxpayers just as much as the politicians did:eek:

Celticfire

Jawgap wrote: »

How about linking to some evidence to back that the rest of that bilge up?

I'm trying to figure out if you're a student on some mincey arts degree who's picked up a few titbits from listening in at the grown-ups table of if you're someone who tried but failed to get into the PS - difficult to believe that with your keen, insightful analysis you're the latter, but maybe you were just too good - they couldn't let you in because you'd just make the rest of us look pedestrian.......

This poster was known originally as Jimmy, then banned , back as Ginio... banned and then banned from politics again as poster True.

You're wasting your time engaging with this fine individual as he's been here since 2008 spouting the same rubbish over and over again. There is nothing you will say that hasn't already been said to him. I'm just surprised he hasn't told you about the apartment in Leitrim that can be bought with the average PS salary.

Jawgap

Celticfire wrote: »

This poster was known originally as Jimmy, then banned , back as Ginio... banned and then banned from politics again as poster True.

You're wasting your time engaging with this fine individual as he's been here since 2008 spouting the same rubbish over and over again. There is nothing you will say that hasn't already been said to him. I'm just surprised he hasn't told you about the apartment in Leitrim that can be bought with the average PS salary.

I know, but I like taking in strays.........

.......pity he didn't tell me about the Leitrim thing, my wife is from Leitrim, I could have used that to take the p1$$ out of her and my father-in-law.....

.....and for information, you can get a house in Carrick for the 48k that he says is the average PS salary:)

tayto lover

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

My Daddy is a barristor!

Mine works in K.P.M.G.

woodoo

true wrote: »

[*]shorter working week ( only 32 hours on average )
.

Prove that gigino?

Sandwlch

tayto lover wrote: »

Mine works in K.P.M.G.

Whatever. Mine's the highest earning portner there.

Potential-Monke

Almaviva wrote: »

Not fully. They are employees of the ordinary private sector taxpayers and citizens. Sometimes public sector workers forget that.

I must also be the employee of people on the dole too, i keep at least one of them "in the job" on a weekly basis through the taxes i pay... oh... wait... I'm in the Public Sector, i don't pay taxes.

true wrote: »

• Not when they get treated so differently from everyone else
• nearly double the earnings per hour on average compared to the private sector
• lump sums tax free of average 87k on retirement, plus a golden pension
• shorter working week ( only 32 hours on average )
• more sickies

Public servants are net receivers from the government : private sector workers fund the government.

For the last time, i'm posting this link which is a post, by me, showing my potential pension entitlements should i retire at Garda rank, and as long as no more cuts/taxes come in. Again, for the last time, i will point out that it is not those "golden" figures you consistently keep referring and linking to. Any further attempts to make reference to those figures, i will report each and every post for trolling, as that is all it is, and that is all you are.

I actually get a headache each time i see an uneducated, ill-informed, biased, bitter and juvenile posts from you, ones laced with lies and opinions based on hearsay and government spun tactics, taken from biased and party funded "journalism".

And you don't even have the deceny, when asked politely a number of times, to give us an idea of what sector you work in (if any), so we can have a mature debate on the differences and comparisons to be made between us.

However, you have been called out, and i see it will only be a matter of time before the crack of the banhammer will strike down upon you again.

Uriel.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I must also be the employee of people on the dole too, i keep at least one of them "in the job" on a weekly basis through the taxes i pay... oh... wait... I'm in the Public Sector, i don't pay taxes.



For the last time, i'm posting this link which is a post, by me, showing my potential pension entitlements should i retire at Garda rank, and as long as no more cuts/taxes come in. Again, for the last time, i will point out that it is not those "golden" figures you consistently keep referring and linking to. Any further attempts to make reference to those figures, i will report each and every post for trolling, as that is all it is, and that is all you are.

I actually get a headache each time i see an uneducated, ill-informed, biased, bitter and juvenile posts from you, ones laced with lies and opinions based on hearsay and government spun tactics, taken from biased and party funded "journalism".

And you don't even have the deceny, when asked politely a number of times, to give us an idea of what sector you work in (if any), so we can have a mature debate on the differences and comparisons to be made between us.

However, you have been called out, and i see it will only be a matter of time before the crack of the banhammer will strike down upon you again.

You're wasting your time. Hit the ignore button, move on and lower your blood pressure

johnnydeep

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I must also be the employee of people on the dole too, i keep at least one of them "in the job" on a weekly basis through the taxes i pay... oh... wait... I'm in the Public Sector, i don't pay taxes.



For the last time, i'm posting this link which is a post, by me, showing my potential pension entitlements should i retire at Garda rank, and as long as no more cuts/taxes come in. Again, for the last time, i will point out that it is not those "golden" figures you consistently keep referring and linking to. Any further attempts to make reference to those figures, i will report each and every post for trolling, as that is all it is, and that is all you are.

I actually get a headache each time i see an uneducated, ill-informed, biased, bitter and juvenile posts from you, ones laced with lies and opinions based on hearsay and government spun tactics, taken from biased and party funded "journalism".

And you don't even have the deceny, when asked politely a number of times, to give us an idea of what sector you work in (if any), so we can have a mature debate on the differences and comparisons to be made between us.

However, you have been called out, and i see it will only be a matter of time before the crack of the banhammer will strike down upon you again.

from your figures I have read that an ordinary garda at lowest level when they retire gets more on their pension than I do for a 70 hour week.what difference does it make where he works or doesn't you don't have to pay his wages

Jawgap

johnnydeep wrote: »

from your figures I have read that an ordinary garda at lowest level when they retire gets more on their pension than I do for a 70 hour week.what difference does it make where he works or doesn't you don't have to pay his wages

What? You get out of one side of the bed you're @true.......get out of the other you're @johnnydeep?

Potential-Monke

johnnydeep wrote: »

from your figures I have read that an ordinary garda at lowest level when they retire gets more on their pension than I do for a 70 hour week.what difference does it make where he works or doesn't you don't have to pay his wages

So you're annoyed that i chose a job with better entitlements than your job? These figures are freely available to everyone, and yet it's my fault that i chose this one? Your obviously of the opinion that frontline services don't deserve this, that our career is too short and our reward is too much. Guaranteed the majority of people complaining woulndn't be able for the job of a nurse, garda, fireman, doctor, paramedic, or any other frontline service.

And no, i don't pay his wages, but i'm there when he needs me, regardless of my opinion on his chosen career or his attitude towards me. But the difference it makes is that he is unwilling to let us know what he works as, as it more than likely will make his arguements fall flat on their faces.

true

I cannot speak for anyone else but in general, people know that public sector pay + pensions are too high on average and need reform. Thats why the Taoiseach said yesterday than unless there are pay cuts the public servants have no job security.
People are annoyed that the public secor pay and pensions is so high....but it does not matter that he thinks it, that most of the country thinks it...its the fact that the Troika thinks it is thats important. As the economist McCarthy pointed out....the State has not run out of compassion - it has run out of money!

Larbre34

true wrote: »

I cannot speak for anyone else but in general, people know that public sector pay + pensions are too high on average and need reform. Thats why the Taoiseach said yesterday than unless there are pay cuts the public servants have no job security.
People are annoyed that the public secor pay and pensions is so high....but it does not matter that he thinks it, that most of the country thinks it...its the fact that the Troika thinks it is thats important. As the economist McCarthy pointed out....the State has not run out of compassion - it has run out of money!

The 'state' has run out of brains.

Enda =we need 7%
Enda = we need 300 million per annum
Payroll = 14 billion
7% = 980 million not 300 million
2.14% = 300 million
Enda = moron

Don't let yourself be treated like a mushroom, 'most of the country' need to think to themselves, how damaged a system do you want at the end of this crisis, by the time this Government has ruined beyond repair the services people want and need.

true

true wrote: »

I cannot speak for anyone else but in general, people know that public sector pay + pensions are too high on average and need reform.

No you think that (and you're wrong) , most people agree that people working education, healthcare, policing etc deserve everything they get and are undervalued and underpaid if anything.

true

It should be possible to have a working public service which does not cost the earth. Take the NHS in the UK for example, miles ahead of our health system even though wages here ( eg consultants wages) are higher, and the cost of medicines much higher etc. How do our neighbours get by with average public sector salary of £23.6k, while ours is €49k ?

alastair

true wrote: »

I cannot speak for anyone else but in general, people know that...

Riight. :rolleyes:

kippy

true wrote: »

It should be possible to have a working public service which does not cost the earth. Take the NHS in the UK for example, miles ahead of our health system even though wages here ( eg consultants wages) are higher, and the cost of medicines much higher etc. How do our neighbours get by with average public sector salary of £23.6k, while ours is €49k ?

Maybe you should move over there and ask them?

true

The troika has given the answer, and you do not like it as you will see 6k wiped from your pay

tayto lover

true wrote: »

It should be possible to have a working public service which does not cost the earth. Take the NHS in the UK for example, miles ahead of our health system even though wages here ( eg consultants wages) are higher, and the cost of medicines much higher etc. How do our neighbours get by with average public sector salary of £23.6k, while ours is €49k ?

Well for just one little everyday item --

A car. Compare the prices here to the prices in England.

When you have that done I have more comparisons for you seeing that you love comparisons.

kippy

true wrote: »

It should be possible to have a working public service which does not cost the earth. Take the NHS in the UK for example, miles ahead of our health system even though wages here ( eg consultants wages) are higher, and the cost of medicines much higher etc. How do our neighbours get by with average public sector salary of £23.6k, while ours is €49k ?

true wrote: »

The troika has given the answer, and you do not like it as you will see 6k wiped from your pay

The "troika" are on the scene close on 3 years now.
What makes you think they intend causing mass industrial unrest at this point?

true

kippy wrote: »

The "troika" are on the scene close on 3 years now.
What makes you think they intend causing mass industrial unrest at this point?

"industrial unrest"?? The public sector is not industry. Workers in industry are paid an average of 32k a year and statistics show they take half the sickies the public service take. You will not find undustrial unrest.

You may find elements in the public service may want to strike when the troika will not "lend" as much money anymore. They are still lending €1,250,000,000.00 per month just to keep ublic expenditure as high as it is, which is higher than in their own countries. That is unsustainable. Thats why the Taoiseach yesterday said there is no job security in the public service if they do not co-operate with cuts. yahoo,

Nabber

My gripe wit the public sector would be the amount of committees. Committees set up to review another committees findings.

Also. As the public sector should have shrunk with the private sector, the public sector shrink has been low, costly and voluntary.


Job protection is and always will be the sore point for private sector to accept.

tayto lover

Nabber wrote: »

My gripe wit the public sector would be the amount of committees. Committees set up to review another committees findings.

Also. As the public sector should have shrunk with the private sector, the public sector shrink has been low, costly and voluntary.


Job protection is and always will be the sore point for private sector to accept.

Were you or the other knockers as concerned 7,8,9 or 10 years ago though when the Private Sector were creaming it? Probably too busy laughing up your sleeve at them then i'd say.

Eaten bread is soon forgotten.

johnnydeep

tayto lover wrote: »

Were you or the other knockers as concerned 7,8,9 or 10 years ago though when the Private Sector were creaming it? Probably too busy laughing up your sleeve at them then i'd say.

Eaten bread is soon forgotten.

have you any proof of this. nobody I know was CREAMING it. the construction industry was EARNING good money and those employed in frontline got wage
increases to match that. despite the fact that those working in construction being paid relative to the amount of work they were doing. working 12 hours a day driving hundreds of miles. while those in the public sector.....