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Croke Park deal to fail

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    #2
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Dance...........


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    #3
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Propose a cut of 6%?


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    #4
    Richard tea
    Registered Users Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    Finally some good news

    CORDIALLY
    butt face:)


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    #5
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Countries broke.

    Huge deficit.

    Etc etc.


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    #6
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Thank fuck for that.


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    #7
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    "General Secretary Tom Geraghty warned that this must be the last occasion on which public servants are targeted as they cannot continue to be expected to carry a disproportionate share of the country's burden."

    Continue to carry? When did they start?


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    #8
    Richard tea
    Registered Users Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭Richard tea


    News just in....Howlin has requested a fresh pair of pants ASAP:eek:


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    #9
    TeddyTedson
    Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭TeddyTedson


    I don't really see why any unions would vote for Croke Park 2. I mean nobody want's to be doing more hours in work or taking wage cuts.


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    #10
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Dance...........

    May I suggest.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7hHx7gdN68


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    #11
    stevedublin
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭stevedublin


    Caliden wrote: »
    "General Secretary Tom Geraghty warned that this must be the last occasion on which public servants are targeted as they cannot continue to be expected to carry a disproportionate share of the country's burden."

    Continue to carry? When did they start?

    since they took pay cuts etc. from the first Croke Park agreement.
    ....ask a silly question!


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    #12
    Mick ah
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Mick ah


    Nobody wants to be cut.

    But if you have no money, what's the alternative? Borrow to pay wages?


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    #13
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Shame Margaret Thatcher died. We could use her now on the unions.


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    #14
    nolow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭nolow


    Good, with that out of the way. The government will have no choice but the cut all around. They gave the PS a chance to get the best deal they could and now it's thrown back in their face. Better still this will destroy the union bloc once and for all as the more realistic unions will be furious with their lemming like colleagues who are even now heading off the fiscal cliff while trying to drag them down with them.

    The Labour Party will self destruct because they forgot their principles. Which essentially is to protect the PS from reality while taxing the hell out of the rest of us.

    The government may fall or it may come back as an FG/FF coalition who will carry on as before because they have no choice.

    Any attempt at industrial action will play into the government hands. Public opinion will rapidly turn against the unions and any strikes will cost their members more money than the cuts.

    They're like Turkeys voting for Christmas. If the honestly think there's a better deal to be had then they are delusional.

    Whether they like it or not the cuts are coming. The money isn't there anymore. No matter what government is in power that reality remains.


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    #15
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    syklops wrote: »
    Shame Margaret Thatcher died. We could use her now on the unions.

    I think they're going to want more than an old woman. Sure she wouldn't even be any use for cleaning a house.


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    #16
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    stevedublin wrote: »
    since they took pay cuts etc. from the first Croke Park agreement.
    ....ask a silly question!

    Not really cuts as they still get their guaranteed (not performance based) wage increase every so often.


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    #17
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Great news, the worm is turning.


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    #18
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Caliden wrote: »
    Not really cuts as they still get their guaranteed (not performance based) wage increase every so often.

    It's not a pay rise, it's an increment, which is different because it's a rise in ..er...pay :pac:


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    #19
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    Absolutely great news. The Government have tried mediation and will now use legislation to make the cuts necessary to restore some semblance of economic sovereignty to the State.


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    #20
    schnitzelEater
    Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭schnitzelEater


    Caliden wrote: »
    Not really cuts as they still get their guaranteed (not performance based) wage increase every so often.

    Increments?


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    #21
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,438 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Sergeant wrote: »
    Absolutely great news. The Government have tried mediation and will now use legislation to make the cuts necessary to restore some semblance of economic sovereignty to the State.

    There.Will.Be.War
    (ie strikes and generally bad times for the populace for a period until this is sorted out)


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    #22
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Get your passports now, kids.


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    #23
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    daveyeh wrote: »
    What will Labour do now?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0416/381586-croke-park-agreement/


    the government will now make cuts across the board. the ps will go on strike and no one will care.


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    #24
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    nolow wrote: »
    Good, with that out of the way. The government will have no choice but the cut all around. They gave the PS a chance to get the best deal they could and now it's thrown back in their face.

    Please tell me the ways this was the best deal possible?

    Speaking as an NQT, I'm thrilled this proposal has been rejected across the board. It would have killed off the teaching profession for new and young teachers by abolishing paid sub work, and it would have destroyed conditions for teachers, and in turn for schools and students.

    By refusing the cut in conditions, at least all that can be cut is wages now, and I think most people (at least over on the teaching boards) accept that cuts are on the way, but also that cuts alone are a far better prospect than cuts AND deterioration of conditions as well. Cuts, if times get better, can be reversed. The changes to conditions proposed by the CPII agreement would have been far longer lasting and far more damaging in the short and long run.


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    #25
    DoesNotCompute
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    Caliden wrote: »
    Not really cuts as they still get their guaranteed (not performance based) wage increase every so often.

    Increments are only approved if a fully completed annual assessment is completed (look up Performance Management Development System).

    Since 2008, civil and public servants have endured a Health Levy, Pension Levy, Pension Related Deductions, and pensions have been restructed such that anyone retiring post Feb 2011 will now receive a pension that is based on averaging, rather than their final salary. Promotions have been put on hold, hiring has been embargoed and most Departments have put a freeze on the Career Break scheme.

    You really need to stop reading the Indo if you think public/civil servants haven't been cut.


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    #26
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    kippy wrote: »
    There.Will.Be.War
    (ie strikes and generally bad times for the populace for a period until this is sorted out)

    I'd rather have a long winter of discontent and a FG/FF coalition than have my kids and grandkids paying increased taxes for the next 40 years, as we didn't have the balls to deal with the massive overweight elephant in the room - public sector pay and pensions.


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    #27
    granturismo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭granturismo


    Caliden wrote: »
    Not really cuts as they still get their guaranteed (not performance based) wage increase every so often.

    18% reduction in take home from Croke Park 1.

    Lets say a PS takes a post with 5 increments - thats one increase per year, after year 5 no increases. Lets say that person gets a promotion to a higher scale with x increments - thats one increase for x years.

    Every PS gets a limited amount of increments. Once the top increment is reached thats it - no lifetime of increments


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    #28
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users Posts: 4,411 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    granturismo wrote: »
    18% reduction in take home from Croke Park 1.

    Lets say a PS takes a post with 5 increments - thats one increase per year, after year 5 no increases. Lets say that person gets a promotion to a higher scale with x increments - thats one increase for x years.

    Every PS gets a limited amount of increments. Once the top increment is reached thats it - no lifetime of increments

    I would hope not. That's the kinda $hit that has us where we are today.

    People in the public sector are completely out of touch with reality.

    Approx 1.5m people working in Ireland and 68,000 siptu members can hold the country at gun point.

    I don't see much sympathy coming for the PS.


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    #29
    SB2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭SB2013


    twinytwo wrote: »
    the government will now make cuts across the board. the ps will go on strike and no one will care.

    Fairly sure people will notice an absence of emergency services personnel and teachers.


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    #30
    HondaSami
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    What was the point in the vote in the first place when the government made it clear either agree with then or they bring in legislation to get what they want.Typical of our government.


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    #31
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users Posts: 4,411 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    SB2013 wrote: »
    Fairly sure people will notice an absence of emergency services personnel and teachers.

    Not sure emergency services personnel can go on all out strike, do they not have a duty of care?


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