Croke Park deal to fail

Pappa Charlie

Uriel. wrote: »

Why did you deflect oap entitlements to public service pay?

I think he just hates anyone who gets anything that he dosent get!

johnnydeep

oaps are just another group who have the time and the free travel to protest. the money has to come from somewhere. the politicans aint going to tax the rich (turkeys don't vote for Christmas). so the people who suffer are low paid paye and self employed.

Odysseus

johnnydeep wrote: »

oaps are just another group who have the time and the free travel to protest. the money has to come from somewhere. the politicans aint going to tax the rich (turkeys don't vote for Christmas). so the people who suffer are low paid paye and self employed.

So this is your reason to cut them, they have free time and free travel? Wow, lets hit them!

How dare they have time on their hands, maybe we can find a way to charge them for it.

We could hit their medical card, maybe not pay for any painkillers they need, that would show them.

Any other groups we should hit?

Those with disabilities?
Those with Addictions?
Or is it just anyone who may need help?

johnnydeep

Odysseus wrote: »

So this is your reason to cut them, they have free time and free travel? Wow, lets hit them!

How dare they have time on their hands, maybe we can find a way to charge them for it.

We could hit their medical card, maybe not pay for any painkillers they need, that would show them.

Any other groups we should hit?

Those with disabilities?
Those with Addictions?
Or is it just anyone who may need help?

sure give everybody a 100% raise. its not like the country is broke or anything. the cuts will come somewhere. where do you want them health, education. not the usual bull**** somewhere that would mean a significant saving

johnnydeep

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I love you too!

not a big fan myself. bono is a knob who talks about poverty while dodging taxes and cant sing for ****e

johnnydeep

johnnydeep wrote: »

because despite the high paid wages the p.s are on. if the paye sector gets anymore hits then they will be better off at home. I presume you are aware money doesn't grow on trees.

You do realise a hit on paye means a more deductions on public sector workers pay also.

But don't let facts get in the way of your sh1te talk, though I doubt it will as you haven't spoken a word of sense in this thread yet.

Yourself and true are carrying around such a massive amount of begrudgery for hard working people who work hard to get a good education, then work hard to have a good career and get the pension they are entitled to, ye are both pathetic tbh.

Jawgap

true wrote: »

actually they usually get half that, and thats for supervising the build, specifying materials, checking builders, solving problems etIt does not matter what % fee they charge, the end result is the same

"The RIAI say that architects in the public service are paid more than DOUBLE the average private sector architect gets now. Plus many in the private sector have lost their jobs, and I know of some who have lost their pensions : none in the public service have lost their jobs or pension earnings.

At the other end of the scale educational qualifications , cleaners and security personnel in the private sector are paid much less in the private sector than in the public sector."

These "professionals" were - according to the RIAI - pulling in up to 15% on 5m Euro contracts - that's 750k or about 10 years salary for PS architect. Even pulling down fees at the median level (10%) means you could earn the equivalent of PS architects salary on a fairly modest sized one-off house build. If you were pulling in that kind of money you be mad or greedy or both not to be saving at least half of it.

tayto lover wrote: »

And your point is what exactly?

Maybe you'd like a cull of the elderly.

Yeah, let's follow the alleged Inuit practice of senilicide - the architects can supervise the building of the ice floes

johnnydeep

Gordon Stale Birthmark wrote: »

You do realise a hit on paye means a more deductions on public sector workers pay also.

But don't let facts get in the way of your sh1te talk, though I doubt it will as you haven't spoken a word of sense in this thread yet.

Yourself and true are carrying around such a massive amount of begrudgery for hard working people who work hard to get a good education, then work hard to have a good career and get the pension they are entitled to, ye are both pathetic tbh.

all your posts are rubbish. but even more they are confrontational and aggressive. the kind of thing you expect from somebody defending the indefensible

johnnydeep

Jawgap wrote: »

These "professionals" were - according to the RIAI - pulling in up to 15% on 5m Euro contracts - that's 750k or about 10 years salary for PS architect. Even pulling down fees at the median level (10%) means you could earn the equivalent of PS architects salary on a fairly modest sized one-off house build. If you were pulling in that kind of money you be mad or greedy or both not to be saving at least half of it.



Yeah, let's follow the alleged Inuit practice of senilicide - the architects can supervise the building of the ice floes

how many architects were working on 5m euro contracts. were they employing people, paying rent, driving for work.

lower_league

tayto lover wrote: »

We were talking about the elderly.
Jesus some of you have it real bad. You don't even take time to read the posts you're so angry.

you must have missed the big story today , the report on our pensions time bomb , amongst other things , it pointed out that much larger contributions will be required in future in order to recieve any kind of state pension , the level of contributions which were required for todays ( extremley generous state pension ) contributory pension were minimal , those on 219 per week didnt have to have ever paid any tax of any kind

pensioners today have it great and must make a contribution to ease the rest of the populations pain , thus far they have contributed nothing

lower_league

johnnydeep wrote: »

oaps are just another group who have the time and the free travel to protest. the money has to come from somewhere. the politicans aint going to tax the rich (turkeys don't vote for Christmas). so the people who suffer are low paid paye and self employed.

they ( pensioners ) also have several paid lobby groups ( like age action etc ) who draw salarys for playing violins for the elderly regardless of individual wealth

johnnydeep

johnnydeep wrote: »

all your posts are rubbish. but even more they are confrontational and aggressive. the kind of thing you expect from somebody defending the indefensible

Maybe you haven't noticed but there are a lot more people agreeing with me than with you, which means what you are saying is most likely totally wrong.

Also a man talking about cutting the pensions to elderly people who worked hard all their lives and paid mountains of tax along with paying into their pensions. Now that's an indefensible opinion to have.

Jawgap

lower_league wrote: »

they ( pensioners ) also have several paid lobby groups ( like age action etc ) who draw salarys for playing violins for the elderly regardless of individual wealth

Yeah, those feckin' sponger pensioners, sure didn't Willie Bermingham and ALONE make it all up!

true

Jawgap wrote: »

Even pulling down fees at the median level (10%) means you could earn the equivalent of PS architects salary on a fairly modest sized one-off house build.

rubbish. The RIAI can no longer provide architects with recommended fee scales , and you can get ahouse design drawings and site supervision and project management from a variety of sources - my cousin got a lecturer in a third level college ( who lectures in this area ) to do his house design / site inspections as a nixer. Think it only cost a few grand.
The point is, its not just architects , admin staff, cleaners, quantity surveyors, security staff ,etc who are overpaid in the public sector.
If the government paid the public sector worker the going rate, it would save many billions per year. No need for property tax, vat increases, high vrt charges etc then.

Uriel.

what should pensioners receive then, in your ideal world?

true

Gordon Stale Birthmark wrote: »

Also a man talking about cutting the pensions to elderly people who worked hard all their lives .

Brian Cowen did not work hard and he is not elderly., neither is his (retired) tanaiste....she is in her mid forties I think...yet has a 6 figure pension for the rest of her life ( 120k a year I think )

The old age pension in the UK is about 70 quid a week. Why should taxpayers there pay their taxes to lend us nmonety through the troika so we can pay our pensions multiples of that?
Do you know what the pension is in germany ?

Of couse if our public servants get paid double what their public servants get paid, why not our pensioners too?



Did nobody tell you our country is bust?

Jawgap

true wrote: »

rubbish. The RIAI can no longer provide architects with recommended fee scales , and you can get ahouse design drawings and site supervision and project management from a variety of sources - my cousin got a lecturer in a third level college ( who lectures in this area ) to do his house design / site inspections as a nixer. Think it only cost a few grand.
The point is, its not just architects , admin staff, cleaners, quantity surveyors, security staff ,etc who are overpaid in the public sector.
If the government paid the public sector worker the going rate, it would save many billions per year. No need for property tax, vat increases, high vrt charges etc then.

You're the one who keeps bringing up architects when you clearly haven't got a clue about them.

Nowhere did I say that the figures were "fee scales" - the figures were drawn from the RIAI's fees surveys.

Property tax is not going on salaries it's going to pay the debt the private sector banks accrued and the FF government socialised.

There's very few cleaners and security staff in the PS now - all that has been contracted out years ago.

So if the PS is so well paid, which job have you applied for?

johnnydeep

Gordon Stale Birthmark wrote: »

Maybe you haven't noticed but there are a lot more people agreeing with me than with you, which means what you are saying is most likely totally wrong.

Also a man talking about cutting the pensions to elderly people who worked hard all their lives and paid mountains of tax along with paying into their pensions. Now that's an indefensible opinion to have.

you can show proof of that I suppose.
its amazing all your greedy buddies in p.s agree with you. I admit then I am 150% wrong

lower_league

Uriel. wrote: »

what should pensioners receive then, in your ideal world?

180 euro per week would be more than enough , would still be ahead of the pension in the uk

the medical card threshold should also be lowered to 450 per week from the current level of 600

johnnydeep

johnnydeep wrote: »

you can show proof of that I suppose.
its amazing all your greedy buddies in p.s agree with you. I admit then I am 150% wrong

Why would I have to prove they paid mountains of tax, they had no choice and people who are retired and retiring now paid tax at a much higher rate than its being paid at now. On the point of them working hard, of course the vast majority did you have some fictional view that a public sector job is a doss, its just pure nonsense.

Also I don't work in the public sector so how could I have any public sector buddies?

Uriel.

true wrote: »

Brian Cowen did not work hard and he is not elderly., neither is his (retired) tanaiste....she is in her mid forties I think...yet has a 6 figure pension for the rest of her life ( 120k a year I think )

The old age pension in the UK is about 70 quid a week. Why should taxpayers there pay their taxes to lend us nmonety through the troika so we can pay our pensions multiples of that?
Do you know what the pension is in germany ?

Of couse if our public servants get paid double what their public servants get paid, why not our pensioners too?



Did nobody tell you our country is bust?

So you propose reducing the OAP to €82 per week - now look I know with the currency conversion I rounded up, so they'd still be overpaid by €0.14 a week, but maybe we could bring in a new tax for people with disabilities to make up the difference?

Pappa Charlie

johnnydeep wrote: »

you can show proof of that I suppose.
its amazing all your greedy buddies in p.s agree with you. I admit then I am 150% wrong

100% is fine Johnny, your exaggerating with your figures again!

lower_league

do you think because those in their thirties today who will work hard for the next four decades , will in anyway guarentee them the kind of pension the elderly recieve today , besides , even you never worked an hour , you recieve 219 per week + a multitude of perks

anyone who thinks its only a matter of cutting bertie and biffos pension is living in a fantasy world , the whole system is unsustainable which is what todays report says

johnnydeep

Gordon Stale Birthmark wrote: »

Why would I have to prove they paid mountains of tax, they had no choice and people who are retired and retiring now paid tax at a much higher rate than its being paid at now. On the point of them working hard, of course the vast majority did you have some fictional view that a public sector job is a doss, its just pure nonsense.

Also I don't work in the public service so how could I have any public service buddies?

are you saying you dont

true

Jawgap wrote: »

the figures were drawn from the RIAI's fees surveys.

The RIAI say that architects in the public service are paid more than DOUBLE the average private sector architect gets now. Not surprising when so many architects are out of work. Many in the private sector have lost their jobs, and I know of some who have lost their pensions : none in the public service have lost their jobs or pension earnings. You cannot argue architects or quantity surveyors or cleaners or security personnel or admin staff are as high paid in the private sector as in the public sector.

if the government did not squander money on public service pay and pensions, like above, it wqould not have to introduce taxes like the property tax, which will take in much less by comparison.

lower_league

Uriel. wrote: »

So you propose reducing the OAP to €82 per week - now look I know with the currency conversion I rounded up, so they'd still be overpaid by €0.14 a week, but maybe we could bring in a new tax for people with disabilities to make up the difference?

the uk old age pension is 102 pound per week but for a couple its only 170 , here its 460 for a couple on the contributory and 438 for a couple on the non contributory

pensioners in ireland also recieve a broader range of benefits than their counterparts in the uk

johnnydeep

johnnydeep wrote: »

are you saying you dont

Of course I have friends and family in the public sector, who doesn't? I may or may not work in it myself at some point but all this is irrelevant.

When you say me and my public sector buddies you are suggesting that I work there now which I don't, this is the point that I was making. Maybe you find it hard to believe that even people not working in the public sector choose to defend it because they know how hard people actually work there.

Uriel.

lower_league wrote: »

do you think because those in their thirties today who will work hard for the next four decades , will in anyway guarentee them the kind of pension the elderly recieve today , besides , even you never worked an hour , you recieve 219 per week + a multitude of perks

anyone who thinks its only a matter of cutting bertie and biffos pension is living in a fantasy world , the whole system is unsustainable which is what todays report says

SO we need to work out how to manage pensions for today's workers as the OECD is reportng. Perhaps higher PRSI payments in the future are needed etc.. I don't know the answer to that one, but cutting current pensioners who have no other earning capacity to a point where they rely further on state resources and kills any quality of life they have, is not a viable answer either.

Perhaps some cuts are required in ancillary benefits maybe even non contributory pensions etc... but sweeping cuts is not the answer

lower_league

Uriel. wrote: »

SO we need to work out how to manage pensions for today's workers as the OECD is reportng. Perhaps higher PRSI payments in the future are needed etc.. I don't know the answer to that one, but cutting current pensioners who have no other earning capacity to a point where they rely further on state resources and kills any quality of life they have, is not a viable answer either.

Perhaps some cuts are required in ancillary benefits maybe even non contributory pensions etc... but sweeping cuts is not the answer

the state pension is too generous , its not the states job to ensure that old people get to live in luxury anymore than its the states job to ensure unemployed people live in luxury , if you desire this , invest in a private pension

Uriel.

lower_league wrote: »

the uk old age pension is 102 pound per week but for a couple its only 170 , here its 460 for a couple on the contributory and 438 for a couple on the non contributory

pensioners in ireland also recieve a broader range of benefits than their counterparts in the uk

there are also a host of benefits for pensioners in the UK also. They may be less than some of the benefits here, but let's not pretend thy don't exist. Only problem I see is that they it is a far more complicated system over there (whether that's a good thing or not, I don't know)