Could the train once again be the King of the Dublin/Cork route?

nokia69

corktina wrote: »

back to my square vs cube arguement really... and once you exceed a certain weight with all thse batteries, you'll need another axle and that's more rolling resistance and weight to overcome.

go back at look at the video of the dutch superbus, it has a 400kWh battery a top speed of 250KM and a range of 210 KM, thats an intercity bus it works, look at the video

there are people building and driving electric cars, there are people building and flyiing small electric planes and helicopters, people are working on all kinds of battery powered electric transport, is it really so hard to believe that we will soon see battery powered intercity buses

BTW a few days ago I was reading in the economist about a lab in the US that have found a way to increase the power lithium ion batteries by 20%

on average batteries are getting better 8% a year, so your claim that another axel would be needed may not always be the case, and the claim that we will need to wait 100 years before we see intercity electric buses is just plain wrong

so like I said earlier there are 2 trends, 1. rising diesel prices and 2 falling battery prices, and its only a matter of time before we see electric buses on the roads

corktina

that's not a bus, it's a stretch limo and already has to have three axles.

Scale it up from about 12 passengers to about 50 and you start to see the problems of scale.

I'd suggest it has a top speed of 250km/h OR a range of 210 km.


A range of 210 km will just about get you to Cork, what about the rest of the day? you have to have vehicles capable of doing several trips a day.

foggy_lad

nokia69 wrote: »

go back at look at the video of the dutch superbus, it has a 400kWh battery a top speed of 250KM and a range of 210 KM, thats an intercity bus it works, look at the video

a car can take up to 18 hours to charge after fully depleted. How long more will those large bus batteries take and how is the bus going to make money during the time it is off the road charging?

Losty Dublin

Grandeeod wrote: »

This is a difficult one. The 150 year thing is a read herring in my opinion....

My point is that the staff are available to and have worked a 24 hour roster for years. Indeed they still do or else services such as the permanent way trains this weekend or 5AM departures towards Dublin wouldn't run

Apart from you having an pot stirring agenda what has your incorrect points got to do with the debate about a Dublin-Cork train?

nokia69

corktina wrote: »

that's not a bus, it's a stretch limo and already has to have three axles.

Scale it up from about 12 passengers to about 50 and you start to see the problems of scale.

I'd suggest it has a top speed of 250km/h OR a range of 210 km.


A range of 210 km will just about get you to Cork, what about the rest of the day? you have to have vehicles capable of doing several trips a day.

this is my last post on the subject, I dont want to hijack the thread

it can carry 23 passengers not 12, when it reaches cork it could be charged in less than an hour using a fast charger

yes it has 3 axels but there are plenty of 3 axel buses on the roads now its not a problem

it would be possible to build a 50 passenger bus to do the dublin to cork route, yes you would need a bigger battery maybe a 5 or 600kWh which would be 5 or 6 model S packs, I showed you a picture of the size of the model S pack, your claim that it would be impossible to fit 5 or 6 of these packs in the floor of a bus is just wrong, I even showed you an article from the guardian saying that battery powered intercity trains were possible

the only reason we don't have electric buses now is because of cost, my guess is that they will be on the roads when the battery costs drop, only a matter of time, and I don't mean 100 years

you can post after me and have the last word if you want but I won't reply

nokia69

foggy_lad wrote: »

a car can take up to 18 hours to charge after fully depleted. How long more will those large bus batteries take and how is the bus going to make money during the time it is off the road charging?

charge time depends on the charger used, its possible to charge an electic car in half an hour

steamengine

nokia69 wrote: »

this is my last post on the subject, I dont want to hijack the thread

it can carry 23 passengers not 12, when it reaches cork it could be charged in less than an hour using a fast charger

yes it has 3 axels but there are plenty of 3 axel buses on the roads now its not a problem

it would be possible to build a 50 passenger bus to do the dublin to cork route, yes you would need a bigger battery maybe a 5 or 600kWh which would be 5 or 6 model S packs, I showed you a picture of the size of the model S pack, your claim that it would be impossible to fit 5 or 6 of these packs in the floor of a bus is just wrong, I even showed you an article from the guardian saying that battery powered intercity trains were possible

the only reason we don't have electric buses now is because of cost, my guess is that they will be on the roads when the battery costs drop, only a matter of time, and I don't mean 100 years

you can post after me and have the last word if you want but I won't reply

Indeed, do it any way other than the tried and tested method that every other country uses.

corktina

nokia69 wrote: »

you can post after me and have the last word if you want but I won't reply

ok hope you laast longer than 2 minutes before posting again

damn will you look what happened... :-)

n97 mini

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

That may be the case but it still dosn't justify running new services that would be even more loss making than current services.

Why not run them and see? If there's a more loss making service somewhere else (and I suspect there is), cut it instead.

Jamie2k9

n97 mini wrote: »

Why not run them and see? If there's a more loss making service somewhere else (and I suspect there is), cut it instead.

I agree in theory but of course politics would stop the cut somewhere else.....

Grandeeod

Losty Dublin wrote: »

My point is that the staff are available to and have worked a 24 hour roster for years. Indeed they still do or else services such as the permanent way trains this weekend or 5AM departures towards Dublin wouldn't run

Apart from you having an pot stirring agenda what has your incorrect points got to do with the debate about a Dublin-Cork train?

Where am I pot stirring and where am I incorrect? Furthermore I have not dragged this thread off topic. I'm also curious about why you think I have an agenda. That's a big word around here so let me put you straight. I'm not James Bond. This is not the cold war and your paranoia is astounding. Once something is said that is negative towards CIE or preservation, you tend to play the same card...agenda. I am merely discussing a subject in which I have nothing personally to gain, yet I am still interested in discussing it. Are you capable of doing likewise without the veiled replies that some would consider inflammatory and ultimately lead to things being said that leads to bans etc. I've seen all this before. Please don't assume I have an agenda and certainly don't throw the word into a post directed at me unless you have some clear evidence that I actually have an agenda. Not being a fan of CIE does not make me a person with an agenda. IMO your posting style is designed to cause friction that will draw people into a ban situation. Im not buying it, so just articulate yourself and we can debate issues like adults.

Con Logue

Grandeeod wrote: »

Where am I pot stirring and where am I incorrect? Furthermore I have not dragged this thread off topic. I'm also curious about why you think I have an agenda. That's a big word around here so let me put you straight. I'm not James Bond. This is not the cold war and your paranoia is astounding. Once something is said that is negative towards CIE or preservation, you tend to play the same card...agenda. I am merely discussing a subject in which I have nothing personally to gain, yet I am still interested in discussing it. Are you capable of doing likewise without the veiled replies that some would consider inflammatory and ultimately lead to things being said that leads to bans etc. I've seen all this before. Please don't assume I have an agenda and certainly don't throw the word into a post directed at me unless you have some clear evidence that I actually have an agenda. Not being a fan of CIE does not make me a person with an agenda. IMO your posting style is designed to cause friction that will draw people into a ban situation. Im not buying it, so just articulate yourself and we can debate issues like adults.

It's also possible to not be a fan of CIE and want the railway to survive and thrive. That too is a valid viewpoint, as is a desire to hobble the railways in favour of buses, and every combination of those opinions in between. Not everyone is going to come to C&T with the same basic POV and posters might as well believe that everyone should vote the same way as them as to think that.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are great debaters as well but you don't see everyone joining up either

Grandeeod

Con Logue wrote: »

It's also possible to not be a fan of CIE and want the railway to survive and thrive. That too is a valid viewpoint, as is a desire to hobble the railways in favour of buses, and every combination of those opinions in between. Not everyone is going to come to C&T with the same basic POV and posters might as well believe that everyone should vote the same way as them as to think that.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are great debaters as well but you don't see everyone joining up either

Your recent replies to my posts are rather tiresome. If you have something to say in plain English , just say it. You appear to have got hung up on things I have said about "opinion", but blatantly ignored all the context surrounding those posts.

I believe you are not fully up to speed on the interaction/relationships/understanding and knowledge between posters. You have admitted being absent for a period of time, so respect the limitations that may apply to you. I don't have very many posts and Im not a member for very long, but I have read the forum and noted certain posters for a very long period of time.

Con Logue

Grandeeod wrote: »

Your recent replies to my posts are rather tiresome. If you have something to say in plain English , just say it. You appear to have got hung up on things I have said about "opinion", but blatantly ignored all the context surrounding those posts.

I believe you are not fully up to speed on the interaction/relationships/understanding and knowledge between posters. You have admitted being absent for a period of time, so respect the limitations that may apply to you. I don't have very many posts and Im not a member for very long, but I have read the forum and noted certain posters for a very long period of time.

It's hard to know how to reply to this. It is about as blatant a bit of back seat modding as I have ever seen, and I have been on boards on and off over the past decade.

You are of course free to ignore me if you find me "tiresome". I haven't read anything on boards except on this post that instructs me how not to be a n00b so you will understand that apart from this post, I'm not really going to pay attention to your advice.

Have a nice evening

Richard Logue

Grandeeod wrote: »

Your recent replies to my posts are rather tiresome. If you have something to say in plain English , just say it. You appear to have got hung up on things I have said about "opinion", but blatantly ignored all the context surrounding those posts.

I believe you are not fully up to speed on the interaction/relationships/understanding and knowledge between posters. You have admitted being absent for a period of time, so respect the limitations that may apply to you. I don't have very many posts and Im not a member for very long, but I have read the forum and noted certain posters for a very long period of time.

Sorry but this is the most arrogant tosh I've read on boards for a long time. I did believe you were genuine when you clarified your earlier somewhat inflammatory posts about shutting IC rail, but clearly I was wrong. You're just here to troll.

corktina

A long time? you've only been a member for two months, and even that is longer than your "brother "con who claims to have been a member for ten years.

What other IDs do the Logues have I wonder?

Con Logue

corktina wrote: »

A long time? you've only been a member for two months, and even that is longer than your "brother "con who claims to have been a member for ten years.

What other IDs do the Logues have I wonder?

Search my posts. I have said who I posted as in the past

Grandeeod

Richard Logue wrote: »

Sorry but this is the most arrogant tosh I've read on boards for a long time. I did believe you were genuine when you clarified your earlier somewhat inflammatory posts about shutting IC rail, but clearly I was wrong. You're just here to troll.

I beg your pardon, but I am not a troll and take offense to the accusation.

Con Logue

Grandeeod wrote: »

I beg your pardon, but I am not a troll and take offense to the accusation.

Good man. How's the exposé of the IRRS as a covert lobby group going?

Richard Logue

corktina wrote: »

A long time? you've only been a member for two months, and even that is longer than your "brother "con who claims to have been a member for ten years.

What other IDs do the Logues have I wonder?

Con is my brother Richard, indeed he is my identical twin brother. I was on boards from 1999 until last year as Rlogue, feel free to search for my former user name.

Grandeeod

Con Logue wrote: »

Good man. How's the exposé of the IRRS as a covert lobby group going?

I never mentioned covert or expose in anything I said. I stand over what I have posted. I was once a member of the IRRS and it was a great experience, a great organisation. Spent many a night in the library, many a day on a special and built up a large collection of Journals. Left on good terms due to loss of interest. However I still maintain my view of how the organisation has developed and you would have to be blind not to realise why some people have taken a dislike to it.

Victor

Gentlemen, choose your weapons. https://www.google.ie/search?q=handbags+at+dawn&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.yahoo:en-GB:official&client=firefox&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=0Ux9UdTnEajm7AbQt4G4Aw&biw=1440&bih=737&sei=1kx9UdXUK_Oy7Aa6zYHYAQ#um=1&client=firefox&rls=com.yahoo:en-GB%3Aofficial&hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=handbags&oq=handbags&gs_l=img.3..0l10.31867.31867.0.32132.1.1.0.0.0.0.65.65.1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.11.img.GKz9u5nlOQY&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45645796,d.ZGU&fp=74386358e9e8db9b&biw=1440&bih=737

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dowlingm

bk wrote: »

Intercity coaches and trucks will likely go natural gas first and then hydrogen or other efuels in the long term. Intercity trains in Ireland will likely end up going the same route.

BNSF are making shapes to go with gas on locomotives. Am surprised given the energy density issues with methane and the cost of fueling facilities but Warren Buffett presumably knows what he's at. Certainly given the likelihood of Tier 4 and equivalent Euro standards it might be more feasible to replace existing diesel locos that way than increasingly expensive and difficult to maintain chemical and catalytic solutions for diesel.

In an Irish context though continued access to gas whose price is unlikely to fluctuate wildly every time Gazprom/Putin throws a hissy fit is critical - that might mean shale fracking and serious and in some respects well founded concerns from the enviro lobby - while gas is a cleaner fuel overall, imported fuel is often over the worst of the environmental impact of mining it, such as Alberta oil sands, whereas shale gas *may* be a dirtier fuel *overall* for Ireland and it won't be enough to say "local jobs" like in the peat days.

keithclancy

bk wrote: »

Losty Dublin, what you missed is that almost everyone in the Netherlands uses the OV-Chipkaart, their equivalent of the Leap card and the maximum price of a single train tickets on this card is €20, some even go down to €10 :

http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/reizen/tarieven/instapenbasistarief/

Basically the prices you found, are the more expensive prices they charge for people who they are trying to get off the old way of paying and onto the ov-chipkaart. Kind of like the cheaper leap fares versus cash.

Also note that the €20 is the boarding rate, the max you are charged when you initially tag-on, you will be refunded when you tag-off depending on distance, so the train ticket can even be much cheaper.

Also this allows you to use multiple trains within one journey and also transfer onto trams and buses. So incredibly good value compared to Ireland.

Same price.
Actually the paper ticket is usually cheaper if you're getting a Day Return.

I have a Voordeelurenabonnement card which give 40% off for me and up to 3 other people outside of the morning rush hour.

Only difference is on the Bus or Tram.

I usually get my ticket online and print it out, its usually cheaper than checking in with the Public Transport card (Openbaarvervoerchipkaart) and less hassle as I don't have to check in and check out or wonder if I have enough money loaded on the card.

Compared to Germany (where I work) the Dutch Public transport is relatively expensive.

It is good though.