Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

Just a thought, but is OK to call Eire "Southern Ireland" as like a translation :pac:

Who is trolling his own thread now?

Marcusm

MadsL wrote: »

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

If you were educated in an Irish national school, go back and ask to see the roll books. You'll find it was the same then; I ddn't go to a gaelscoil but even in Wicklow the rolls were called out in Irish, Irish names were used in Irish lessons and we all asked "go mo leath sceail...." Or "an bhfuil cead agam....." To go to the toilets. If you have a problem with this, I can't see a gaelscoil as appropriate; even DoFA will allow you to se an Irish translation for your passport that's not the same as your birthcert.

MadsL

HondaSami wrote: »

Who is trolling his own thread now?

Ah, you are back !!

Not a troll question. Is it a legitimate translation albeit a bad one. I correct it when I hear it but no-one uses Eire except non-Irish, should Southern Ireland be redeemed? Perhaps for another thread.

DyldeBrill

My Irish secondary school teachers always called me by my name "Dylan", which was graaaand!

I remember going to the Gaeltacht though when I was in 1st or 2nd year and teachers of the Gaeltacht started calling me Dilliúin....I did not like this at all at all.

Love the Irish language but can't help hate when teachers go out of their way to make up some bullshít name, just so they can add a Hint of Gaeilge to it.

But OP, if it is her correct Irish name, then there's really no arguing with it.Like the others said, you did send her to a Gaelscoil.

MadsL

DyldeBrill wrote: »

My Irish secondary school teachers always called me by my name "Dylan", which was graaaand!

I remember going to the Gaeltacht though when I was in 1st or 2nd year and teachers of the Gaeltacht started calling me Dilliúin....I did not like this at all at all.

Love the Irish language but can't help hate when teachers go out of their way to make up some bullshít name, just so they can add a Hint of Gaeilge to it.

But OP, if it is her correct Irish name, then there's really no arguing with it.Like the others said, you did send her to a Gaelscoil.

Is there a book I can look it up in? I don't remember her having an Irish name.

Henlars67

Gaelscoil or not, her name is her name, not the Irish translation of it.

Marcusm

Seachmall wrote: »

Her name is English. There may be a common Irish version of it but that's not her name.

Calling someone named John "Sean" is just as incorrect as calling someone named Bláthín "Flower". It doesn't matter how common the name "Sean" is because that's not their name.

The equivalent of Bláthín would be Flora or Fleur; if you're going to cross compare, at least get that bit closer to reality.

Seaneh

MadsL wrote: »

Green card is a lot different to a visa to visit. Ever applied? They do a lot of digging.



I'd heard that alright. Wasn't sure if the registration was done by the pupil or the school.

A green card is just a permenant resident Visa, they do background checks like criminal records, educational level and awards, employment history, they aren't going to ask for the letters the school sent her mother about the parent teacher meeting of the time she didn't produce homework.

The only thing they will look for are official records that matter to the claims she makes on the application ie birth cert, passport, drivers licence, degree/masters diploma, leaving/junior certificate, etc.

You are making up hypotheticals for no reason other than dragging the arse of something that doesn't matter a ****e.

Marcusm

MadsL wrote: »

I have attended parent teacher meetings where despite me apologising for not speaking Irish, one teacher continued in Irish until I stopped again, apologised repeated that I didn't speak Irish.

Interesting that your daughter got into the school, I thought many had a policy of only admitting children from homes where Irish could or would be spoken by both parents. My sister in law has been attending weekly classes for 2 years to make up for this deficiency in anticipation of te child's entry.

Before there's criticism, this is not just a feature of Irish language schools. As an expat, I've seen tis with colleagues children seeking to attend French and Swiss specialist schools.

DyldeBrill

MadsL wrote: »

Is there a book I can look it up in? I don't remember her having an Irish name.

Would help me so much more if you gave me the name but I understand your reasons for not doing so.

I'm sure there is a book, but nothing that I know of the top of my head. There's a lot of books for surnames in Irish so I'm sure there's one for forename's also.

Is your daughters name an Irish or Celtic name?

Seachmall

Marcusm wrote: »

The equivalent of Bláthín would be Flora or Fleur; if you're going to cross compare, at least get that bit closer to reality.

It could translate to "Dog's Arse" for all I care, her name would still be the same.

MadsL

Seaneh wrote: »

A green card is just a permenant resident Visa, they do background checks like criminal records, educational level and awards, employment history, they aren't going to ask for the letters the school sent her mother about the parent teacher meeting of the time she didn't produce homework.

The only thing they will look for are official records that matter to the claims she makes on the application ie birth cert, passport, drivers licence, degree/masters diploma, leaving/junior certificate, etc.

You are making up hypotheticals for no reason other than dragging the arse of something that doesn't matter a ****e.

You are quite the expert on immigration. Have you ever applied and been through the process? Forms and documents are one thing, but interviews are conducted in great detail.

Studying in the US may also copies of school records.

I'm not saying that any of this will cause a problem - just that all the name changes get complex, and the school added one more without a lot of say in the matter.

DyldeBrill

Marcusm wrote: »

Interesting that your daughter got into the school, I thought many had a policy of only admitting children from homes where Irish could or would be spoken by both parents. My sister in law has been attending weekly classes for 2 years to make up for this deficiency in anticipation of te child's entry.

Before there's criticism, this is not just a feature of Irish language schools. As an expat, I've seen tis with colleagues children seeking to attend French and Swiss specialist schools.

Very rare that this is a necessity that both parents.Maybe this is the case in some Gaelscoils, but its certainly not the case in the Irish schools I know of.

I went to Primary and Secondary Irish speaking schools with both my parents being absolutely useless at the language. My Dad did have a few words but nothing major. Of course it does help if they do, but again it's not a necessity.

argirl

It does cause problems; my Irish name was on my Junior Certificate (didn't do the leaving) - carried on studying as a mature student abroad a couple of years ago and had to have the Junior Cert changed by the board of education, have the certificate attested by the embassy etc. Took months and lots of hassle.

At the end of the day, your name is your name - it should not be changed, whether you are in an Irish school or a German or French school.

MadsL

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Would help me so much more if you gave me the name but I understand your reasons for not doing so.

I'm sure there is a book, but nothing that I know of the top of my head. There's a lot of books for surnames in Irish so I'm sure there's one for forename's also.

Is your daughters name an Irish or Celtic name?

Define Celtic? Hell, define Irish. There are Slavs who claim Celtic ancestry. And the modern Irish weren't Celts. See how silly these cultural name games are?

As far as I know (or anyone knows) her name is originally Hebrew

argirl

Also, I was 4 when I started school and it was really confusing to suddenly have a different name!!

DyldeBrill

argirl wrote: »

It does cause problems; my Irish name was on my Junior Certificate (didn't do the leaving) - carried on studying as a mature student abroad a couple of years ago and had to have the Junior Cert changed by the board of education, have the certificate attested by the embassy etc. Took months and lots of hassle.

At the end of the day, your name is your name - it should not be changed, whether you are in an Irish school or a German or French school.

You have the choice to put down either your Irish or English name.

Choice was left to you

argirl

DyldeBrill wrote: »

You have the choice to put down either your Irish or English name.

Choice was left to you

No actually, my school filled in any forms etc, not me.

Marcusm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

The defence of this practice seems to be tradition - that's what gaelscoilleanna do and that's that. Not good enough in my opinion. The Islamic school in Dublin doesn't 'translate' students' names into Arabic. The German school in Dublin doesn't 'translate' their names into German. The Anglophone schools don't do it either. Only the gaelscoilleanna do this. To me it smacks of a cultural inferiority complex.

I think the difference here however is that the gaelscoil is trying to preserve the Irish language and cultural identity. For the pupils with an Irish heritage, part o f this would be using the names by which they would have been called had there not had been a broad Anglicisation 170 or so years previously (coincident for the most part with the opening of national schools). Applying the same reverse translation to a person of mixed or non Irish heritage would be less obviously appropriate. I find it surprising that the OP's daughter embraces her Irish surname and not her given name. It does, however, lay lie to his indignation in part. She's willing to have one but not the other. Life's about compromise.

MadsL

DyldeBrill wrote: »

You have the choice to put down either your Irish or English name.

Choice was left to you

Isn't it funny that the choice is up to you on the form you complete to do the exam - but there is no choice when you are studying for it...:(

argirl

Some Irish translated names are just awful; a girl in my school was called Debbie, which translated to 'Gobnait'!! :eek:

DyldeBrill

MadsL wrote: »

Define Celtic? Hell, define Irish. There are Slavs who claim Celtic ancestry. And the modern Irish weren't Celts. See how silly these cultural name games are?

As far as I know (or anyone knows) her name is originally Hebrew

True! Its hard to explain in a way.With names of historic significance , an Irish name will be created.

But if its Hebrew then I doubt there's an Irish version and there certainly shouldn't be one.

HondaSami

argirl wrote: »

It does cause problems; my Irish name was on my Junior Certificate (didn't do the leaving) - carried on studying as a mature student abroad a couple of years ago and had to have the Junior Cert changed by the board of education, have the certificate attested by the embassy etc. Took months and lots of hassle.

At the end of the day, your name is your name - it should not be changed, whether you are in an Irish school or a German or French school.

argirl wrote: »

Also, I was 4 when I started school and it was really confusing to suddenly have a different name!!

argirl wrote: »

No actually, my school filled in any forms etc, not me.

welcome back, you still in UAE? Wonder why this thread interest you :rolleyes:

Marcusm

MadsL wrote: »

As far as I know (or anyone knows) her name is originally Hebrew

This does rather undermine you point; if you wish to retain purity surely she should use the Ashuri script and Hebrew pronunciation; otherwise, if you accept a translation into English for one purpose, surely there is little purpose in fighting a translation into Irish for another. If you see the name as having historic or cultural resonance, remain true to it. An English transaction of it is hardly that.

DyldeBrill

argirl wrote: »

No actually, my school filled in any forms etc, not me.

What forms are these? It's you who signs into the exam.

Remember I got to choose my name and that was solely up to me

MadsL

DyldeBrill wrote: »

True! Its hard to explain in a way.With names of historic significance , an Irish name will be created.

But if its Hebrew then I doubt there's an Irish version and there certainly shouldn't be one.

Oh there's an Irish "version" alright. But spelled and pronounced differently.

Daughter is like I'm grand thanks, teachers 'correct' her (and me) pronouncing her own name.

DyldeBrill

Marcusm wrote: »

I think the difference here however is that the gaelscoil is trying to preserve the Irish language and cultural identity. For the pupils with an Irish heritage, part o f this would be using the names by which they would have been called had there not had been a broad Anglicisation 170 or so years previously (coincident for the most part with the opening of national schools). Applying the same reverse translation to a person of mixed or non Irish heritage would be less obviously appropriate. I find it surprising that the OP's daughter embraces her Irish surname and not her given name. It does, however, lay lie to his indignation in part. She's willing to have one but not the other. Life's about compromise.

oh gawwd this could open up to another argument, with the Irish identity talk

argirl

DyldeBrill wrote: »

What forms are these? It's you who signs into the exam.

Remember I got to choose my name and that was solely up to me

???

DyldeBrill

MadsL wrote: »

Oh there's an Irish "version" alright. But spelled and pronounced differently.

Daughter is like I'm grand thanks, teachers 'correct' her (and me) pronouncing her own name.

Well as an Irish speaker I can't help but feel embarrassed about that.

Have a good stern word with them.Unless its written in their rule book, demand they start calling your daughter by her name.

argirl

HondaSami wrote: »

welcome back, you still in UAE? Wonder why this thread interest you :rolleyes:

???