Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

Iwasfrozen

username123 wrote: »

She just doesnt like it. Why dont you set her a good example and tell her to appreciate her good education and not be bothering about silly things.

To not question authority is not a good example.

LordSutch

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope, another example of the latent hypocrisy.

Why so? its a valid question.

Iwasfrozen

LordSutch wrote: »

Why so? its a valid question.

They can't be gaelicised because they have no gaelic meaning, just another example to point out the hypocrisy of these politically motivated teachers.

reprazant

Why is changing the surname to Irish ok but not the first name?

Surely, if it was your intention for the surname to be in Irish, it would be on the birth cert in Irish?

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

Why is changing the surname to Irish ok but not the first name?

Surely, if it was your intention for the surname to be in Irish, it would be on the birth cert in Irish?

Are you missing the rather crucial part about being forced to adopt a First name by the school?
I don't think I was ever complaining about a free choice of which name to use

osarusan

I'm going to go into my class tomorrow and tell my students they all have new names.

Right, Tomoyuki, you're Thomas....Hiromasa, you're.....Harry...Maki, you're Mary...and so on.

Why? Because I'm the teacher, and I'll do what I want with their names. It's an English class after all, so why would they complain?

username123

Apparently you can do the deed poll thing if she is between 14-17 so long as there is the consent of both parents.

Does she not have other common usage of her name besides school records? Sports club or classes or GP records etc?

Iwasfrozen

MadsL wrote: »

Are you missing the rather crucial part about being forced to adopt a First name by the school?
I don't think I was ever complaining about a free choice of which name to use

And yet if there was a parent on here complaining about his Daithi being called David there'd be an uproar from the above poster. Take no notice.

MadsL

osarusan wrote: »

I'm going to go into my class tomorrow and tell my students they all have new names.

Right, Tomoyuki, you're Thomas....Hiromasa, you're.....Harry...Maki, you're Mary...and so on.

Why? Because I'm the teacher, and I'll do what I want with their names. It's an English class after all, so why would they complain?

Please try it and report back.

Be also sure to tell them they must use them all the way home and they will be suspended if they use their Japanese name whilst travelling to and from school.

username123

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

To not question authority is not a good example.

I never said it was - but THIS particular gripe is a silly thing - IMO.

Id be more concerned that my child was studying and learning in school. Again, this is only my opinion.

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

Are you missing the rather crucial part about being forced to adopt a First name by the school?
I don't think I was ever complaining about a free choice of which name to use

But did you not say that on the birth cert, both her surname are in English yet her primary school was the first to use an Irish surname? Now her new school is using both an Irish first name and surname?

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

Apparently you can do the deed poll thing if she is between 14-17 so long as there is the consent of both parents.

I can't get the Passport office, an Irish Consul and the Embassy to agree on the process for getting her passport renewal signed at the moment. Deed poll signatures will be a Kafka comedy I would say.

Does she not have other common usage of her name besides school records? Sports club or classes or GP records etc?

She might, worth establishing some.

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

But did you not say that on the birth cert, both her surname are in English yet her primary school was the first to use an Irish surname? Now her new school is using both an Irish first name and surname?

Yes, she chose to do that.

You are struggling with this a bit aren't you.

Iwasfrozen

username123 wrote: »

I never said it was - but THIS particular gripe is a silly thing - IMO.

Id be more concerned that my child was studying and learning in school. Again, this is only my opinion.

It's not silly, names are closely linked with identity. Change the language of the name and you change the person's identity. No one has the right to force any culture or ideology onto a young impressionable mind.

LordSutch

username123 wrote: »

Apparently you can do the deed poll thing if she is between 14-17 so long as there is the consent of both parents.

The RTE newsreader Sharon ni Bheolain (Sharon Boylan) did that I think?

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

I never said it was - but THIS particular gripe is a silly thing - IMO.

Id be more concerned that my child was studying and learning in school. Again, this is only my opinion.

She is, and doing well.

Be nice if some teachers were more polite about not correcting how she says her name.

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

Yes, she chose to do that.

You are struggling with this a bit aren't you.

Not as much as you are struggling not to be condescending again.

I am struggling with the bit where a 4 year old chooses her own name that is different from either surnames on her actual birth cert.

Iwasfrozen

MadsL wrote: »

She is, and doing well.

Be nice if some teachers were more polite about not correcting how she says her name.

The use of the word correcting implies a superiority of the irish version. They aren't correcting they're imposing.

Sleepy

OP, I agree with you that the school are wrong.

However, you really should have expected this kind of bollox when you put the child in a Gaelscoil in the first place. The demographic attracted to them for the Irish language (rather than the avoidance of lower socio-economic groups or to take advantage of the nonsensical bonus points) tend to be rather belligerent about the use of Irish in the first place. I think it goes without saying, that on this basis, one can only assume that the teachers in such an institution will be of a similar ilk if not even more extreme about it.

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

Are you missing the rather crucial part about being forced to adopt a First name by the school?
I don't think I was ever complaining about a free choice of which name to use

On any given day in school how many times do teachers actually call your name out? If you think about it - either in primary or secondary school? 5-6 max, some days less.

Given it takes less than 1 second to say a name, that's what about 5 seconds out of 24,000 seconds in any given school day.

It's really typifying the expression "making a mountain out of a molehill".

Also, and this is just an aside, when has the internet become so dastardly devious and scary that revealing first names is a no-no? I've always understood revealing surnames to be a bit faux-pas risky, but like this whole thread could have been helped by knowing the name and offering some input on why/where the Irish translation of it is going awry.

Or more to the point, if your daughter is just being silly. As in lets propose her name is sort of unique (thus easily 'findable' hence your refusal) like Tulisa and the Irish teachers go for something like Tólisa just to make it sound Irishy, then we could probably offer the opinion "so what ffs!".

If you choose to start a thread having a pop at the intrinsic nature by which Irish-speaking schools translate proper nouns and first names, might help your cause to actually have the name in question!! Whilst it may not matter to you, and you may just have a problem with the fundamentals of it, it may shed more light on the situation.

username123

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not silly, names are closely linked with identity. Change the language of the name and you change the person's identity. No one has the right to force any culture or ideology onto a young impressionable mind.

You are entitled to your opinion but I think its nonsense. I am who I am no matter what someone refers to me as. My personal identity is not threatened by a name change. If your sense of identity is that fragile then a name change is the least of your worries.

Iwasfrozen

username123 wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion but I think its nonsense. I am who I am no matter what someone refers to me as. My personal identity is not threatened by a name change. If your sense of identity is that fragile then a name change is the least of your worries.

You're naive if you think Henry is the same thing as Heinrich or Frederick as Frédéric. The name implies a cultural affinity, it is not the place of teachers to impose their own cultural affinity to children. Like I said change the name you change the person's identity and how they see themselves. This is only a part of a wider rotten problem within the irish language community.

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

Not as much as you are struggling not to be condescending again.

I am struggling with the bit where a 4 year old chooses her own name that is different from either surnames on her actual birth cert.

Struggle away. Do you to be called English English or English Irish when you go to school is just as easy a choice as milk or a banana.

That help?

The point is she did NOT make that choice at 2nd level - it was forced on her.

MadsL

username123 wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion but I think its nonsense. I am who I am no matter what someone refers to me as. My personal identity is not threatened by a name change. If your sense of identity is that fragile then a name change is the least of your worries.

Change your username to JustinBeiberLover for a week then.

rubadub

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Probably not, as Flower wouldn't usually be seen as an 'acceptable' translation for Bláthín when using her name in a different language.

However, change that to 'David' for 'Daithí' and my answer is different. I think that's acceptable. It's all about what the generally accepted translation is and whether it sounds 'correct' or not. It's all about the semantics and the conventions involved with the languages. That might seem nonsensical to you but that's just the way it is.

I would not go as far as calling it nonsense, but it is certainly not the most sensible thing to do. The sensible thing to do is not to change it. Then there is no debate or need for decision on what is acceptable or not, like who decides what translation of Bláthín is acceptable if a child was to go to a hypothetical strict english speaking school in the UK with some similar rule on translating names.

Why is this done anyway? seriously? Is it to teach the child their name in the language, are they worried they will forget or something?

MadsL

wonderfullife wrote: »

On any given day in school how many times do teachers actually call your name out? If you think about it - either in primary or secondary school? 5-6 max, some days less.

Given it takes less than 1 second to say a name, that's what about 5 seconds out of 24,000 seconds in any given school day.

It's really typifying the expression "making a mountain out of a molehill".

Also, and this is just an aside, when has the internet become so dastardly devious and scary that revealing first names is a no-no? I've always understood revealing surnames to be a bit faux-pas risky, but like this whole thread could have been helped by knowing the name and offering some input on why/where the Irish translation of it is going awry.

Or more to the point, if your daughter is just being silly. As in lets propose her name is sort of unique (thus easily 'findable' hence your refusal) like Tulisa and the Irish teachers go for something like Tólisa just to make it sound Irishy, then we could probably offer the opinion "so what ffs!".

If you choose to start a thread having a pop at the intrinsic nature by which Irish-speaking schools translate proper nouns and first names, might help your cause to actually have the name in question!! Whilst it may not matter to you, and you may just have a problem with the fundamentals of it, it may shed more light on the situation.

It is pointless to debate the actual name as I could just make one up. Is it really hard to deal with some slightly abstract thought?

miss no stars

Seachmall wrote: »

Them pronouncing it wrong would be even more annoying.

This. I've a very unusual surname. In 3rd class the teacher got it wrong all year and I snapped during the year and called her rude for not bothering to learn my name and mispronouncing it ALL YEAR and even telling me that I was pronouncing it incorrectly. She tried to give out to me, and subsequently my parents ate the head off her and said I was absolutely in the right. I'd been trying to politely tell her my correct name all year and she'd been ignoring it and from now on the teacher should use my correct name, end of. Never again did she mispronounce my name, because a name is not up for question, it's a name.

In the OP's case it sounds like the child has no problem with her name being translated, providing it's translated correctly, but the school haven't done that and all she wants is to be called by her actual name and not one that's different but sounds vaguely similar. It'd be like calling Marion Maire-Aine by the sounds of it. Similar sounding, but not the same name.

username123

MadsL wrote: »

Change your username to JustinBeiberLover for a week then.

I actually had originally typed that post to include the sentence "but not something offensive" and then thought I was making a far too obvious point. Clearly not.

An Coilean

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not silly, names are closely linked with identity. Change the language of the name and you change the person's identity. No one has the right to force any culture or ideology onto a young impressionable mind.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're naive if you think Henry is the same thing as Heinrich or Frederick as Frédéric. The name implies a cultural affinity, it is not the place of teachers to impose their own cultural affinity to children. Like I said change the name you change the person's identity and how they see themselves. This is only a part of a wider rotten problem within the irish language community.

You're an awfull hyprocrite you know that, an incident where an authority figure tries to force Irish on someone and you're up in arms, but if it were an incident where an authority figure tries to force English on someone you would have a different tune.

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

Struggle away. Do you to be called English English or English Irish when you go to school is just as easy a choice as milk or a banana.

That help?

The point is she did NOT make that choice at 2nd level - it was forced on her.

My god, you are actually incapable of discussing things like an adult.

Right, I am out.

I'd imagine one could get a more mature discussion with your teenage daughter rather than with you.