Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

Or another way of saying that it is quite a strange and unusual thing for a 4 year old to do. I don't know many people who cared about their name at 4 or 4 year old's who care about their name. Doesn't mean I didn't believe you, just that I struggled with the idea. Believe it or not, I was one a 4 year old and I didn't not care one iota about either my first name nor my surname. Hence me thinking it was unusual and struggling with the idea.

You are just coming across as someone who is looking for an argument and is finding one no matter what people are asking. People asking simple questions are getting aggressive, sneering replies which rankles them and so they reply with the same and then you get what you seemingly want.

And your first post on returning to this thread was a searing attack on my posting style. You got the argument you went looking for.

Witchie

Always peed me off in my primary school that they insisted on calling me Sile. Is that really Julie in Irish. Think my teacher just called me that coz she was a bi**h and it stuck.

I am the person who choose my kids names and only them or I have the right to change it so I would be annoyed at the school too.

Seachmall

Alaia Whining Army wrote: »

lol, is this thread still going? Just call the school up and say "Hey, this is Madsl. My daughter Y doesn't like being called X and we'd prefer it if the teachers referred to her by her proper name. Thanks." *click*

"Hey, this is MadsL..."

"Who?"

"MadsL"

"Who??"

"...MiresL..."

"Oh, X's father!"

Dan_Solo

An Coilean wrote: »

Yet when an English speaker tries to do the same, it is not 'part of a wider rotten problem' in fact if you are to be believed, should an Irish speaker dare to object to it, they are being a gob****e.

OK so, I can ask yet again.
Is it OK to refuse Irish names in an English speaking school and to assign random English names if there is no possible equivalent?
And do Poles, Nigerians and Malaysians get completely new Irish names in Gaelscoils when there isn't any Irish names that conveniently sound a bit like them?
(don't bother, I know for a fact they don't)

Dan_Solo

wonderfullife wrote: »

Just your posts i come across always indicated you spent a large period of your life in the USA and i was going to draw a conclusion of sorts from that, which could be then torn apart thus creating another 40 posts :rolleyes:

Thankfully everyone seems to have got that before you even had to reply.

4zn76tysfajdxp

reprazant wrote: »

You are just coming across as someone who is looking for an argument and is finding one no matter what people are asking.

Ah now, in fairness, he did say...

MadsL wrote: »

I like a good scrap in debate, some thin skins around her though.

Oh. Never mind. I guess he does just like the drama.

MadsL

Seachmall wrote: »

"Hey, this is MadsL..."

"Who?"

"MadsL"

"Who??"

"...MiresL..."

"Oh, X's father!"

Z, it's Z. Ah fck it!!

Boo2112

MadsL wrote: »

Here we go again...

Nope. What bearing does my nationality, marital status, number of kids, height, weight etc or any of the other irrelevant things I have been asked have to do with the topic???

Why do people always want to pigeonhole?

Can you actally answer a single post in a civil manner? Its one thing fighing for something you believe in but I genuinely think you just fight for the sake of it. I won't be giving you any more seemingly much craved attention either. Op you never wanted an answer so why post a question?!

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

And your first post on returning to this thread was a searing attack on my posting style. You got the argument you went looking for.

No, my first post was that the thread as much ado about nothing.

As it went on, and you got more sneering and condescending, I made my point about your posting style.

But then, I guess you are right and I, along with the others who have made the same observations, are all wrong. By all means, continue on.

MadsL

Alaia Whining Army wrote: »

Oh. Never mind. I guess he does just like the drama.

Imagine AH with no drama. Ugh.

Burble Burble
Good point
Burble Burble
Well Said
Burble Burble Burble
Hear Hear

We have the Seanad for that

ZZZZZZZZZZZ

MadsL

You came back to the thread with this charming accolade

reprazant wrote: »

Since you are coming across as massively condescending in most of your posts, you probably owe everyone an apology tbf.

I'm sorry everyone.

All better now?

Hug?

MadsL

Boo2112 wrote: »

Can you actally answer a single post in a civil manner? Its one thing fighing for something you believe in but I genuinely think you just fight for the sake of it. I won't be giving you any more seemingly much craved attention either. Op you never wanted an answer so why post a question?!

We got 763+ posts out of it, and I got some ideas, some fun and I got to get Username123 to agree to change his username. Well worth it I would say.

Oh..did you think Ah was for serious debate and all?

Paramite Pie

rubadub wrote: »

Is it usual to translate other names into Irish, like in History classes?

Not sure but I wouldn't put it past some people. Then again historical names are often Anglised too but we just don't realise it. So we Anglophones do it too.:P

As mention earlier in the thread should be Yo-suff Stalin not Joseph as we tend to say.

Also St. Patrick would have called himself 'Patricius' since he came from Roman Britain. Hercules was actually Heracles, Nostradamus was really Michel de Nostredame.

I see no problem with historical Irish figures using names as Gaeilge as it is historically accurate, but not for historical figures that were not written about at that time. Modern names should be left as they are.

And I agree with the OP. Sarah is not the same name as Sorcha. One is a bible name and the other is a Gaelic name of unrelated origin. Pushing this on students is wrong.

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

How will it enhance the debate?

well, as i said, if the name they are calling her is for example her exact name pronounced a bit Irishy, it may just be a case of telling her it's really no big deal. Which it isn't. whereas if the translation is miles off, then it might be a case of having a genuine case to argue.

MadsL

wonderfullife wrote: »

well, as i said, if the name they are calling her is for example her exact name pronounced a bit Irishy, it may just be a case of telling her it's really no big deal. Which it isn't. whereas if the translation is miles off, then it might be a case of having a genuine case to argue.

But why shoud she be forced to accept any other name than the one she has and likes? I don't see any educational advantage at all. The immersion arguement doesn't work at 2nd level as they are all fluent anyway.

Duggys Housemate

Is the problem here that the name is not really translatable? I think the OP is reasonable enough, Proper names are proper names and even if we are ok ( used to) James being translated as Seamus, translating Ewan to Sean, or Eoin is rubbish.

( I also hate the use of Irish names in English - like Eire - where a translation exists).

miss no stars

MadsL wrote: »

But why shoud she be forced to accept any other name than the one she has and likes? I don't see any educational advantage at all. The immersion arguement doesn't work at 2nd level as they are all fluent anyway.

If the name they're using is not her own name or a proper, real translation of her name, go down to the school and let them know that you're concerned as it's affecting the documentation of her common usage of her name by changing what her name actually is. Explain that if she were ever to need a visa she'd have awful trouble explaining why a different name is being used, as opposed to translation of her name and you just see that causing all worlds of trouble in the future - explaining a translation of a name to immigration staff is one thing, explaining an entirely different name is another thing. Just tell them that they must either provide an accurate translation, with which you'd have NO problem, or use her legally documented first name. Simples.

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

But why shoud she be forced to accept any other name than the one she has and likes? I don't see any educational advantage at all. The immersion arguement doesn't work at 2nd level as they are all fluent anyway.

She's not being forced to accept anything. If she wants to protest it, next time a teacher calls her name in Irish she can just ignore them.

I personally don't see why it is a massive issue though, as i said teachers will only use names for a brief period in any given day, if they want to call me Homer Simpson go for it, all i really cared about is having my homework done and getting home.

miss no stars

wonderfullife wrote: »

She's not being forced to accept anything. If she wants to protest it, next time a teacher calls her name in Irish she can just ignore them.

I personally don't see why it is a massive issue though, as i said teachers will only use names for a brief period in any given day, if they want to call me Homer Simpson go for it, all i really cared about is having my homework done and getting home.

It's the problem with documentation - like her leaving cert. And the teacher by the sounds of it isn't calling her name in Irish, the teacher is calling out a name that bears no relation to her and trying to make her accept it!

wonderfullife

miss no stars wrote: »

It's the problem with documentation - like her leaving cert. And the teacher by the sounds of it isn't calling her name in Irish, the teacher is calling out a name that bears no relation to her and trying to make her accept it!

If it's a fee paying school it's pretty simple, i ain't paying until they call her what she wants to be called.

Mind you, an easier way is to pull the emotional card and say it's really upsetting her. Nobody wants to be associated with upsetting students.

This could be resolved rather easily i suspect but not through this forum.

squod

ósarusán wrote: »

Right, Tomoyuki, you're Thomas....Hiromasa, you're.....Harry...Maki, you're Mary...and so on.

Wouldn't do that with Seiichi or Raidyn

MadsL

wonderfullife wrote: »

If it's a fee paying school it's pretty simple, i ain't paying until they call her what she wants to be called.

Mind you, an easier way is to pull the emotional card and say it's really upsetting her. Nobody wants to be associated with upsetting students.

This could be resolved rather easily i suspect but not through this forum.

As I said earlier, I need to do a bit of research what will be needed for a future passport/visa scenario relating to school records.

Plus it is polite to ask my daughters viewpoint before wading in with size nines.

Oranage2

MadsL wrote: »

As I said earlier, I need to do a bit of research what will be needed for a future passport/visa scenario relating to school records.

Plus it is polite to ask my daughters viewpoint before wading in with size nines.

Small enough feet...

Honey-ec

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Is the problem here that the name is not really translatable? I think the OP is reasonable enough, Proper names are proper names and even if we are ok ( used to) James being translated as Seamus, translating Ewan to Sean, or Eoin is rubbish.

( I also hate the use of Irish names in English - like Eire - where a translation exists).

You do realise you've just directly contradicted yourself, yes?

Proper nouns should either be translated or they shouldn't. If they should't, as you first stated, then Eire should never have been translated to Ireland in the first place.

You can't have it both ways.

MadsL

Oranage2 wrote: »

Small enough feet...

US size 9 too.

Oranage2

MadsL wrote: »

US size 9 too.

Thank you.

I just needed that information to finish my character profile of you and your daughter,it all makes sense now

Duggys Housemate

Honey-ec wrote: »

You do realise you've just directly contradicted yourself, yes?

Proper nouns should either be translated or they shouldn't. If they should't, as you first stated, then Eire should never have been translated to Ireland in the first place.

You can't have it both ways.

Where TF did I have it both ways? I said "we were used to James = Seamas" but as an exception to the rule.

Seaneh

MadsL wrote: »

As I said earlier, I need to do a bit of research what will be needed for a future passport/visa scenario relating to school records.

Plus it is polite to ask my daughters viewpoint before wading in with size nines.

How in the name of **** would second level school records have any bearing on a visa application and how would it possibly every affect her passport?

As for a Leaving/Junior Certificate, when you register for the exam and pay the exam fee you fill out the form yourself and put your own name on it, so the school could be calling her Genghis Khan and it wouldn't matter and her Certificate will say her actual name.

MadsL

Seaneh wrote: »

How in the name of **** would second level school records have any bearing on a visa application and how would it possibly every affect her passport?

Green card is a lot different to a visa to visit. Ever applied? They do a lot of digging.

As for a Leaving/Junior Certificate, when you register for the exam and pay the exam fee you fill out the form yourself and put your own name on it, so the school could be calling her Genghis Khan and it wouldn't matter and her Certificate will say her actual name.

I'd heard that alright. Wasn't sure if the registration was done by the pupil or the school.

MadsL

Just a thought, but is OK to call Eire "Southern Ireland" as like a translation :pac: