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Child Item

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

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Marcusm

Seachmall wrote: »

Her name is English. There may be a common Irish version of it but that's not her name.

Calling someone named John "Sean" is just as incorrect as calling someone named Bláthín "Flower". It doesn't matter how common the name "Sean" is because that's not their name.

The equivalent of Bláthín would be Flora or Fleur; if you're going to cross compare, at least get that bit closer to reality.

Henlars67

Gaelscoil or not, her name is her name, not the Irish translation of it.

MadsL

DyldeBrill wrote: »

My Irish secondary school teachers always called me by my name "Dylan", which was graaaand!

I remember going to the Gaeltacht though when I was in 1st or 2nd year and teachers of the Gaeltacht started calling me Dilliúin....I did not like this at all at all.

Love the Irish language but can't help hate when teachers go out of their way to make up some bullshít name, just so they can add a Hint of Gaeilge to it.

But OP, if it is her correct Irish name, then there's really no arguing with it.Like the others said, you did send her to a Gaelscoil.

Is there a book I can look it up in? I don't remember her having an Irish name.

DyldeBrill

My Irish secondary school teachers always called me by my name "Dylan", which was graaaand!

I remember going to the Gaeltacht though when I was in 1st or 2nd year and teachers of the Gaeltacht started calling me Dilliúin....I did not like this at all at all.

Love the Irish language but can't help hate when teachers go out of their way to make up some bullshít name, just so they can add a Hint of Gaeilge to it.

But OP, if it is her correct Irish name, then there's really no arguing with it.Like the others said, you did send her to a Gaelscoil.

MadsL

HondaSami wrote: »

Who is trolling his own thread now?

Ah, you are back !!

Not a troll question. Is it a legitimate translation albeit a bad one. I correct it when I hear it but no-one uses Eire except non-Irish, should Southern Ireland be redeemed? Perhaps for another thread.

Marcusm

MadsL wrote: »

Two years. She has tried and tried. All the documentation that the school have is in her "translated" name. I suspect this may cause future problems with emigration. Her passport also has an additional surname.

If you were educated in an Irish national school, go back and ask to see the roll books. You'll find it was the same then; I ddn't go to a gaelscoil but even in Wicklow the rolls were called out in Irish, Irish names were used in Irish lessons and we all asked "go mo leath sceail...." Or "an bhfuil cead agam....." To go to the toilets. If you have a problem with this, I can't see a gaelscoil as appropriate; even DoFA will allow you to se an Irish translation for your passport that's not the same as your birthcert.

HondaSami

MadsL wrote: »

Just a thought, but is OK to call Eire "Southern Ireland" as like a translation :pac:

Who is trolling his own thread now?

MadsL

Just a thought, but is OK to call Eire "Southern Ireland" as like a translation

:pac:

MadsL

Seaneh wrote: »

How in the name of **** would second level school records have any bearing on a visa application and how would it possibly every affect her passport?

Green card is a lot different to a visa to visit. Ever applied? They do a lot of digging.

As for a Leaving/Junior Certificate, when you register for the exam and pay the exam fee you fill out the form yourself and put your own name on it, so the school could be calling her Genghis Khan and it wouldn't matter and her Certificate will say her actual name.

I'd heard that alright. Wasn't sure if the registration was done by the pupil or the school.

Seaneh

MadsL wrote: »

As I said earlier, I need to do a bit of research what will be needed for a future passport/visa scenario relating to school records.

Plus it is polite to ask my daughters viewpoint before wading in with size nines.

How in the name of **** would second level school records have any bearing on a visa application and how would it possibly every affect her passport?

As for a Leaving/Junior Certificate, when you register for the exam and pay the exam fee you fill out the form yourself and put your own name on it, so the school could be calling her Genghis Khan and it wouldn't matter and her Certificate will say her actual name.

Duggys Housemate

Honey-ec wrote: »

You do realise you've just directly contradicted yourself, yes?

Proper nouns should either be translated or they shouldn't. If they should't, as you first stated, then Eire should never have been translated to Ireland in the first place.

You can't have it both ways.

Where TF did I have it both ways? I said "we were used to James = Seamas" but as an exception to the rule.

Oranage2

MadsL wrote: »

US size 9 too.

Thank you.

I just needed that information to finish my character profile of you and your daughter,it all makes sense now

MadsL

Oranage2 wrote: »

Small enough feet...

US size 9 too.

Honey-ec

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Is the problem here that the name is not really translatable? I think the OP is reasonable enough, Proper names are proper names and even if we are ok ( used to) James being translated as Seamus, translating Ewan to Sean, or Eoin is rubbish.

( I also hate the use of Irish names in English - like Eire - where a translation exists).

You do realise you've just directly contradicted yourself, yes?

Proper nouns should either be translated or they shouldn't. If they should't, as you first stated, then Eire should never have been translated to Ireland in the first place.

You can't have it both ways.

Oranage2

MadsL wrote: »

As I said earlier, I need to do a bit of research what will be needed for a future passport/visa scenario relating to school records.

Plus it is polite to ask my daughters viewpoint before wading in with size nines.

Small enough feet...

MadsL

wonderfullife wrote: »

If it's a fee paying school it's pretty simple, i ain't paying until they call her what she wants to be called.

Mind you, an easier way is to pull the emotional card and say it's really upsetting her. Nobody wants to be associated with upsetting students.

This could be resolved rather easily i suspect but not through this forum.

As I said earlier, I need to do a bit of research what will be needed for a future passport/visa scenario relating to school records.

Plus it is polite to ask my daughters viewpoint before wading in with size nines.

squod

ósarusán wrote: »

Right, Tomoyuki, you're Thomas....Hiromasa, you're.....Harry...Maki, you're Mary...and so on.

Wouldn't do that with Seiichi or Raidyn

wonderfullife

miss no stars wrote: »

It's the problem with documentation - like her leaving cert. And the teacher by the sounds of it isn't calling her name in Irish, the teacher is calling out a name that bears no relation to her and trying to make her accept it!

If it's a fee paying school it's pretty simple, i ain't paying until they call her what she wants to be called.

Mind you, an easier way is to pull the emotional card and say it's really upsetting her. Nobody wants to be associated with upsetting students.

This could be resolved rather easily i suspect but not through this forum.

miss no stars

wonderfullife wrote: »

She's not being forced to accept anything. If she wants to protest it, next time a teacher calls her name in Irish she can just ignore them.

I personally don't see why it is a massive issue though, as i said teachers will only use names for a brief period in any given day, if they want to call me Homer Simpson go for it, all i really cared about is having my homework done and getting home.

It's the problem with documentation - like her leaving cert. And the teacher by the sounds of it isn't calling her name in Irish, the teacher is calling out a name that bears no relation to her and trying to make her accept it!

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

But why shoud she be forced to accept any other name than the one she has and likes? I don't see any educational advantage at all. The immersion arguement doesn't work at 2nd level as they are all fluent anyway.

She's not being forced to accept anything. If she wants to protest it, next time a teacher calls her name in Irish she can just ignore them.

I personally don't see why it is a massive issue though, as i said teachers will only use names for a brief period in any given day, if they want to call me Homer Simpson go for it, all i really cared about is having my homework done and getting home.

miss no stars

MadsL wrote: »

But why shoud she be forced to accept any other name than the one she has and likes? I don't see any educational advantage at all. The immersion arguement doesn't work at 2nd level as they are all fluent anyway.

If the name they're using is not her own name or a proper, real translation of her name, go down to the school and let them know that you're concerned as it's affecting the documentation of her common usage of her name by changing what her name actually is. Explain that if she were ever to need a visa she'd have awful trouble explaining why a different name is being used, as opposed to translation of her name and you just see that causing all worlds of trouble in the future - explaining a translation of a name to immigration staff is one thing, explaining an entirely different name is another thing. Just tell them that they must either provide an accurate translation, with which you'd have NO problem, or use her legally documented first name. Simples.

Duggys Housemate

Is the problem here that the name is not really translatable? I think the OP is reasonable enough, Proper names are proper names and even if we are ok ( used to) James being translated as Seamus, translating Ewan to Sean, or Eoin is rubbish.

( I also hate the use of Irish names in English - like Eire - where a translation exists).

MadsL

wonderfullife wrote: »

well, as i said, if the name they are calling her is for example her exact name pronounced a bit Irishy, it may just be a case of telling her it's really no big deal. Which it isn't. whereas if the translation is miles off, then it might be a case of having a genuine case to argue.

But why shoud she be forced to accept any other name than the one she has and likes? I don't see any educational advantage at all. The immersion arguement doesn't work at 2nd level as they are all fluent anyway.

wonderfullife

MadsL wrote: »

How will it enhance the debate?

well, as i said, if the name they are calling her is for example her exact name pronounced a bit Irishy, it may just be a case of telling her it's really no big deal. Which it isn't. whereas if the translation is miles off, then it might be a case of having a genuine case to argue.

Paramite Pie

rubadub wrote: »

Is it usual to translate other names into Irish, like in History classes?

Not sure but I wouldn't put it past some people. Then again historical names are often Anglised too but we just don't realise it. So we Anglophones do it too.:P

As mention earlier in the thread should be Yo-suff Stalin not Joseph as we tend to say.

Also St. Patrick would have called himself 'Patricius' since he came from Roman Britain. Hercules was actually Heracles, Nostradamus was really Michel de Nostredame.

I see no problem with historical Irish figures using names as Gaeilge as it is historically accurate, but not for historical figures that were not written about at that time. Modern names should be left as they are.

And I agree with the OP. Sarah is not the same name as Sorcha. One is a bible name and the other is a Gaelic name of unrelated origin. Pushing this on students is wrong.

MadsL

Boo2112 wrote: »

Can you actally answer a single post in a civil manner? Its one thing fighing for something you believe in but I genuinely think you just fight for the sake of it. I won't be giving you any more seemingly much craved attention either. Op you never wanted an answer so why post a question?!

We got 763+ posts out of it, and I got some ideas, some fun and I got to get Username123 to agree to change his username. Well worth it I would say.

Oh..did you think Ah was for serious debate and all?

MadsL

You came back to the thread with this charming accolade

reprazant wrote: »

Since you are coming across as massively condescending in most of your posts, you probably owe everyone an apology tbf.

I'm sorry everyone.

All better now?

Hug?

MadsL

Alaia Whining Army wrote: »

Oh. Never mind. I guess he does just like the drama.

Imagine AH with no drama. Ugh.

Burble Burble
Good point
Burble Burble
Well Said
Burble Burble Burble
Hear Hear

We have the Seanad for that

ZZZZZZZZZZZ

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

And your first post on returning to this thread was a searing attack on my posting style. You got the argument you went looking for.

No, my first post was that the thread as much ado about nothing.

As it went on, and you got more sneering and condescending, I made my point about your posting style.

But then, I guess you are right and I, along with the others who have made the same observations, are all wrong. By all means, continue on.

Boo2112

MadsL wrote: »

Here we go again...

Nope. What bearing does my nationality, marital status, number of kids, height, weight etc or any of the other irrelevant things I have been asked have to do with the topic???

Why do people always want to pigeonhole?

Can you actally answer a single post in a civil manner? Its one thing fighing for something you believe in but I genuinely think you just fight for the sake of it. I won't be giving you any more seemingly much craved attention either. Op you never wanted an answer so why post a question?!