Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

Marcusm wrote: »

This does rather undermine you point; if you wish to retain purity surely she should use the Ashuri script and Hebrew pronunciation; otherwise, if you accept a translation into English for one purpose, surely there is little purpose in fighting a translation into Irish for another. If you see the name as having historic or cultural resonance, remain true to it. An English transaction of it is hardly that.

I like how this collection of letters sounds, so did her mother, and thankfully so did our daughter. We could have called her Sebob (SBUB) would it have been less "true"?

Now someone comes along and tells us were HAVE to pronounce it differently because of where my daughter goes to school because her name is not Irish enough.

DyldeBrill

argirl wrote: »

???

nevermind....

Iwasfrozen

Marcusm wrote: »

I think the difference here however is that the gaelscoil is trying to preserve the Irish language and cultural identity. For the pupils with an Irish heritage, part o f this would be using the names by which they would have been called had there not had been a broad Anglicisation 170 or so years previously (coincident for the most part with the opening of national schools). Applying the same reverse translation to a person of mixed or non Irish heritage would be less obviously appropriate. I find it surprising that the OP's daughter embraces her Irish surname and not her given name. It does, however, lay lie to his indignation in part. She's willing to have one but not the other. Life's about compromise.

This is exactly what I think. And I don't like it one bit.

HondaSami

argirl wrote: »

???

You have six posts and you have not posted in six months and you just happened to log on today to find this thread to support the OP's argument.
You must think we were all born yesterday.

argirl

HondaSami wrote: »

You have six posts and you have not posted in six months and you just happened to log on today to find this thread to support the OP's argument.
You must think we were all born yesterday.

haha seriously? What is your problem? Have I committed a crime by giving my opinion, but not given enough opinions before?!!

P_1

MadsL wrote: »

I like how this collection of letters sounds, so did her mother, and thankfully so did our daughter. We could have called her Sebob (SBUB) would it have been less "true"?

Now someone comes along and tells us were HAVE to pronounce it differently because of where my daughter goes to school because her name is not Irish enough.

Not Irish enough??

I went to a Gaelscoil and some of the 'translations' that other people were stuck with were laughable looking back

MadsL

Marcusm wrote: »

I think the difference here however is that the gaelscoil is trying to preserve the Irish language and cultural identity. For the pupils with an Irish heritage, part o f this would be using the names by which they would have been called had there not had been a broad Anglicisation 170 or so years previously (coincident for the most part with the opening of national schools).

A brave step to predict that. Victoria could have been popular had self-determination been reached much earlier...

Applying the same reverse translation to a person of mixed or non Irish heritage would be less obviously appropriate. I find it surprising that the OP's daughter embraces her Irish surname and not her given name.

The irish version of her First Name is NOT her given name. :mad:

It does, however, lay lie to his indignation in part. She's willing to have one but not the other. Life's about compromise.

And weirdly there is a whiff of having to suffer the name about that bit of your post. How odd. Having to endure a name foisted on you. Like it is cold showers in the morning, or kneeling for prayer.

MadsL

HondaSami wrote: »

You have six posts and you have not posted in six months and you just happened to log on today to find this thread to support the OP's argument.
You must think we were all born yesterday.

I'm completely confused??? What has she done?

Slutmonkey57b

MadsL wrote: »

Does John not get to be called John if that is what is on his birth cert? If John's parents want to call him Eoin, they would have called him Eoin, no???

You're right, the birth cert is an immutable record of fact, and someone's opinion shouldn't override what's in the historical record. It's not like the parents got the "wrong" details at birth.

MadsL

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

You're right, the birth cert is an immutable record of fact, and someone's opinion shouldn't override what's in the historical record. It's not like the parents got the "wrong" details at birth.

Ah. Well played. Well Played.

Slow clap.

Hold on tight folks thread just took an unexpected turn.

Marcusm

MadsL wrote: »

How confusing for the wee kiddy winks to have to deal with being called four names instead of only two.

Oh, except if you are Chinese or something, or Sophie, then you can have one.

You persist in using some very bad examples in support of your claim. Mei-Li whom you've cited in other post is already a phonetic translation rather than a true rendering of the name! The point is about reusing a historic rendering of the identity. Perhaps in your case (?Zara), one is inappropriate but not all letters can be rendered in the Irish alphabet (no j, k, q, v, w, x, y, z). In many cases there would have to bea compromise.

argirl

MadsL wrote: »

I'm completely confused??? What has she done?

Apparently its suspicious to enjoy reading boards more than commenting - its weirdos like him that make people not want to comment on anything, ah well, Ill stick to reading!

MadsL

Marcusm wrote: »

You persist in using some very bad examples in support of your claim. Mei-Li whom you've cited in other post is already a phonetic translation rather than a true rendering of the name! The point is about reusing a historic rendering of the identity. Perhaps in your case (?Zara), one is inappropriate but not all letters can be rendered in the Irish alphabet (no j, k, q, v, w, x, y, z). In many cases there would have to bea compromise.

Tell me, I can cite a few examples of kids that are a bit 'exotic' that do not have to go through the renaming charade.

But address my other reply first.

EDIT: What about if the compromise is just using the original name? Just a wacky thought...

wonderfullife

argirl wrote: »

Apparently its suspicious to enjoy reading boards more than commenting - its weirdos like him that make people not want to comment on anything, ah well, Ill stick to reading!

Yes it could be that....

OR

Perhaps you were site banned under the username Aganica and are completely up to no good with spam, threads about Nigerian lotteries, and basically being a complete "wrong 'un" to borrow an english expression.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80632441


Who knows though....

MadsL

(looks all around him)

Ninjas!! Everywhere!!!

argirl

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yes it could be that....

OR

Perhaps you were site banned under the username Aganica and are completely up to no good with spam, threads about Nigerian lotteries, and basically being a complete "wrong 'un" to borrow an english expression.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80632441


Who knows though....

Perhaps not, I happen to live abroad and enjoy reading about all things happening in Ireland on Boards.ie and have rarely been compelled to comment on anything, I happened to comment today because I experienced something related to the post.

So now I am some other people? have I offended you with my opinions? This is really weird!

wonderfullife

argirl wrote: »

Perhaps not, I happen to live abroad and enjoy reading about all things happening in Ireland on Boards.ie and have rarely been compelled to comment on anything, I happened to comment today because I experienced something related to the post.

So now I am some other people? have I offended you with my opinions? This is really weird!

Life is full of coincidences. What are the odds i wonder of someone being site banned and the same day another person living in the UAE creates an account to post on the same site a total other random person from the UAE was banned from.

Carry on.

argirl

wonderfullife wrote: »

Life is full of coincidences. What are the odds i wonder of someone being site banned and the same day another person living in the UAE creates an account to post on the same site a total other random person from the UAE was banned from.

Carry on.

??? I came here and contributed to the post, I did not abuse anyone or write any spam, so take your conspiracy theory elsewhere. I dont know of the other person you sent the link for but I do live in the UAE, like several Irish people - it does not mean we are the same person.

HondaSami

This thread has turned into one big troll fest, time to close it i think.

wonderfullife

argirl wrote: »

??? I came here and contributed to the post, I did not abuse anyone or write any spam, so take your conspiracy theory elsewhere. I dont know of the other person you sent the link for but I do live in the UAE, like several Irish people - it does not mean we are the same person.

it's not much of a conspiracy theory really is it?

Irish person in UAE site banned; same day a total other random Irish person living in the UAE signs up to Boards.

My powers of deduction say.....

Meh forget it!

Paramite Pie

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Where TF did I have it both ways? I said "we were used to James = Seamas" but as an exception to the rule.

Here;

"I also hate the use of Irish names in English - like Eire - where a translation exists"

You had it both ways since Ireland is a translation of Eire, so you just missed his point! You said Proper nouns/names shouldn't be translated (or something) then commented on people using Eire in English. Eire is not the translated version, Ireland is the translation if you want to get technical.:P

DyldeBrill wrote: »

But if its Hebrew then I doubt there's an Irish version and there certainly shouldn't be one.

Many of our names come from Hebrew because of the bible. Mary/Maire or John/Sean are all translations from Hebrew names in English/Irish respectively. If it's in the Bible then there is an Irish version of it.

MadsL wrote: »

Hold on tight folks thread just took an unexpected turn.

You really need to speak up on your daughter behalf. It's the real 'turn' that this whole thing needs to take.

Marcusm wrote: »

Perhaps in your case (?Zara), one is inappropriate but not all letters can be rendered in the Irish alphabet (no j, k, q, v, w, x, y, z). In many cases there would have to be a compromise.

To be fair, modern Irish speakers can pronounce these letters just fine, unlike speakers in the past who had no English. The trend of adapting names was used because of those sounds were difficult for Irish speakers. Now those trends continue in spite of it.

argirl

wonderfullife wrote: »

it's not much of a conspiracy theory really is it?

Irish person in UAE site banned; same day a total other random Irish person living in the UAE signs up to Boards.

My powers of deduction say.....

Meh forget it!

well sorry to say that you have the wrong person and coincidences happen. So move on please - I have just commented on a post and not insulted anyone.

MadsL

Paramite Pie wrote: »

You really need to speak up on your daughter behalf. It's the real 'turn' that this whole thing needs to take.

I've answered that before. If she asks, and it is distressing her. It isn't at the moment and I'm investigating what records need to be under what name.

Marcusm

LordSutch wrote: »

Don't know if this has been taclked already, but can they Gaelicise any name from any country? Obviously Irish/Englash/Scottish names can all be given the Gaelscoil treatment by adding an O plus a couple of fadas, but what about Polish, Thai & African names? can they also be gaelicised?

They shouldn't really be gaelicising anything but illustrating what the names would have been if they hadn't been anglicised. Clearly, it can't apply to names which weren't translated in the first part. I think it's an important illustration to the students of the changeover in Ireland. However, if, as seems to bethe case here, it causes problems it shouldn't be enforced. However, the register should probably be maintained only with Irish alphabet characters as many other non national names will have been converted from their own scripts/alphabets (Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, various Indian subcontinent, Cyrillic etc).

MadsL

Marcusm wrote: »

They shouldn't really be gaelicising anything but illustrating what the names would have been if they hadn't been anglicised. Clearly, it can't apply to names which weren't translated in the first part. I think it's an important illustration to the students of the changeover in Ireland. However, if, as seems to bethe case here, it causes problems it shouldn't be enforced. However, the register should probably be maintained only with Irish alphabet characters as many other non national names will have been converted from their own scripts/alphabets (Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, various Indian subcontinent, Cyrillic etc).

What register?

Miss Lockhart

MadsL wrote: »

What register?

The rolla/roll book.

MadsL

Marcusm wrote: »

They shouldn't really be gaelicising anything but illustrating what the names would have been if they hadn't been anglicised. Clearly, it can't apply to names which weren't translated in the first part. I think it's an important illustration to the students of the changeover in Ireland. However, if, as seems to bethe case here, it causes problems it shouldn't be enforced. However, the register should probably be maintained only with Irish alphabet characters as many other non national names will have been converted from their own scripts/alphabets (Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, various Indian subcontinent, Cyrillic etc).

I hope the smiley face means that you are joking, because otherwise that is the most rabid 'purist' argument I have ever heard.

miss no stars

Marcusm wrote: »

I find it surprising that the OP's daughter embraces her Irish surname and not her given name.

I think the problem is that while the translation of her surname is correct, the translation of her given name is incorrect and she objects to the incorrect translation and being "corrected" on how her name should be pronounced...

Marcusm

MadsL wrote: »

I hope the smiley face means that you are joking, because otherwise that is the most rabid 'purist' argument I have ever heard.

Reductio ad absurdum might assist in your discussions with the school!

MadsL

Marcusm wrote: »

Reductio ad absurdum might assist in your discussions with the school!

I see.