Justice Minster Alan Shatter opinions on the man

Yitzhak Rabin

HondaSami wrote: »

Yes i remember but it was not enough, i don't expect them to work for nothing but they expect me to work for less and less and you to i assume, we have all had pay cuts.
I think they could cut some of the expenses, coming out telling us to take the pain this time it's the last paycut we will ask from ye, where does it stop?
Cutting sunday pay and allowances for AGS is not fair, it's a hard job with tough unsociable hours.

So is being a binman, or a street-sweeper, but you don't see them getting megabucks.

Gardai are one of the highest paid forces in the EU. Its not possible for us to continue to pay out 12bn more than we take in. Cuts have to come from somewhere.

Where do you suggest? (reducing politicians pay will save us fcuk all btw)

HondaSami

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

So is being a binman, or a street-sweeper, but you don't see them getting megabucks.

Gardai are one of the highest paid forces in the EU. Its not possible for us to continue to pay out 12bn more than we take in. Cuts have to come from somewhere.

Where do you suggest? (reducing politicians pay will save us fcuk all btw)

It will safe fcuk all yes but it would be easier for the rest of us to take the cuts if they took them as well, don't you think?

Yitzhak Rabin

HondaSami wrote: »

It will safe fcuk all yes but it would be easier for the rest of us to take the cuts if they took them as well, don't you think?

You do realise when they apply cuts to the public sector, and introduce taxes they pay them too.

But you didn't answer my question. If you don't want to cut Garda pay, where would you suggest we cut to plug the 12bn gap?

Pappa Charlie

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

You do realise when they apply cuts to the public sector, and introduce taxes they pay them too.

But you didn't answer my question. If you don't want to cut Garda pay, where would you suggest we cut to plug the 12bn gap?

Do you think garda pay amounts to 12bn?

leggo

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

So is being a binman, or a street-sweeper, but you don't see them getting megabucks.

Gardai are one of the highest paid forces in the EU. Its not possible for us to continue to pay out 12bn more than we take in. Cuts have to come from somewhere.

Where do you suggest? (reducing politicians pay will save us fcuk all btw)

Another loaded question that's thrown out by FG sympathisers...it's impossible to make those calls without immediate access to the figures. All people have to judge on is the rationale behind it, and Shatter's apparent intolerance for Gardaí is what has people suspicious of his motives.

But hey, I'll bite: I believe that emergency services and teachers should be protected aspects of the public service, investing in our health, safety and future. Those jobs are vital for the immediate and future maintenance of the state, so I want our best and brightest aspiring to get them by offering fair salaries. I'd re-appropriate - not cut - funds for the HSE in order to make it an effective service.

The Croke Park agreement is a load of bollocks. If I'd have been in charge, one of the first moves I'd have made it to throw that out and make grand scale cuts to the rest of the bloated public sector. The public would be unhappy at first, but come the next GE they'd see the improvements it would make. It's too politically toxic to do so now, though. They've dilly-dallied for the sake of saving face.

Apologies to the army, but they'd be massively cut too. As would students, who've been getting a free ride for far too long. This would come by way of introducing efficiently run, means-tested college fees. I still know people pissing away large grants. That shouldn't happen, simple as.

And so on and so forth, I could go on and obviously you'd need economic stimuli to match the above cuts or you're just adding to the dole queue.

The point is that the above is setting out a vision for Ireland and implementing economic policy that affects that vision, not just bowing to public pressure and hoping the opinion polls don't turn against us in the meantime. Fine Gael have had no such vision and seem to be playing it by ear and hoping for the best. They've gotten lucky in some areas (Anglo) and others are back-firing right now. Ultimately, though, there's no clear vision behind their policy and that's a problem.

Yitzhak Rabin

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Do you think garda pay amounts to 12bn?

No, but I'm saying they shouldn't be exempt from the reductions others in the public sector are facing.

HondaSami

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

You do realise when they apply cuts to the public sector, and introduce taxes they pay them too.

But you didn't answer my question. If you don't want to cut Garda pay, where would you suggest we cut to plug the 12bn gap?

Yes of course i know that.

They cannot keep cutting the same people all the time, we will all end up on social welfare at this rate, we would be as well off on it.
I dunno where they should cut tbh.

Ben Hadad

strongback wrote: »

I don't post here much but would I be right in saying there are a few party political hacks on this board. The guy Sergeant seems to have the sole purposes of countering any post that might be seen as anti Fine Gael.

Seems pointless getting involved if that type of spam is the norm.

I came to that conclusion a long time ago. All politics discussions are packed to the rafters with the like. People are unable to have an open discussion anymore without certain people just defending/attacking who ever group/party is their competitor at that given time. Attempting to buy consensus with their typing speeds and referring to "strawman" arguments. You can spot them a mile away. Kinda sad. The world of politics is just full of dicks I guess. I think I'll leave 'em to it.

Yitzhak Rabin

leggo wrote: »

Another loaded question that's thrown out by FG sympathisers...it's impossible to make those calls without immediate access to the figures. All people have to judge on is the rationale behind it, and Shatter's apparent intolerance for Gardaí is what has people suspicious of his motives.

But hey, I'll bite: I believe that emergency services and teachers should be protected aspects of the public service, investing in our health, safety and future. Those jobs are vital for the immediate and future maintenance of the state, so I want our best and brightest aspiring to get them by offering fair salaries. I'd re-appropriate - not cut - funds for the HSE in order to make it an effective service.

The Croke Park agreement is a load of bollocks. If I'd have been in charge, one of the first moves I'd have made it to throw that out and make grand scale cuts to the rest of the bloated public sector. The public would be unhappy at first, but come the next GE they'd see the improvements it would make. It's too politically toxic to do so now, though. They've dilly-dallied for the sake of saving face.

Apologies to the army, but they'd be massively cut too. As would students, who've been getting a free ride for far too long. This would come by way of introducing efficiently run, means-tested college fees.

And so on and so forth, I could go on and obviously you'd need economic stimuli to match the above cuts or you're just adding to the dole queue.

The point is that the above is setting out a vision for Ireland and implementing economic policy that affects that vision, not just bowing to public pressure and hoping the opinion polls don't turn against us in the meantime. Fine Gael have had no such vision and seem to be playing it by ear and hoping for the best. They've gotten lucky in some areas (Anglo) and others are back-firing right now. Ultimately, though, there's no clear vision behind their policy and that's a problem.

Fair and reasonable answer.

I disagree with some of your points, but I won't engage them, as it'd take this thread in a tangent.

I've no problem with people like you. You have a good grasp of reality and realise that there has to be reform and cuts. You just differ in how you think it should be done.

Its the "NO MORE CUTS... TAX THE RICH...JOBS NOT DEBTS" who are fans of the chancers up in the top seats of the dail that wear wooly jumpers and pink T-shirts into the chamber that I take issue with.

You have no quarrel with this poster.

4zn76tysfajdxp

HondaSami wrote: »

I don't think anyone could question his intelligence, it's his manner that's wrong. He does not come across as a people person.

Bertie was a people person. I wonder if he's busy?

Sergeant

strongback wrote: »

I don't post here much but would I be right in saying there are a few party political hacks on this board. The guy Sergeant seems to have the sole purposes of countering any post that might be seen as anti Fine Gael.

Seems pointless getting involved if that type of spam is the norm.

It isn't spam. I happen to think that the government is doing a reasonable job, and I'm expressing that.

So far on this thread we've had the following:

Shatter's appearance being remarked upon.
His speaking voice.
His personality.
His religion.
That he, as the Minister for Justice, should pay for private security for his home.

And I'm the one that is engaging in strawman arguments?!

It's the same with all this unthinking nonsense that is so prevalent on Irish message boards and blogs. We cannot maintain the pay scales and services we had during the Celtic Tiger. This was funded by extraordinarily cheap credit, selling shítty houses to each other, and a desire for 'Man O' Da Peeple' Ahern to have another term in office.

We now spend €12 billion more than we take in. This is at the core of almost every political decision being made today. And that is why I have more respect for the coalition who are attempting to fix it, than I do for wafflers like Mary Lou McDonald going on about refunding the property tax. Or dirty-looking crusties like Flanagan and Wallace who engage in the type of hypocrisy and sleeveen politics that would have the usual shower around here going apoplectic if someone like Shatter was caught doing it.

12 billion. It's a sizeable chunk of change. And until some of the intellectual heavyweights around here come up with a viable solution on how we get rid of that deficit then I'm going to keep bringing it up.

padd b1975

strongback wrote: »

I don't post here much but would I be right in saying there are a few party political hacks on this board. The guy Sergeant seems to have the sole purposes of countering any post that might be seen as anti Fine Gael.

Seems pointless getting involved if that type of spam is the norm.

Lol.

You could always debate with the guy, put your own point of view across.

Duckjob

Opinions on the man?

Utterly incompetant, with the arrogance to back it up. He was always destined to do well in Irish politics.

biddybops

Duckjob wrote: »

Opinions on the man?

Utterly incompetant, with the arrogance to back it up. He was always destined to do well in Irish politics.

Never usually comment on individual people on boards as I think it is in bad taste and usually it's the system not the individual that should be debated.
However, had the misfortune to attend mr shatter for legal advice and every time I see or hear that man,the bile rises in the back of my throat, even 25 years later.
Shatter and justice in the same sentence is an oxymoron. IMO.
He should bring a bit of control over the legal profession and leave the guards alone.
Or else go back to writing fiction!

Phoebas

HondaSami wrote: »

It will safe fcuk all yes but it would be easier for the rest of us to take the cuts if they took them as well, don't you think?

Aren't politicians covered by CPA2 and subject to the same cuts as the civil servants their pay is linked to?

John Mongo

leggo wrote: »

Another loaded question that's thrown out by FG sympathisers...it's impossible to make those calls without immediate access to the figures. All people have to judge on is the rationale behind it, and Shatter's apparent intolerance for Gardaí is what has people suspicious of his motives.

But hey, I'll bite: I believe that emergency services and teachers should be protected aspects of the public service, investing in our health, safety and future. Those jobs are vital for the immediate and future maintenance of the state, so I want our best and brightest aspiring to get them by offering fair salaries. I'd re-appropriate - not cut - funds for the HSE in order to make it an effective service.

The Croke Park agreement is a load of bollocks. If I'd have been in charge, one of the first moves I'd have made it to throw that out and make grand scale cuts to the rest of the bloated public sector. The public would be unhappy at first, but come the next GE they'd see the improvements it would make. It's too politically toxic to do so now, though. They've dilly-dallied for the sake of saving face.

Apologies to the army, but they'd be massively cut too. As would students, who've been getting a free ride for far too long. This would come by way of introducing efficiently run, means-tested college fees. I still know people pissing away large grants. That shouldn't happen, simple as.

And so on and so forth, I could go on and obviously you'd need economic stimuli to match the above cuts or you're just adding to the dole queue.

The point is that the above is setting out a vision for Ireland and implementing economic policy that affects that vision, not just bowing to public pressure and hoping the opinion polls don't turn against us in the meantime. Fine Gael have had no such vision and seem to be playing it by ear and hoping for the best. They've gotten lucky in some areas (Anglo) and others are back-firing right now. Ultimately, though, there's no clear vision behind their policy and that's a problem.

Massively cut from where in the DF exactly?

The Defence Budget for this year is 656 million, with another 35 million to be taken from the Defence Budget this year once CPA2 comes into play, so we'll call it 631 million, which has to cover everything from Defence procurement to soldiers pay.

In the past few years, on top of Budget reductions and obvious paycuts to serving soldiers, the organisation has reduced it's strength, closed a number of barracks, disbanded a number of Units, redeployed troops across the country to bring Units upto strength, implemented a complete re-org of the Defence Forces which included losing a full Brigade from the organisation. All of this came even after, while most of the Public Sector lost the run of itself during the boom years, the Defence Forces was continuing to cut numbers and encourage reform.

The DF met every target set for them, made the tough decisions and got on with it. Lads have literally been moved halfway across the country in a lot of cases, yet they got on with the job. The only upside seems to be that the Government has finally realised that there's not much more that the DF can give.

The idea that the DF should be "cut massively", while more money should be re-appropriated for the monster of inefficiency that is the HSE, is laughable.

keith16

For me, it boils down to this. The man has full time Garda presence outside his home, but has no hesitation cutting those same resources from those who need it.

Disgusting hypocrisy, do as I say, not as I do. The man is completely out of touch.

Royal Legend

GarIT wrote: »

He promised me last year he would be looking into the good Friday licencing laws last year, this year he refuses to answer simple questions on it. Not going near him or the party again.

He is probably trying to keep the Missus off the booze for at least one day a year :rolleyes:

Sergeant

Royal Legend wrote: »

He is probably trying to keep the Missus off the booze for at least one day a year :rolleyes:

Disgusting comment.

Siuin

Pity the OP had to bring up the fact that he's Jewish when the real issue is that he's a smarmy little shít. And I say that as a proud Jew and daughter of a member of the gardaí

WayneMolloy

Siuin wrote: »

Pity the OP had to bring up the fact that he's Jewish when the real issue is that he's a smarmy little shít. And I say that as a proud Jew and daughter of a member of the gardaí

The Jewish chronicle article linked in the opening piece referred to Mr. Shatter as "our man in the Dail". That struck me as a tad odd.

Also, as Minister for Defence, his pro Israeli stance should be kept to himself. He wants to send Irish troops to dangerous hot spots like Syria. His comments could cause the hardliners to target Irish troops.

mikom

Sergeant wrote: »

It isn't spam. I happen to think that the government is doing a reasonable job, and I'm expressing that.

So far on this thread we've had the following:

Shatter's appearance being remarked upon.
His speaking voice.

Can you smell the hypocrisy......


From the "Has Luke Flanagan's Dail Speech ensured his re-election" thread.

Sergeant wrote: »

If anything good has came out of this sordid affair it's that we won't be hearing much of his shrill and antagonising voice.

You said it, bub....

Sergeant wrote: »

Or dirty-looking crusties like Flanagan and Wallace who engage in the type of hypocrisy.

hawkelady

Sergeant wrote: »

It isn't spam. I happen to think that the government is doing a reasonable job, and I'm expressing that.

So far on this thread we've had the following:

Shatter's appearance being remarked upon.
His speaking voice.
His personality.
His religion.
That he, as the Minister for Justice, should pay for private security for his home.

And I'm the one that is engaging in strawman arguments?!

It's the same with all this unthinking nonsense that is so prevalent on Irish message boards and blogs. We cannot maintain the pay scales and services we had during the Celtic Tiger. This was funded by extraordinarily cheap credit, selling shítty houses to each other, and a desire for 'Man O' Da Peeple' Ahern to have another term in office.

We now spend €12 billion more than we take in. This is at the core of almost every political decision being made today. And that is why I have more respect for the coalition who are attempting to fix it, than I do for wafflers like Mary Lou McDonald going on about refunding the property tax. Or dirty-looking crusties like Flanagan and Wallace who engage in the type of hypocrisy and sleeveen politics that would have the usual shower around here going apoplectic if someone like Shatter was caught doing it.

12 billion. It's a sizeable chunk of change. And until some of the intellectual heavyweights around here come up with a viable solution on how we get rid of that deficit then I'm going to keep bringing it up.

Have you had any actual dealings with shatter ?? You talking as if your in government the way you go on.

The views expressed here about Mr shatter that he is obnoxious/ arrogant and he only thinks about himself are fairly on the money.
I won't go into it too much but please tell me if you have had conversations with him or are you just spouting stuff because you are a FG fan boy.

Chuck Stone

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The Jewish chronicle article linked in the opening piece referred to Mr. Shatter as "our man in the Dail". That struck me as a tad odd.

Also, as Minister for Defence, his pro Israeli stance should be kept to himself. He wants to send Irish troops to dangerous hot spots like Syria. His comments could cause the hardliners to target Irish troops.

It would have been better parked if we wanted to discuss his competency because it only draws the 'Jews killed the dinosaurs' crowd like moths to a bright light.

flutered

Sergeant wrote: »

So he had the utter temerity to be successful in his profession. Why bring that into it?[/QUOTE

i did not say that he was sucessful, i said that he was the most expensive, which often used as a way to be selective when chooseing clients.

WayneMolloy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I would have been better parked if we wanted to discuss his competency because it only draws the 'Jews killed the dinosaurs' crowd like moths to a bright light.

Fair enough. I thought it was worth a mention. I dont think a Defence minister of a neutral country should be openly supportive of any group or nation currently involved in conflict. Especially when that minister wants to send peacekeeping troops into the region. Its risky enough as is.

John Mongo

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Fair enough. I thought it was worth a mention. I dont think a Defence minister of a neutral country should be openly supportive of any group or nation currently involved in conflict. Especially when that minister wants to send peacekeeping troops into the region. Its risky enough as is.

We're not neutral though. We've already picked sides in A'Stan as it is, so if extremists really wanted to, they'd already have their excuse for kicking off with us.

flutered

Phoebas wrote: »

Aren't politicians covered by CPA2 and subject to the same cuts as the civil servants their pay is linked to?

when our politicans are the best paid in the world, for making little or no changes amounst their own, when county managers are paid more than all leaders across europe, bar our own, when sarkozi collects 72,000 per year pension, then our clown collects 153,000, then the sewer rat who came ban before him collects more than that, plus expenses, plus armed garda to look after his safety, plus, feck i give up.

tayto lover

John Mongo wrote: »

We're not neutral though. We've already picked sides in A'Stan as it is, so if extremists really wanted to, they'd already have their excuse for kicking off with us.

I wonder how he felt about the U.S. using Shannon for taking through their rendition hostages?
Could anyone see Shatter as Minister for Justice taking the U.S. to task?

Chuck Stone

tayto lover wrote: »

Could anyone see any Minister for Justice taking the U.S. to task?

FYP.