Justice Minster Alan Shatter opinions on the man

mikemac1

What do you do if your post doesn't get any attention?

You post it again hoping someone will notice and give you a few thanks

43 & 51

Ranicand

HondaSami wrote: »

I know but he still has gardai 24/7 at his house, is this necessary and if it is should he not pay a private security firm to do it?
He is cutting the pay of the people who have to sit in his garden all day ffs

And they can't even go into his house for a crap.

Sergeant

HondaSami wrote: »

I know but he still has gardai 24/7 at his house, is this necessary and if it is should he not pay a private security firm to do it?
He is cutting the pay of the people who have to sit in his garden all day ffs

You do know why he has Gardaí sitting in a car outside his house?

It's unfortunate that he has to cut their pay, but we need to cut that 12 billion euro deficit. It's a lot of money. You'd think politicians are making all these cuts for a laugh.

Nodin

mikemac1 wrote: »

What do you do if your post doesn't get any attention?

You post it again hoping someone will notice and give you a few thanks

43 & 51

O I wasn't looking for thanks, I was just highlighting the fact that the OP is an anti-semite and his comments should be viewed in that light.

HondaSami

Sergeant wrote: »

You do know why he has Gardaí sitting in a car outside his house?

It's unfortunate that he has to cut their pay, but we need to cut that 12 billion euro deficit. It's a lot of money. You'd think politicians are making all these cuts for a laugh.

I do know but is it really necessary and should he not pay for it himself?
Honestly the politicians are still living in a different world to the rest of us, they have no idea imo.

Augmerson

Sergeant wrote: »

You do know why he has Gardaí sitting in a car outside his house?

It's unfortunate that he has to cut their pay, but we need to cut that 12 billion euro deficit. It's a lot of money. You'd think politicians are making all these cuts for a laugh.

We know. Poor chaps. Thankfully they are there to do that, to make that ultimate sacrifice for us, and pick and choose who gets a bigger slice of the **** sandwich.

Sergeant

HondaSami wrote: »

I do know but is it really necessary and should he not pay for it himself?
Honestly the politicians are still living in a different world to the rest of us, they have no idea imo.

Why should a politician have to pay for private security for him/her self? Why would anyone go into politics if it ended up costing them money? The vast majority of the Dáil don't have access to a private army.

HondaSami

Sergeant wrote: »

Why should a politician have to pay for private security for him/her self? Why would anyone go into politics if it ended up costing them money? The vast majority of the Dáil don't have access to a private army.

That's fair enough but we should all make sacrifices politicians as well imo
Politicians are there to serve the public not to make money or so i thought. Does it have to be gardai that protect his house?

Spanish Harlem

I called it in post #2...I knew we couldn't have a thread about Minister Shatter without it descending into Jewish conspiracy nonsense and Israel bashing.

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't really have a strong opinion on the man, but as Defense Minister I think he should try to keep his pro-Israel bias to himself. Especially as Irish people are serving abroad in pertinently volatile areas.. his aired views could possibly make targets of Irish troops.

I'd have the same opinion if it was a Minister speaking vehemently against Israel btw.

So do you think Gerry Adams (Provisional IRA) and Eamonn Gilmore (Official IRA) should shut up crying about Palestine? Maybe they should keep their views to themselves too since Palestine extends beyond their job description as national legislators for Ireland.

Yamanoto

razorgil wrote: »

probably the most arrogant td i have ever seen enter dail eireann

Nah, that'd be Padraig Flynn

hyperborean

Spanish Harlem wrote: »

I called it in post #2...I knew we couldn't have a thread about Minister Shatter without it descending into Jewish conspiracy nonsense and Israel bashing.



So do you think Gerry Adams (Provisional IRA) and Eamonn Gilmore (Official IRA) should shut up crying about Palestine? Maybe they should keep their views to themselves too since Palestine extends beyond their job description as national legislators for Ireland.

You started it, not called it.

My name is URL

Spanish Harlem wrote: »

I called it in post #2...I knew we couldn't have a thread about Minister Shatter without it descending into Jewish conspiracy nonsense and Israel bashing.

I don't think I'm guilty of either of those things, but if playing the victim does it for you then carry on regardless.

Spanish Harlem

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't think I'm guilty of either of those things, but if playing the victim does it for you then carry on regardless.

I was referring to other posters with the first part of my post.
The second part was addressed to you.

entropi

HondaSami wrote: »

Don't worry about it OP he will soon be shifted/transferred to some other department.

Wouldn't even employ him to fetch tea tbh.

Chuck Stone

Spanish Harlem wrote: »

So do you think Gerry Adams (Provisional IRA)

Conspiracy theory forum >>>>>>





See what I did there?

omahaid

I think Shatter is going a fair job considering how unpopular it is. John O Donoghue never recieved as much vitriol as Shatter and Shatter seems to be reasonably honest in comparison.

strongback

Shatter is bad.......very bad.........but he is nowhere near as cynical as Gilmore or Rabbitte.

I do wonder sometimes if this government can relate to the people. It might have something to do with their getting into power by default.

Sergeant

strongback wrote: »

Shatter is bad.......very bad.........but he is nowhere near as cynical as Gilmore or Rabbitte.

I do wonder sometimes if this government can relate to the people. It might have something to do with their getting into power by default.

Of course they can relate to the people. They don't raise taxes and cut services for the sake of it. It's the old 12 billion deficit thing.

Any suggestions as to an alternative?

omahaid

HondaSami wrote: »

I do know but is it really necessary and should he not pay for it himself?
Honestly the politicians are still living in a different world to the rest of us, they have no idea imo.

We pay to protect the minister for justice not Alan Shatter. And it's not a cost I begrudge.

My name is URL

Spanish Harlem wrote: »

I was referring to other posters with the first part of my post.
The second part was addressed to you.

Fair enough so... and yes, I do think that ministers in general should be careful about what they comment on regarding foreign policy etc. Specifically though, there a few ministerial roles in which those fulfilling them should be downright stoic in what they say, Foreign Affairs, Defense etc...

We may not be a genuinely neutral country in a militaristic sense, but I don't think it's too much to ask of our more internationally listened to Ministers, to avoid displaying an obvious bias and coming down publicly on any one side. Particularly when they are also responsible for deployment of troops in areas where bias and partiality tend to play a big part.

KingOfFairview

I don't think he is doing a very good job.

However... it's worth remembering that when the exchequer was pissing money and we had someone who fancied himself as a Charles Bronson-type hardman (McDowell), the crime rate was significantly higher than it is now, mainly because people had a lot more money to buy cocaine. Shatter isn't up to much, but the real problem is the legal profession.

HondaSami

omahaid wrote: »

We pay to protect the minister for justice not Alan Shatter. And it's not a cost I begrudge.

I do begrudge it when politicians are telling the rest of us to take the pain while they are not taking enough imo

This little joke from Pat Rabbit was not near as funny as he seemed to think it was.

At a book launch the night the pay deal extension was announced, he told the audience:
"Another busy day diminishing the living standards of our people."

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pat%20rabbitte%20croke%20park%202&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CE4QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Farchives%2F2013%2F0305%2Fworld%2Frabbitte-refuses-to-apologise-for-croke-park-deal-joke-224509.html&ei=UBNWUa2fIc-XhQf5poDABg&usg=AFQjCNGTChGL5c0G4zGADWes01id3YDg4w

strongback

Sergeant wrote: »

Of course they can relate to the people. They don't raise taxes and cut services for the sake of it. It's the old 12 billion deficit thing.

Any suggestions as to an alternative?

Not paying out on private bank would have been a start. What did your man Leo promise on that.

Tackling youth unemployment would correct a lot of the problems. Providing leadership on the negative equity issue and hefty mortgage payments of those who bought in the bubble wouldn't be bad either.

The country is crippled with personal debt and unemployment. If Enda and co continue on the same path Fianna Fail will in turn win the next election by default.

Sergeant

strongback wrote: »

Not paying out on private bank would have been a start. What did your man Leo promise on that.

Tackling youth unemployment would correct a lot of the problems. Providing leadership on the negative equity issue and hefty mortgage payments of those who bought in the bubble wouldn't be bad either.

The country is crippled with personal debt and unemployment. If Enda and co continue on the same path Fianna Fail will in turn win the next election by default.

Where's the money going to come from to implement such measures?

strongback

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I don't think he is doing a very good job.

However... it's worth remembering that when the exchequer was pissing money and we had someone who fancied himself as a Charles Bronson-type hardman (McDowell), the crime rate was significantly higher than it is now, mainly because people had a lot more money to buy cocaine. Shatter isn't up to much, but the real problem is the legal profession.

You have it right there. I was burgled and the burglars were caught. The Garda at the time told me it could take up to two years before I may be asked to give evidence in court. He said the solicitor for the burglars would keep getting the case put back until they were forced to deal with it.

The Garda said the solicitor is on a fee for every time he has to appear in court so has no interest in getting the case resolved quickly. The Garda said it was one of the most frustrating parts of the job for him.

I asked why this doesn't this get reformed and he pointed to the minister for justice at the time, Dermot Ahearn, and said solicitors don't make laws that put other solicitors out of work. Don't expect Shatter to put an end to criminals walking around the streets for 2 years while they are waiting to be tried and sentenced.

razorgil

Sergeant wrote: »

Where's the money going to come from to implement such measures?

shatter's in laws

KingOfFairview

strongback wrote: »

You have it right there. I was burgled and the burglars were caught. The Garda at the time told me it could take up to two years before I may be asked to give evidence in court. He said the solicitor for the burglars would keep getting the case put back until they were forced to deal with it.

The Garda said the solicitor is on a fee for every time he has to appear in court so has no interest in getting the case resolved quickly. The Garda said it was one of the most frustrating parts of the job for him.

I asked why this doesn't this get reformed and he pointed to the minister for justice at the time, Dermot Ahearn, and said solicitors don't make laws that put other solicitors out of work. Don't expect Shatter to put an end to criminals walking around the streets for 2 years while they are waiting to be tried and sentenced.

Bingo. Look how many repeat offenders there are. Do some simple economics. Less repeat offenders, less work for the legal profession. It's not in their interest to have an efficient justice system.

But they aren't an impossible obstacle.

leggo

I have problems with cutting emergency services or teachers (not all of the public sector), but that's not all Shatter's doing. As people have pointed out, he's handed down orders to cut X amount. And, while I believe he may not appreciate the efforts of each individual Garda under his watch, I don't believe his cuts are malicious in their intent.

What I DO have a problem with is his arrogance. He always comes across as intolerant of those who disagree with his opinion, then is quick to jump to the moral high ground (as he did following the walkout this week...babbling about how he's all for polite, engaging discussion, i.e. discussion that doesn't question his opinion in any kind of meaningful, effective way).

From what I understand of the man, he's the type who sits for hours by himself drafting important legislation to an almost obsessive degree. This would suggest that he sees himself as above taking advice or getting the public consensus...as if he's the only one intelligent enough to know what's best for everyone else. Given his background of extreme wealth, this is unsurprising (I'm not one to begrudge the wealthy, but there's no denying that an enhanced social status can breed that ideology into people). All I hear of him, and any subsequent interview I've heard supports these notions, suggests a vast superiority complex to the point where he feels he's beyond public recourse or polite, engaging discussion. Because what would the, oh I dunno, people who voted to put him in that position know after all?

In conclusion, he's not suited to public life. He doesn't need it and it appears that only his own arrogance - that he knows what's best for us - is keeping him there. He and his family have made millions in the private sector. Perhaps deservedly so. But perhaps he would be best suited to that sector where that arrogance can help people succeed, and not in public life which seems to be a bit of a nuisance for him...having to deal with that pesky public and everything.

strongback

Sergeant wrote: »

Where's the money going to come from to implement such measures?

Well the banks have already received substantial bailout to deal with bad debt and mortgage difficulties. The value of every mortgaged property in the country has long been established and the banks have received money to offset the problems. The government have let the banks sit on this despite people seriously suffering.

The government need to go on a youth employment drive and invest serious resources in it. It is very short sighted to think the country will not suffer the ill effects of emigration, never mind the inevitable youth crime that we saw demonstrated in the London Riots the roots of which have been established as youth unemployment.

The other issue with youth unemployment is that we pay for young people to sit around instead of harnessing their energy.

We also did not receive one cent of discount on the promissory notes which at one stage we wouldn't be paying out on if you listened to Leo.


To be honest I see your excuses as being defeatist, as if we are not capable of defining our own destiny.

The biggest problem though is this is a country of me feiner's. If we thought and worked collectively we would do a lot better. The likes of Noonan pushing out the promissory notes allows older people to avoid the brunt of the repayments. Older people vote more. It's all pretty cynical but if the youth are ignored there will be massive repercussions.

Yitzhak Rabin

leggo wrote: »

I have problems with cutting emergency services or teachers (not all of the public sector), but that's not all Shatter's doing. As people have pointed out, he's handed down orders to cut X amount. And, while I believe he may not appreciate the efforts of each individual Garda under his watch, I don't believe his cuts are malicious in their intent.

What I DO have a problem with is his arrogance. He always comes across as intolerant of those who disagree with his opinion, then is quick to jump to the moral high ground (as he did following the walkout this week...babbling about how he's all for polite, engaging discussion, i.e. discussion that doesn't question his opinion in any kind of meaningful, effective way).

From what I understand of the man, he's the type who sits for hours by himself drafting important legislation to an almost obsessive degree. This would suggest that he sees himself as above taking advice or getting the public consensus...as if he's the only one intelligent enough to know what's best for everyone else. Given his background of extreme wealth, this is unsurprising (I'm not one to begrudge the wealthy, but there's no denying that an enhanced social status can breed that ideology into people). All I hear of him, and any subsequent interview I've heard supports these notions, suggests a vast superiority complex to the point where he feels he's beyond public recourse or polite, engaging discussion. Because what would the, oh I dunno, people who voted to put him in that position know after all?

In conclusion, he's not suited to public life. He doesn't need it and it appears that only his own arrogance - that he knows what's best for us - is keeping him there. He and his family have made millions in the private sector. Perhaps deservedly so. But perhaps he would be best suited to that sector where that arrogance can help people succeed, and not in public life which seems to be a bit of a nuisance for him...having to deal with that pesky public and everything.

It sounds as if you're saying you'd prefer an everyman in the dail. The type of person who everyone can relate to and can see themselves having the craic down in the pub with.

We already tried that with Bertie and Cowen. Don't think anyone would deny they're great men to tell a yarn and have an aul sing-song in the Galway Races Tent. Didn't work out too well though.

How about we try politicians who are intelligent and competent, even if they come across as arrogant and aloof to people less intelligent than them?