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Would you wear clothing with the British flag on it?

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    #212
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    gurramok wrote: »
    So you have not watched and read the news recently with serious Loyalist riots over the removal of their flag? Rioters embrazoned with the flag over their bodies.

    On this island, wearing that flag is associated with loyalism. In Britain its not really as its their flag and don't give a sh1t about NI.

    More so that part of the island. You'll find more and more people down here are becoming more ignorant to matters in the North. Also should a tourist wearing clothing with a UK flag be expected to be up to date with matters in the North? Again it depends on the persons motive if they even have one in wearing it.


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    #213
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Oh it really really is your interpretation. Yes I do have a clue about N.I. A person is only "pro British" or a loyalist or whatever if they identify themselves as such, not because you decide they are, due to them wearing something with a symbol which they like the look of. I despise fanatical loyalism, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't wear an item of clothing with a small union jack on it if I like the item of clothing... yet according to you, that would make me identifiable as a loyalist (and by that, I'm assuming you mean a target). Fascinating "logic".

    Yes it would identify you as a Loyalist as you went out of your way to wear it. You did not choose to wear the Chinese, American, German flag etc.

    Out of all the handbags on display, you choose one associated with Loyalism and yet have the audacity to complain about the complainers :rolleyes:


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    #214
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    There are very few. I can really only think of one poster on Boards who thinks like that. However the self-hater thing still sometimes unfairly gets applied to people who might be supportive of Britain on some matters or criticize aspects of Irish culture. Not necessarily by you or Chuck Stone but it does happen.


    There are a few. I can can think of three off-hand. However it is true that the label is over-applied. To clarify, I'm not a gaelgoir, or a big GAA fan.


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    #215
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Its the attitude that you have to meet certain parameters to be "Irish" (ie support the GAA or Irish music) and that if you dont you hate yourself and hate Ireland.

    Funny that because I'm not the biggest fan of Gaelic sports myself - I have great respect for it but I prefer rugby and I don't have a word of Irish. Also, you probably wouldn't recognise me as being particularly Irish so I could well fall outside your parameters.

    What I was alluding to was those people who despise these things because they're easily pointed out as being overtly Irish. I don't have a rigid concept of what it is to be Irish but I can tell a hater of Irishness when I encounter one.


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    #216
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    gallag wrote: »
    Why are some irish so insecure? There are so many threads like this it a bit sad really.

    It hasn't stopped you from commenting in every single one.

    With all the recent flag protests, I seriously doubt that Unionists and Loyalists could claim to be beyond the perils of insecurity.


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    #217
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    gurramok wrote: »
    If you wear clothing with a Union Jack on it as part of your everyday attire (rather than wearing it for a day or so because of sport) in Ireland, you're British, you're wearing a Nationalist symbol of the UK, simple as that. Also just beware you can be identified as a Loyalist by wearing one.

    That's ^ such a narrow minded & crazy theory . . . .

    Doc Martin boots have a little British flag (on the label), as do Reebok trainers, Karrimor, Burberry jackets, so do some Clarks shoes, plus some womens bags (the wife has one), so I guess there are many items of clothing & foodstuffs with little British, American, German or Italian flags on them, and so bloody what . . . . . .

    Re the Union Flag in isolation; To many people around the world "that flag" in particular has become more like a design icon than just a National flag. Look at all the Rock & Pop T-shirts available from the likes of The Who, The Stones, Bowie, The Jam, The Beatles, and Oasis, all with British flags in the design.

    http://www.karrimor.com/skin/frontend/default/karrimor/images/karrimor-logo.png
    http://storage.content-delivery-network.com/9/ecc9344f.jpg
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/David-Bowie-Union-Jack-T-shirt-in-Mens-Ladies-Fit-Brand-New-All-sizes-/00/s/MTYwMFgxNTY5/z/NX8AAMXQZdFRG994/$(KGrHqV,!q8FDvSgKnk1BRG994CPFg~~60_35.JPG

    Are we now saying that Irish people shouldn't wear any of them because the British flag is present?


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    #218
    Tayla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    No I wouldn't and it was everywhere for the last couple of years with the Olympics and the feckin' Jubilee.

    I actually complained in my local Next shop about it one day because they were just after getting in their new stock for kids and I had previously seen all the new stuff on the website so I was going in to pick up a few kids tshirts but yet out of all the ranges they could have chosen to bring into the store they chose the range that was plastered in Union jacks and brought none of the other ranges in.


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    #219
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Funny that because I'm not the biggest fan of Gaelic sports myself - I have great respect for it but I prefer rugby and I don't have a word of Irish. Also, you probably wouldn't recognise me as being particularly Irish so I could well fall outside your parameters.

    What I was alluding to was those people who despise these things because they're easily pointed out as being overtly Irish. I don't have a rigid concept of what it is to be Irish but I can tell a hater of Irishness when I encounter one.

    If someone came out and said i hate Ireland and everything about than fair enough.

    Its when people say they dont like certain aspects of Irishness and get automatically tarnished as a self-hater or West Brit when thats not the case is what i would have issue with and ive seen it plenty of times on Boards. Not necessarily by you but other posters.


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    #220
    DylanII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭DylanII


    I would wear it.

    Im a very Irish person. I just couldn't give a f about where northern Ireland ends up. I have no love or hate for the british. The flag means nothing to me. As far as I can see its just part of modern fashion.

    I personally think the british flag looks pretty cool - it certainly looks better than the Irish flag.

    Im surprised that this got a thread of its own - never mind 15 pages of it. I really didn't think Irish people would have an issue with this. I would say the only people who have an issue would be the really old (which I understand) and the typical little scumbag type person.


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    #221
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    gurramok wrote: »
    Yes it would identify you as a Loyalist as you went out of your way to wear it. You did not choose to wear the Chinese, American, German flag etc.
    Why are you writing about it in the past tense as if it happened?
    Out of all the handbags on display, you choose one associated with Loyalism and yet have the audacity to complain about the complainers :rolleyes:
    Where did I mention handbags? If you want to identify people who wear an item of clothing they like but which happens to have a small, inconspicuous union jack on it (like with mod culture) as loyalists (and legitimate targets for hostility) fine... keep thinking loon thoughts.
    What about a person wearing an item of clothing with the star-spangled banner on it or the Japanese flag? It has to mean something political right? It can't just be liking the look of the item of clothing that happens to have such a symbol on it.


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    #222
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    LordSutch wrote: »
    That's ^ such a narrow minded & crazy theory . . .

    Are we now saying that Irish people shouldn't wear any of them because the British flag is present?

    Not crazy or narrow minded our Unionist friend :). We have a frozen(mostly) conflict here in Ireland and the Union flag is associated with Loyalism. We have have seen their supporters in action bringing NI to a standstill recently.

    Now, why would one CHOOSE to wear a Union Jack on their clothing above every other flag including the Irish flag?

    Its fine to wear it in GB but this ain't GB, its Ireland.


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    #223
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    gurramok wrote: »
    Not crazy or narrow minded our Unionist friend :). We have a frozen(mostly) conflict here in Ireland and the Union flag is associated with Loyalism. We have have seen their supporters in action bringing NI to a standstill recently.

    Now, why would one CHOOSE to wear a Union Jack on their clothing above every other flag including the Irish flag?

    Its fine to wear it in GB but this ain't GB, its Ireland.

    Let me refer you back to post#218 my Republican friend :))


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    #224
    problemchimp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭problemchimp


    Butchers Apron in my opinion, but if you want to wear it, go ahead.


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    #225
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    gurramok wrote: »
    On this island, wearing that flag is associated with loyalism.

    A part of this island, specifically the Nordy bit.

    Down Mexico way, for most folks it's just another bit of coloured cloth, flapping in the wind.


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    #226
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    gurramok wrote: »
    Yes it would identify you as a Loyalist as you went out of your way to wear it. You did not choose to wear the Chinese, American, German flag etc.

    I've read Madam_X's posts in the past and I can assure you that she's not a fundamentalist Loyalist, whether you're just joking or not.

    Regarding the topic itself, I would never be particularly concerned about a person who actually does wear the Union Jack to make some kind of obscure Political statement. You see, People who wear symbols for such a reason often are simply compensating for the fact that they are incapable of conveying their beliefs verbally, and so have to get their point across in the least subtle way possible.

    For everyone else, continue doing what the hell you want.


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    #227
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Why are you writing about it in the past tense as if it happened?

    Where did I mention handbags? If you want to identify people who wear an item of clothing they like but which happens to have a small, inconspicuous union jack on it (like with mod culture) as loyalists (and legitimate targets for hostility) fine... keep thinking loon thoughts.
    What about a person wearing an item of clothing with the star-spangled banner on it or the Japanese flag? It has to mean something political right? It can't just be liking the look of the item of clothing that happens to have such a symbol on it.

    You seriously had to state the above?! Handbag was an example btw, the star-spangled banner on it or the Japanese flag is not associated with Loyalism. If one chooses to wear the Union flag on their clothing, they are British just like our Loyalist Brethern.
    LordSutch wrote: »
    Let me refer you back to post#218 my Republican friend :))

    Whois Republican? I'm an Irish Nationalist.


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    #228
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    "If they choose to wear something with the union jack on it, they are British" - passport, place of birth, citizenship, those kind of things go out the window according to you (and just you I'd say). Ok. Continuing with that line of "logic", wearing an item of clothing with a star-spangled banner would therefore make the person automatically American, hence why I brought it up.


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    #229
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    gurramok wrote: »
    If one chooses to wear the Union flag on their clothing, they are British just like our Loyalist Brethern.

    So is there nothing in post#218 that will alter your view?


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    #230
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Madam_X wrote: »
    "If they choose to wear something with the union jack on it, they are British" - passport, place of birth, citizenship, those kind of things go out the window according to you (and just you I'd say). Ok. Continuing with that line of "logic", wearing an item of clothing with a star-spangled banner would therefore make the person automatically American, hence why I brought it up.

    Are you seriously saying your Irish?! Where have you been?

    We have an ongoing conflict with those who identify as British here, not American. Whether you like it or not, we share a disputed border with NI, there will always be identity issues with regards whether one identifies as British or Irish.

    The border is only 60 miles away from Dublin, perhaps you should wander over that way to help you understand.


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    #231
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    LordSutch wrote: »
    That's ^ such a narrow minded & crazy theory . . . .

    Are we now saying that Irish people shouldn't wear any of them because the British flag is present?

    LordSutch, I'm certainly not having a dig at you here, and I could be wrong here, but I've read enough of your posts to know that you think a little more of the Union Jack than simply as a fashion symbol.

    It would be like two salesman lined side by side on the corner of a busy Street, both selling the same shirt with an Irish tricolour print on it. One of the salesman is a just a normal guy hoping to get a few sheckles during the St. Patrick's Day Parade, and the other is a dyed in the wool, full-blooded Republican.

    They might both be selling the same shirt, but they're selling it for very different reasons.


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    #232
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    LordSutch wrote: »
    So is there nothing in post#218 that will alter your view?

    Are you talking about GB artists or Ireland based ones? Its expected of GB artists as the Union flag is theirs. The Who, The Stones, Bowie, The Jam, The Beatles, and Oasis are all British.


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    #233
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Born and raised in Ireland, sympathetic to nationalists in Northern Ireland. I didn't just wear an item of clothing with the Irish flag on it, which, according to your logic, if I were not an Irish citizen, would be enough to make me Irish and republican if I wore it long enough.

    I don't think I've ever worn an item of clothing with the union jack on it, but if I did, it would mean **** all to do with politics - no matter what you want to think.
    You can have your warped opinion but please stop saying it's a fact. It is a (weird, fanatical) point of view, which by definition is not a fact.


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    #234
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    LordSutch, I'm certainly not having a dig at you here, and I could be wrong here, but I've read enough of your posts to know that you think a little more of the Union Jack than simply as a fashion symbol.

    I make a serious point in post#218.

    Seriously, it has become more than just a flag to many people across the globe.


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    #235
    DylanII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭DylanII


    gurramok wrote: »
    Are you seriously saying your Irish?! Where have you been?

    We have an ongoing conflict with those who identify as British here, not American. Whether you like it or not, we share a disputed border with NI, there will always be identity issues with regards whether one identifies as British or Irish.

    The border is only 60 miles away from Dublin, perhaps you should wander over that way to help you understand.

    I didn't realise that we had an issue with anyone who is british in Ireland. I was also unaware that Northern Ireland was still disputed apart from a few IRA wannabes - Id say less than 1% of the population actually care.

    The English are not saying that the North is theirs. The people who live in Northern Ireland have chose to remain part of the UK. They have the freedom to leave Britain if they wish.

    I personally dont want the North back because we just couldnt afford it.


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    #236
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Madam_X wrote: »
    And I do think it's hypocritical to consume and enjoy lots of British culture ... simultaneously feeling animosity towards Britain.

    No more Chicken Tikka Masalas for me so.
    :pac:


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    #237
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Born and raised in Ireland, sympathetic to nationalists in Northern Ireland. I didn't just wear an item of clothing with the Irish flag on it, which, according to your logic, if I were not an Irish citizen, would be enough to make me Irish and republican if I wore it long enough.

    I don't think I've ever worn an item of clothing with the union jack on it, but if I did, it would mean **** all to do with politics - no matter what you want to think.
    You can have your warped opinion but please stop saying it's a fact. It is a (weird, fanatical) point of view, which by definition is not a fact.

    Out of all this, why would you wear a Union flag when its a political symbol, this is a fact, its the bloody flag of the UK!! Throw in our Northern friends and it gets deeply political.

    Noone expects you to wear an Irish symbol. Even myself has hardly worn any Irish symbol as I know I'm Irish, I don't need a symbol to remind me.


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    #238
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    gurramok wrote: »
    Its expected of GB artists as the Union flag is theirs. The Who, The Stones, Bowie, The Jam, The Beatles, and Oasis are all British.

    Are you saying that an Irish person cant wear one of their Union jack T-shirts?
    http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPmEH-Hir-w58JpydenHpiQaB3MdXgMb33ZHJ_9kqFUGi77h2hKA

    This is all getting very silly . . . . . .

    Goodnight y'all.


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    #239
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    DylanII wrote: »
    I didn't realise that we had an issue with anyone who is british in Ireland. I was also unaware that Northern Ireland was still disputed apart from a few IRA wannabes - Id say less than 1% of the population actually care.

    The English are not saying that the North is theirs. The people who live in Northern Ireland have chose to remain part of the UK. They have the freedom to leave Britain if they wish.

    I personally dont want the North back because we just couldnt afford it.

    Did you do a survey that says that only 1% want the North back?

    In case you didn't know the North is not part of Britain and yes many people across many political parties want reunification, not one party in the Dail does not want it.


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    #240
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I make a serious point in post#218.

    Seriously, it has become more than just a flag to many people across the globe.

    Yes, that was the post I had quoted. I cut it down so as not too clutter the thread with links.

    You're right that it has become more than just a flag to people across the Globe. And for that reason, I'm sure you can understand why it's often assumed that people wearing Union Jacks are meaning to make more than just a fashion statement.

    The same goes with Celtic and Rangers jerseys. Sure, wear them if you're simply a fan of the team! But please leave them in the Bedroom drawer if you're hoping to broadcast your ideology.


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    #241
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,355 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    If your clothes are what make you a nationality I'm not wearing this plain white t-shirt anymore, my French is terrible.

    That's my contribution to the collection of stereotypes in this thread. :pac:


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