Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

Grats

TurnOfPace wrote: »

Any word on Richie Hogan lads?

Heard it was severe cramp.

Grats

citykat wrote: »

I'd say it was just cramp. He was stretching the calf on 60 mins. Normally indicative of cramp. He'll be over it in a few days.

As I said in a previous post, in that last ten minutes we had Richie struggling with cramp, Larkin off colour after the sliding tackle from Gleesson and Colin Fen wrecked after giving it his lot. We needed to freshen things up with ten minutes to go. In not doing so we allowed Tipp to get a foothold in their backs and drive forward with Stapleton even managing to score.

Kkboy

Grats wrote: »

You're sticking with the same backs then? Our handling generally was poor yesterday and the amount of times a Kilkenny player dropped his hurl was unbelievable. In fact two points came from this as they couldn't get the block in.

Tipp forwards worked very hard yesterday to close down the forwards. I thought the Kilkenny backs went for long booming clearances at times rather then looking for players in a better position. As a result they where often blocked or hooked. I would be tempted to bring in Kieran Joyce due to his physical strength and ability in the air. Kilkenny had no back yesterday who could burst out of defence.

timogen

merryberry wrote: »

I agree with two of the above. The second peno wasn't a penalty. Lar was tackled and brought down outside the area. The free at the end could easily have been kilkenny free in or just wave play on. The 1st peno...well the question is where did the free take place. first contact was outside the square but without over carrying, bonnar was pulled down inside the box. The richie power helmet incident...the rules state a caution in first instance. Perhaps the Tipp back would have seen red if he pulled the helmet off powers head

I don't think you understand were i'm coming from. Out of the four decisions B.Kelly Had to make the two penos right or wrong he consulted his umpires, the last free he was beside so could make up his own mind. But from the R.Power incident which he was a good distance away from did he not consult the linesman, even with Richie remonstraighting as to what happened not to consult the linesman if he hadn't seen it to try and make the right call and maybe give the proper punishment for the offence.
Because if he had seen it and not to even issue a yellow card, would he being called bias against Kilkenny be valid?

Grats

Kkboy wrote: »

Tipp forwards worked very hard yesterday to close down the forwards. I thought the Kilkenny backs went for long booming clearances at times rather then looking for players in a better position. As a result they where often blocked or hooked. I would be tempted to bring in Kieran Joyce due to his physical strength and ability in the air. Kilkenny had no back yesterday who could burst out of defence.

Murphy, JJ and Buckley managed to burst out on occasions I thought. Buckley was often free to take a pass from a colleague but wasn't used. I wonder if he didn't call out.

Grats

timogen wrote: »

I don't think you understand were i'm coming from. Out of the four decisions B.Kelly Had to make the two penos right or wrong he consulted his umpires, the last free he was beside so could make up his own mind. But from the R.Power incident which he was a good distance away from did he not consult the linesman, even with Richie remonstraighting as to what happened not to consult the linesman if he hadn't seen it to try and make the right call and maybe give the proper punishment for the offence.
Because if he had seen it and not to even issue a yellow card, would he being called bias against Kilkenny be valid?

What did he give the free to Richie Power for?

holyhead

First thing is congrats to both teams on a memorable game. Tipp hurled out of their skin. They can't have too many complaints. We were ok. I think Babs ratings of the teams was fair enough 9 for Tipp and 6 for KK. Possibly 7 for KK. Barry Kelly definitely didn't have one of his best days. Three incidents stick out for me. Larkins "dive", Tipps second penalty outside the box and the helmet pull by I think Stapleton on I think Larkin. I'm not sure I buy into the anti KK ref bias. The lad just had an awful game. He is only human. The free conceded by Hogan at the death was also debatable though less obvious an error than the three aforementioned.
If we (KK) up our game next time out its our to win. Anyho may the best team win and if the game is anything like Sunday's then ultimately hurling will be the winner.

merryberry

timogen wrote: »

I don't think you understand were i'm coming from. Out of the four decisions B.Kelly Had to make the two penos right or wrong he consulted his umpires, the last free he was beside so could make up his own mind. But from the R.Power incident which he was a good distance away from did he not consult the linesman, even with Richie remonstraighting as to what happened not to consult the linesman if he hadn't seen it to try and make the right call and maybe give the proper punishment for the offence.
Because if he had seen it and not to even issue a yellow card, would he being called bias against Kilkenny be valid?

To put simply if the referee is in doubt he consults his officials regardless of whether he was right or wrong to do so. If he can make his own decision based on what he sees, which is the way the majority of the game should be refereed, he does not need to consult his officials regardless of whether he was right or wrong to do so

timogen

It depends on what way you look at it, he was a good distance away and might have thought in was just a simple tug to take Richie down which would be fair enough. But it wasn't and deserved at least a yellow Barry knew it was a foul and was given with Richies reaction to it why did he not consult the linesman to know exactly what happened, Because if he had seen it why no card? He has given yellows for less.

holyhead

Brian Hogan bursts forward out of defence at the death. Did he expect the Tipp player to shoulder him. Did the Tipp player block him legally. How did he (Hogan) concede the foul.

timogen

Grats wrote: »

What did he give the free to Richie Power for?

Richie was pulled down by the faceguard, Barry was a fair distance away and no card.

savannahkat

realdanbreen wrote: »

Oh now I get it, silly me.What you're saying is that Cody does know his best 15 but hasn't bothered sending them out yet!I must say that takes balls alright.

Four in a row over Tipp is still on.6 wins from the last 7 championship matches against Tipp under Cody is still fact ,the drive for 35 still alive and in between dishing out the worst hiding Tipp got in 120 years. Yep ye sure did draw with Kilkenny Dan and that was a massive improvement over the past four years but then again ye could not possible have been any worse.

savannahkat

Independent today gives the all clear for all the Kilkenny players after Sundays draw including Ritchie Hogan and Eoin Larkin.

dastardly00

savannahkat wrote: »

Independent today gives the all clear for all the Kilkenny players after Sundays draw including Ritchie Hogan and Eoin Larkin.

That's made my day

IrishAlice

As much as I would like to let this whole Barry Kely issue go before I do that I need to make one point as no one seems to be highlighting this.

merryberry wrote: »

Richie Power has his helmet pulled off him. No red card given to Tipperary.
Rules state that this warrants a caution in the 1st instance. If the helmet was pulled off him Stapleton probably would have seen red.

As of March this year rule 5.20 regarding headgear has been amended to state that any interference with a players helmet is resultant in a straight red card.

Barry Kelly should have consulted his linesmen in this incident as this was a clear red card incident.

Also, Michael Fennelly's helmet was pulled off of him in the first half too. Did anyone else see that? It happened so fast I wasn't sure exactly what went on.

merryberry

IrishAlice wrote: »

As much as I would like to let this whole Barry Kely issue go before I do that I need to make one point as no one seems to be highlighting this.

As of March this year rule 5.20 regarding headgear has been amended to state that any interference with a players helmet is resultant in a straight red card.

Barry Kelly should have consulted his linesmen in this incident as this was a clear red card incident.

Also, Michael Fennelly's helmet was pulled off of him in the first half too. Did anyone else see that? It happened so fast I wasn't sure exactly what went on.

Fair enough and well spotted. I will admit my error here as I was reading the rules I thought were the most up-to-date but obviously not. But the key word in the amended text is 'deliberate'. The most likely reason that no action was taken is that Kelly felt it wasn't a deliberate attempt by Stapleton to interfere with Powers helmet. Both players were jostling under a dropping ball which both players intended on catching. Of course hands are going to come in contact with the opposing player. The question is is one trying to gain an advantage over the other by committing that type of foul play. Not in this instance and before someone tells me to go back and look at it again, well I've done all that. Like I said previously if Stapleton had managed to pull his helmet off intentionally then he most likely would have seen red. Regarding his officials, well who are we to say the lineman would had a different opinion to the ref. He didn't exactly try and grab Kelly's attention after the incident. But it still doesn't change my opinion on the excessive complaining in this thread that Kilkenny seem to have had with Barry Kellys performance. I'm sure the Tipp supporters could give a few incidences but this is not for this thread of course.

Hidalgo

Regarding the replay.
Do kk people feel Cody will put Paul Murphy on Bonnar from the start. Murphy did very well when switched to curb the influence of Bonnar.
If they're on each other next time out whoever wins that individual dual should have a big say in the overall outcome

Deathwish4

Hidalgo wrote: »

Regarding the replay.
Do kk people feel Cody will put Paul Murphy on Bonnar from the start. Murphy did very well when switched to curb the influence of Bonnar.
If they're on each other next time out whoever wins that individual dual should have a big say in the overall outcome

Hard to know really..the fact that most of the Tipp forwards won their duels with the KK backs won't sit well with Cody. He'll surely mix it up somehow. KK lack pace at the back, pure and simple. Hogan has been declining on the club scene for a while now..but who can come in? Maybe Conor Fogarty to drop back into defence and P Walsh into midfield? Ponderables and Imponderables. In my humble opinion the team with the most improvement in them from the first day is Kilkenny, and that is why I think they'll win the replay.

realdanbreen

adrian522 wrote: »

Good post there, pretty much sums up my feelings and why I've not really posted much on this or the match thread.

Ever since the demise of a few other GAA discussion sites this place has been overrun and I'm just not able for it.

The match was great and while I'd say we should have won having been 4 points up and had at least 2 good chances to extend that we went out of the game a bit after that and were not able to hang on.

On the other hand if that free went over we would likely have been given one passage of play to equalise and I'm not sure we would have done so.

Earlier in the game when we were 5 points down and facing a penalty I would have gladly taken a draw, it was looking bad at that stage.

Looking forward to the replay now, wish it was this weekend.

Well summed up there, and with 10 minutes to go I would have taken the draw.Don't agree with you wishing it was this weekend though, I need to give the liver a chance to recover!

dcrosskid

Did Kilkenny have their banquet Sunday night? I believe Tipp went ahead with theirs and the players and management left then before 12. Reasonable for the supporters and players I thought.

Will Cody make many changes the next day? I reckon Walter Walsh will lose out with possibly Fogarty coming in.

KK4life

Fergus_Nash wrote: »

Did the referee help Maher when he caught a ball over Hogan's head and scored a goal?

Well to be honest, he did a kind of because Bonnar pushed Hogan in the back just as hogan went to try catch the ball. But look, these things happen in hurling. I'm not going to complain about it. It's in the past now, it is time to move on and look forward to the 27th

holyhead

Couldnt agree with Savannahkats assertion that without the refs decisions Tipp would have been beaten out of sight. Nonsense. Tipp outplayed us on Sunday on their own merits. Will they perform as well again? Not impossible.

TurnOfPace

holyhead wrote: »

Couldnt agree with Savannahkats assertion that without the refs decisions Tipp would have been beaten out of sight. Nonsense. Tipp outplayed us on Sunday on their own merits. Will they perform as well again? Not impossible.

Not impossible no. Kilkenny only hurled in spells the last day chances are they'll raise their game for the replay however the question I'd wonder is can Tipp match or even raise their performance from the last day?

Hidalgo

Deathwish4 wrote: »

Hard to know really..the fact that most of the Tipp forwards won their duels with the KK backs won't sit well with Cody. He'll surely mix it up somehow. KK lack pace at the back, pure and simple. Hogan has been declining on the club scene for a while now..but who can come in? Maybe Conor Fogarty to drop back into defence and P Walsh into midfield? Ponderables and Imponderables. In my humble opinion the team with the most improvement in them from the first day is Kilkenny, and that is why I think they'll win the replay.

I was impressed with Tipps off the ball movement. They did well to create space. If kk can keep it bunched at the back I can see the likes of Jackie having a far bigger impact next day out.
Quality of ball esp early on was better from Tipp. Quite a few balls were simply pumped in long and high which Barry did well to spoil a kk forward. I think kk were trying to target him early on.

As the game progressed both sets of forwards looked to have the beating of the other sides backs as the final score highlighted

Tom Joad

Locking thread to clean it up and hand out the cards. Will reopen later

droppingball

It will be extremely interesting to see what plan Cody will come with defensively the next day. Will he go man to man or what will he play it. The Tipperary running was killing us, Corbett, Shane Mcgrath, Woodlock and Bonner were killing us through the centre. To counteract there movement will be difficult.

I think Tipperary will target Holden, Jackie and particularily Brian Hogan again and probably go Ryan and Bubbles on the wings with Lar at centre forward, with Callanan in full and Bonnar and McGrath in the corners. Paul Murphy did a good job on Bonnar to be fair, he attacke everything from the front which is why he wins the ball so much but he is in big trouble when Bonnar wins it in the air or if it passes Murphy. I can't see Cody going with a sweeper, but also if you put Buckley on Lar, Murphy on Bonnar, Padraig Walsh on Bubbles and Brian Hogan on Gearoid Ryan that could still leave us out of shape and exposed down the centre. Its very hard to know how to play it.

This for me is the big fear, the forwards can score with a better selection and Richie Hogan as a spearhead but I'm worried that the backs will be sliced open again and Tipperary will be more ruthless next time. Cody likes to come back with something different for a replay and I'm sure Lyngers and McGarry will study the match again and again also.

All that said what a performance to be four points up after 60 minutes with Tipperary moving so well, they truly are incredible, the way Murphy, JJ and Richie Hogan performed for a 15 minute period at one stage was just animal altogether. The free that just dropped short and Richie Power tapping over that point would have been clinchers. Delighted to see Richie Power perform from the corner as I thought only full and centre suit him.

We surely have to put Richie Hogan centre forward and see how he goes and see how Tipperary react if he goes well there, he could be lethal given a few minutes at full forward also. Question is did we run out of gas after 60 minutes????

DoctaDee

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Tom Joad

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mullinr2

Reflecting on the game one can say that no one from Tipp played a bad game and had about 8 players who were v.good to outstanding on the day. The rest of them were good. On the kk team you could say that there was 6 v.good to outstanding players - Eoin Murphy, Paul Murphy, Richie Hogan, Tj Reid, Richie Power and Eoin Larkin. There was 3 players who had poor to average games and that was Brian Hogan, Jackie and Joey Holden. Walter Walsh was just shocking. The two Fennellys and Conor Forgarty were
average.
Only for those 6 players I mentioned kk were on a hiding to nowhere and if there isn't a major team performance improvement it will be a hiding.

mullinr2

Reflecting on the game one can say that no one from Tipp played a bad game and had about 8 players who were v.good to outstanding on the day. The rest of them were good. On the kk team you could say that there was 6 v.good to outstanding players - Eoin Murphy, Paul Murphy, Richie Hogan, Tj Reid, Richie Power and Eoin Larkin. There was 3 players who had poor to average games and that was Brian Hogan, Jackie and Joey Holden. Walter Walsh was just shocking. The two Fennellys and Conor Forgarty were
average.
Only for those 6 players I mentioned kk were on a hiding to nowhere and if there isn't a major team performance improvement it will be a hiding.