Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

EIRE1922

oconnol1 wrote: »

Has Barry Kelly retired.

With a surname like Kelly he clearly has Tipperary roots. I think he should retire. He was a joke and an utter disgrace yesterday! Even the Tipperary fans could not believe their luck yesterday with all the decisions he gave them.


Two penalties that were never penos.

Eoin Larkin free against for diving? Why would he dive. It is not like in soccer diving to get a peno or free. He wanted to score.

Eoin Larkin rugby tackled to the ground. No free.

Richie Power hit a slap by Darren Glesson during his first goal. No sanction.

Richie Power brought down in the Tipp square and no penalty for Kilkenny in the second half.

Richie Power has his helmet pulled off him. No red card given to Tipperary.

Brian Hogan is clearly fouled (shoulder into his chest) near the end of the match going for a winning point and he awards a free to Tipperary who thankfully missed it.

He gave Tipperary every 50/50 decision.

That umpire at the Canal end was a joke!

EIRE1922

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Lads ye had Richie hogan and tj reid on the line for the penalties which I found strange, any reasoning behind this?

Trade sceret! Nothing strange behind it at all in Kilkenny.

jeff bingham

Superb match to watch, cant wait for the replay. Both teams threw everything at it. Id imagine wally will be dropped. Joey holden will struggle to retain his positon aswell.

I disagree about the umpire. If its even a slight doubt in his mind he is better off going to hawkeye. Its only 20 seconds afterall....

timogen

EIRE1922 wrote: »

With a surname like Kelly he clearly has Tipperary roots. I think he should retire. He was a joke and an utter disgrace yesterday! Even the Tipperary fans could not believe their luck yesterday with all the decisions he gave them.


Two penalties that were never penos.

Eoin Larkin free against for diving? Why would he dive. It is not like in soccer diving to get a peno or free. He wanted to score.

Eoin Larkin rugby tackled to the ground. No free.

Richie Power hit a slap by Darren Glesson during his first goal. No sanction.

Richie Power brought down in the Tipp square and no penalty for Kilkenny in the second half.

Richie Power has his helmet pulled off him. No red card given to Tipperary.

Brian Hogan is clearly fouled (shoulder into his chest) near the end of the match going for a winning point and he awards a free to Tipperary who thankfully missed it.

He gave Tipperary every 50/50 decision.

That umpire at the Canal end was a joke!

While I feel Barry Kelly may have a bias against Kilkenny he may have inadvertently cost tipp the game yesterday. Here is why I feel he is bias for the two penalties he consulted the umpires as he wasn't to sure. But the pull on Richie's faceguard which he was a distance away from he had awarded a free so he knew Richie had been fouled , Richie signalled what had happened but never asked the linesman as he may of had to send a tipp player to the line.
As to why I feel he may have cost tipp the game if he had actually called the penalties which I believe were frees tipp may have popped them over the bar and the result may have been different in tipps favour.

Hidalgo

EIRE1922 wrote: »

With a surname like Kelly he clearly has Tipperary roots. I think he should retire. He was a joke and an utter disgrace yesterday! Even the Tipperary fans could not believe their luck yesterday with all the decisions he gave them.


Two penalties that were never penos.

Eoin Larkin free against for diving? Why would he dive. It is not like in soccer diving to get a peno or free. He wanted to score.

Eoin Larkin rugby tackled to the ground. No free.

Richie Power hit a slap by Darren Glesson during his first goal. No sanction.

Richie Power brought down in the Tipp square and no penalty for Kilkenny in the second half.

Richie Power has his helmet pulled off him. No red card given to Tipperary.

Brian Hogan is clearly fouled (shoulder into his chest) near the end of the match going for a winning point and he awards a free to Tipperary who thankfully missed it.

He gave Tipperary every 50/50 decision.

That umpire at the Canal end was a joke!

He gave the free against Larkin for diving. Larkin has been caught for this on 1 or 2 occasions in the past.

For the 2nd pen the foul was committed outside the box but the Tipp player went to ground inside.
I can't fathom why any KK fan would be upset about the pens being given. It worked better for kk as if frees had been awarded points would most likely have been taken.

Hitchens

Hidalgo wrote: »

I can't fathom why any KK fan would be upset about the pens being given. It worked better for kk as if frees had been awarded points would most likely have been taken.

but that scenario would then change everything that followed..........and nobody knows what the outcome would have been finally

dirkmeister

Hitchens wrote: »

but that scenario would then change everything that followed..........and nobody knows what the outcome would have been finally

The big penalty call he got wrong, as I've said already was when Larkin was cleaned out of it by Gleeson.

Getting the ball doesn't matter, you can't slide tackle a man.

Mick Kavanagh wasn't happy with Barry Kelly on the radio either.

At the time I thought Kelly had gotten the last free correct, but after looking at it on TV I can't get my head around what a crazy decision it was. He couldn't blow the whistle fast enough.

Philip82

Just back from Dublin,what a weekend!!! Most of the topics are been covered here already but I have to raise two things that the GAA should be shameful of yesterday. I have never seen a team captain presented with a winning cup in any kind of match and not allowed make a speech and thank his team,managers, opposition and the like.Id love to hear why???
Leaving the Hogan Stand after the match was unbeleivable. Put barriers up around the exit and guards were physically pushing people young and old down the road in a direction they didnt want to go. It was chaotic and could have turned very sour. 80 euro to be treated like that wont wash well!
Anyway congrats to the minors on a great win and the seniors for giving us another spectacle!!!

IrishAlice

IrishAlice wrote: »

He should have brought Shefflin on earlier and given him a chance to get up to pace, 5 minutes is useless.

To be fair to our forwards though once Wally was replaced by Fogarty it was hard to justify taking anyone else off.

I think Sheffs legs are gone to be honest although if he found space in the right area he has useful wrists. Maybe the same argument could be made for Eoin Kelly but it would be a poor argument. I would admit that Shefflin could offer Kilkenny more than Eoin offers ourselves but he no longer justifies a starting spot. Sheff will retire when this final concludes whether they win lose or draw and a few other Kilkenny greats could well follow. Our own contingent of over 30s apart from perhaps Darren Gleeson and maybe also Lar will really consider calling it a day too.

GerB40

Philip82 wrote: »

Just back from Dublin,what a weekend!!! Most of the topics are been covered here already but I have to raise two things that the GAA should be shameful of yesterday. I have never seen a team captain presented with a winning cup in any kind of match and not allowed make a speech and thank his team,managers, opposition and the like.Id love to hear why???
Leaving the Hogan Stand after the match was unbeleivable. Put barriers up around the exit and guards were physically pushing people young and old down the road in a direction they didnt want to go. It was chaotic and could have turned very sour. 80 euro to be treated like that wont wash well!
Anyway congrats to the minors on a great win and the seniors for giving us another spectacle!!!

Ya I wondered what the gardaí were at, like fúckin riot control at one stage...

EIRE1922

jeff bingham wrote: »

Superb match to watch, cant wait for the replay. Both teams threw everything at it. Id imagine wally will be dropped. Joey holden will struggle to retain his positon aswell.

I disagree about the umpire. If its even a slight doubt in his mind he is better off going to hawkeye. Its only 20 seconds afterall....

I think if that umpire went to tie his own laces, he would have called for Hawk-eye to see if he tied them right or even at all!

Yes, Wally was poor. I do not think he is up to it.

Kkboy

Interesting to see what changes will be made for the replay. The difficulty that the Kilkenny backs had in catching the ball must bring Kieran Joyce back into contention.

citykat

Philip82 wrote: »

I have never seen a team captain presented with a winning cup in any kind of match and not allowed make a speech and thank his team,managers, opposition and the like.Id love to hear why???


Leaving the Hogan Stand after the match was unbeleivable. Put barriers up around the exit and guards were physically pushing people young and old down the road in a direction they didnt want to go. It was chaotic and could have turned very sour. 80 euro to be treated like that wont wash well!
Anyway congrats to the minors on a great win and the seniors for giving us another spectacle!!!

+2. Think there was actually a band striking up when he got the cup. There is way too much bs in Croke park on big match days now. Leave it alone to that annoying f***er hector.

Was also in the Hogan stand. Crowd management on exiting was abysmal, a joke. Very poor organisation from Croke Park/Gardai.

realdanbreen

EIRE1922 wrote: »

With a surname like Kelly he clearly has Tipperary roots. I think he should retire. He was a joke and an utter disgrace yesterday! Even the Tipperary fans could not believe their luck yesterday with all the decisions he gave them.


Two penalties that were never penos.

Eoin Larkin free against for diving? Why would he dive. It is not like in soccer diving to get a peno or free. He wanted to score.

Eoin Larkin rugby tackled to the ground. No free.

Richie Power hit a slap by Darren Glesson during his first goal. No sanction.

Richie Power brought down in the Tipp square and no penalty for Kilkenny in the second half.

Richie Power has his helmet pulled off him. No red card given to Tipperary.

Brian Hogan is clearly fouled (shoulder into his chest) near the end of the match going for a winning point and he awards a free to Tipperary who thankfully missed it.

He gave Tipperary every 50/50 decision.

That umpire at the Canal end was a joke!

It just shows what happens when a county's supporters spend 3 weeks abusing and insulting a referee. The amusing thing is that ye then seem to be amazed that the intimidation tactics backfired on ye.

mullinr2

Kkboy wrote: »

Interesting to see what changes will be made for the replay. The difficulty that the Kilkenny backs had in catching the ball must bring Kieran Joyce back into contention.

Who would you put Joyce in for?
I think Padraig Walsh tackling ability would be greatly needed for the next day.
Cody should go for our best attack the next day so for me that means that Walter Walsh has to be dropped. Mick Fennelly and Richie Hogan to switch places or keep Fennelly in the forwards with Padraig Walsh in midfield and Joyce in for Holden.
I think Cody will be more tactically aware for the next day. We know what Tipp offer and they won't change their tactics. We should be more prepared for it the next day if the changes are made

Justice for the individual

Philip82 wrote: »

Just back from Dublin,what a weekend!!! Most of the topics are been covered here already but I have to raise two things that the GAA should be shameful of yesterday. I have never seen a team captain presented with a winning cup in any kind of match and not allowed make a speech and thank his team,managers, opposition and the like.Id love to hear why???
Leaving the Hogan Stand after the match was unbeleivable. Put barriers up around the exit and guards were physically pushing people young and old down the road in a direction they didnt want to go. It was chaotic and could have turned very sour. 80 euro to be treated like that wont wash well!
Anyway congrats to the minors on a great win and the seniors for giving us another spectacle!!!

We had Nally Stand tickets, but it was packed at half time during the minor game. We tried to get up the Nally but too packed.

A lot of supporters started to complain to the stewards but a guy in a suit/white shirt was not for turning. When I appealed about the health and safety issue a sensible garda and a Safety Officer brought us around and let us into the Hill 16 section which had plenty of space.

After the match the gardai and stewards, on the way out to the Clonliffe road were herding people heading right, to the left, causing mayhem. I never saw that before - a peculiar decision.

Apart from all that, what a match and looking forward to Kilkenny settling the matter the next day out. Two changes in the half back line, Joyce and P. Walshe, Ryan midfield, one of Taggy, Henry, Tommy to start, and the other two to come on.

ttowncat

Changes for the next day-
Padraig Walsh has to be wing back.
Would Sheff be able for centre forward role, like the role that riche hogan played when he moved there on PMaher(which the sunday game highlighted) Th

Grats

Want it get the ref out of my system first - I'm not going into the many biased incidents against Kilkenny as they have been swell documented. I will just refer to the last free awarded which every commentator agrees should not have been a free to Tipp. Coincidently, or not!, the same ref awarded a very dubious free to Galway to draw the Final in 2012.

When posters mentioned their reservations about this ref we were told to lay off. Unfortunately our worries were realised, again, yesterday. Suffice to say that throughout the entire game Tipp supporters found no reason to show disappointment with the refs handling of the game. In fact they clapped him off the pitch on the Cusack Stand side afterwards. That sums it up.

I will post my thoughts on both games in a separate post later.

Hitchens

Brian Gavin and James McGrath are the frontrunners to referee the All-Ireland hurling final replay on September 27.

Kkboy

mullinr2 wrote: »

Who would you put Joyce in for?
I think Padraig Walsh tackling ability would be greatly needed for the next day.
Cody should go for our best attack the next day so for me that means that Walter Walsh has to be dropped. Mick Fennelly and Richie Hogan to switch places or keep Fennelly in the forwards with Padraig Walsh in midfield and Joyce in for Holden.
I think Cody will be more tactically aware for the next day. We know what Tipp offer and they won't change their tactics. We should be more prepared for it the next day if the changes are made

Joey Holden, it does lead to obvious question marks over the pace of the halfback line. But Joyce is one of the best backs to catch a ball in the country, Gleason's puck outs where excellent yesterday. I felt that the Kilkenny backs struggled under them.

ttowncat

Changes for the next day-
Padraig Walsh has to be wing back.
Would Sheff be able for centre forward role, like the role that riche hogan played when he moved there on PMaher(which the sunday game highlighted) Then I'd have Richie Hogan and Mick Fennelly midfield. Surely Mick Fennelly's fitness must be near 100% at this stage and he doesnt have the 180degree turning that you would expect from a wing forward. Conor fogarty did alright but again like the joey holden story is lacking the final 'inches'- a bad wide and bonnar got his goal from the puckout, getting turned over in the dying minutes for another tipp point...
Cathal Barrett is seriously sticky and ideal for the big men like Wally and Sheff, but Taggy should be the match for him.

Tactics changes- Kilkenny backs have to be more cynical when it comes to Tipp getting a sniff of goal, Tipp fouled time and time again whenever a KK man got inside at the expense of the pointed free. Then again Tipp have the capability to point their way to success, you need to score something around or above the 33 point mark and that Tipp team yesterday could have done that. Callanan could score regularly with his runs to the 45 flag and turn over the shoulder.

Jackie was off the pace, lethargic or just tired. got blocked/turned over at the end, as well as the intercepted hand pass earlier. He has to be better the next day. The backs can't let Bonnar catch when he's in behind them.

Please God don't let anyone be injured. Any word on Richie and Colin?

Justice for the individual

Grats wrote: »

Want it get the ref out of my system first - I'm not going into the many biased incidents against Kilkenny as they have been swell documented. I will just refer to the last free awarded which every commentator agrees should not have been a free to Tipp. Coincidently, or not!, the same ref awarded a very dubious free to Galway to draw the Final in 2012.

When posters mentioned their reservations about this ref we were told to lay off. Unfortunately our worries were realised, again, yesterday. Suffice to say that throughout the entire game Tipp supporters found no reason to show disappointment with the refs handling of the game. In fact they clapped him off the pitch on the Cusack Stand side afterwards. That sums it up.

I will post my thoughts on both games in a separate post later.

The last free was a 50/50 ball and the advantage should have gone to Hogan as he had the ball! The free could have just as easily gone to Kilkenny, but Kelly, true to form, choose to give it to Tipperary - it could have been costly.

If it had been given to Kilkenny, it was nearer to the Tipperary goal, and more likely to have been scored. Look again at it, and see what you think.

There will be a new referee for the re-play, am I correct with this.

Grats

ttowncat wrote: »

Changes for the next day-
Padraig Walsh has to be wing back.
Would Sheff be able for centre forward role, like the role that riche hogan played when he moved there on PMaher(which the sunday game highlighted) Th

I was one who advocated starting Joey Holden and holding P Walsh in reserve. I saw Walsh as the ideal sub to bring on at wing back, centre field or in the forwards. For the replay I would definitely start him at wing back as Joey is lacking the cuteness just yet. Joyce has to be at the ready for centre back if Hogan struggles there again.

It looks like M Fennelly is ready to return to midfield which would mean a huge boost for the forward division with Richie Hogan starting up front. So we'd have Richie, TJ, Colin Fen, Richie Power, Larkin plus one other. If Henry is fit he has to start. Bringing him on late in games isn't the best option any longer. In fact I don't understand why he wasn't started up to now. This notion that he mightn't last shouldn't be an issue as Mark Kelly and Wally didn't last in the previous two matches. Anyway I believe Henry would last the game. Cody has stated there is seventy minutes in him so why doesn't he start him?


Colin Fen ran himself into the ground yesterday and was clearly struggling in the last 10 minutes. R Hogan was suffering with cramp around the same time and Larkin was in trouble after been on the receiving end of the sliding tackle from the Tipp goalkeeper. That was three forwards struggling in the last ten minutes - is it any wonder the Tipp backs got on top? We were way too slow sending in fresh players. Having said that, Taggy didn't exactly set the world on fire during his spell on the pitch.

Eoin Murphy justified his selection. At least there will be no uncertainty in the lead up to the replay.

Grats

Justice for the individual wrote: »

The last free was a 50/50 ball and the advantage should have gone to Hogan as he had the ball! The free could have just as easily gone to Kilkenny, but Kelly, true to form, choose to give it to Tipperary - it could have been costly.

If it had been given to Kilkenny, it was nearer to the Tipperary goal, and more likely to have been scored. Look again at it, and see what you think.

There will be a new referee for the re-play, am I correct with this.

Not only do I agree with you but so do most commentators.

Yes, different ref for replay. Most likely Brian Gavin.

EIRE1922

According to Marty Morroissey on the radio this evening it was said that Barry Kelly was seen giving the thumbs up to Tipperary supporters at the end of the match yesterday not realising that their were several Kilkenny fans in between them. That there is to be an inverstigation into his conduct and the number of balant decisions that he gave against Killkenny.

Not sure how true this is, Just saw it online.

EIRE1922

Grats wrote: »

Not only do I agree with you but so do most commentators.

Yes, different ref for replay. Most likely Brian Gavin.

Gavin or Owens. Hopefully not Owens.

Fergus_Nash

savannahkat wrote: »

You can bet your shirt it will make the difference. There is no way this Tipp will live with Kilkenny if Kilkenny hit top form. The Bonner, Lar and Noel McGrath have been pumped up year after year as super forwards and now Bubbles and Callahan have become part of the media myth about their near invincibility. What have they won, 1 All Ireland against a very depleted Kilkenny outfit in six years of trying. We would have to play shy*e and they have to find 15 pairs of bal*s overnight for us not to beat them.

savannahkat wrote: »

They still have only won the same one All Ireland and it is all they are going to win.

The Tipperary forwards have shown their bottle, for them to stay calm and hit three points in the last five minutes rather than go for goal is phenomenal.

The Bonner (terrorised Brian Hogan, came out 50/50 with Murphy), Lar (two wonderful points, almost the goal of the season) and McGrath (four points from play) have shown they are super forwards. Bubbles and Callanan are All-Stars. Both teams played brilliantly, and both are equal. Now stop talking rubbish.

EIRE1922

realdanbreen wrote: »

It just shows what happens when a county's supporters spend 3 weeks abusing and insulting a referee. The amusing thing is that ye then seem to be amazed that the intimidation tactics backfired on ye.

What rubbish are you on about? Any honest Tipperary fan yesterday too saw that he blaggared Kilkenny. If he gave those decisions to Kilkenny we would all have said the same. Actually the ref blaggared Kilkenny and in doing so he ruined the winning of it for Tipperary.

Take off you blinkers!

Brian017

EIRE1922 wrote: »

According to Marty Morroissey on the radio this evening it was said that Barry Kelly was seen giving the thumbs up to Tipperary supporters at the end of the match yesterday not realising that their were several Kilkenny fans in between them. That there is to be an inverstigation into his conduct and the number of balant decisions that he gave against Killkenny.

Not sure how true this is, Just saw it online.

Didn't he also give a wink to a Galway player after he told the ref to send him off in the 2012 Replay?

EIRE1922

Fergus_Nash wrote: »

The Tipperary forwards have shown their bottle, for them to stay calm and hit three points in the last five minutes rather than go for goal is phenomenal.

The Bonner (terrorised Brian Hogan, came out 50/50 with Murphy), Lar (two wonderful points, almost the goal of the season) and McGrath (four points from play) have shown they are super forwards. Bubbles and Callanan are All-Stars. Both teams played brilliantly, and both are equal. Now stop talking rubbish.

The Bonner was below par. Apart from the goal he did little.

You mean no goal of the season? Bottle? Bottle of Lucozade? :P Bubbles, McGrath and Corbett played well as did Callanan. The Referee played a blinder for Tipperary too!