Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

adrian522

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Congrats on the minor title, but can someone explain in a nutshell how in the name of 'bejaysus that team registered just 0-3 against Dublin in their first game? What the hell happened there?!

Not sure but was it short after the college's final?

Speak Now

adrian522 wrote: »

Not sure but was it short after the college's final?

Brutal days weather as well.

Charlie69

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Brutal days weather as well.

Quite a few changes to the team that played Dublin too.

earlytobed

There was quite a discussion on here at the time regarding Kilkenny's lack of training, gym training, poor manager etc, but they came good in the end

Kkboy

Charlie69 wrote: »

Quite a few changes to the team that played Dublin too.

But also by far our best player that day injured since then.

droppingball

Massive credit to the minors they were outstanding and the management had them playing to a system and playing good heads up hurling. Scanlon in midfield is some bit of stuff, serious engine and plenty of hurling in him. Full forward line were all dangerous, great to see good forwards coming through again.

mullinr2

droppingball wrote: »

Massive credit to the minors they were outstanding and the management had them playing to a system and playing good heads up hurling. Scanlon in midfield is some bit of stuff, serious engine and plenty of hurling in him. Full forward line were all dangerous, great to see good forwards coming through again.

Yeah that was the most appealing aspect of the minor win - the good quality skillful forward which has being lacking with recent under age teams.
Anyone think Kevin Kelly and Ger Alwaryd will make it as Seniors? Both very skillful players especially Kelly

droppingball

mullinr2 wrote: »

Yeah that was the most appealing aspect of the minor win - the good quality skillful forward which has being lacking with recent under age teams.
Anyone think Kevin Kelly and Ger Alwaryd will make it as Seniors? Both very skillful players especially Kelly

Agree both skillful players and could be the fresh blood required. However I worry that Kelly may not work hard enough for Cody, he can be a little casual, extremely talented all the same. Ger Alyward will make it im sure but tends to be a little selfish. Cody could turn those two into proper players.

What a pity we dont have a fit Richie Doyle or a Brian Kenneddy that is a year further on in his development to help out the backs, they would/will make some difference as they are extremely talented also.

mullinr2

droppingball wrote: »

Agree both skillful players and could be the fresh blood required. However I worry that Kelly may not work hard enough for Cody, he can be a little casual, extremely talented all the same. Ger Alyward will make it im sure but tends to be a little selfish. Cody could turn those two into proper players.

What a pity we dont have a fit Richie oDoyle or a Brian Kenneddy that is a year further on in his development to help out the backs, they would/will make some difference as they are extremely talented also.

Im sure Cody would let Kelly know what is expected of him. It would be a shame if he didn't make it.
Is Richie Doyles inter county career over for him? Anyone know how is progressing with his injuries?

Charlie69

droppingball wrote: »

Agree both skillful players and could be the fresh blood required. However I worry that Kelly may not work hard enough for Cody, he can be a little casual, extremely talented all the same. Ger Alyward will make it im sure but tends to be a little selfish. Cody could turn those two into proper players.

What a pity we dont have a fit Richie Doyle or a Brian Kenneddy that is a year further on in his development to help out the backs, they would/will make some difference as they are extremely talented also.

Agree with all of this, I really thought K Kelly would have made the breakthrough this year( I know he was injured), I'm a huge fan of his and regard him as one of the the most talented hurlers in Kilkenny.

I also think B Kennedy would be the perfect type of defender for this Tipp team, with his turn of pace, tenacity in the tackle and his ability to play anywhere in the full or half back line, the interchanging and movement of the Tipp forwards wouldn't pose as many problems for him as it did for others the last day.

droppingball

mullinr2 wrote: »

Yeah that was the most appealing aspect of the minor win - the good quality skillful forward which has being lacking with recent under age teams.
Anyone think Kevin Kelly and Ger Alwaryd will make it as Seniors? Both very skillful players especially Kelly

Agree both skillful players and could be the fresh blood required. However I worry that Kelly may not work hard enough for Cody, he can be a little casual, extremely talented all the same. Ger Alyward will make it im sure but tends to be a little selfish. Cody could turn those two into proper players.

What a pity we dont have a fit Richie Doyle or a Brian Kenneddy that is a year further on in his development to help out the backs, they would/will make some difference as they are extremely talented also.

me89

Brian Gavin confirmed as the ref for the replay.

babyjesus14

During Richie Mulrooneys time as Minor manager Kilkenny reached the final every year winning in '08 and '10 and losing to Galway in '09. What was particularily noticeable about these teams was the number of players from Intermediate and Junior clubs. Nickey Brennan wrote an article in the Kilkenny People in the autumn of '10 congratulating Richie and his team on their achievements and pointing out the fact that( can't remember the exact figure) but close to 70% of the players involved were from Intermediate/Junior clubs. However he did pose the question could this fact come against them in their development over the next few years.
On Sunday, 7 players from those years (not a great return) got game time. Fogarty, Buckley, Holden(couldn't make the team in '08, but was his Minor year), P Walsh and J Power all playing with Senior clubs and E Murphy and W Walsh playing with Intermediate clubs. So has Nickey's fears come to pass, is their club hurling hampering the progress of the likes of Kevin Kelly, Ger Alyward, Richie Doyle, Joe Brennan, Luke Harney, Brian Kennedy etc.?

realdanbreen

me89 wrote: »

Brian Gavin confirmed as the ref for the replay.

I woludn't have any problem with him.

mercury16

I've been saying this for years.... Kilkenny badly need Divisional Sides playing in the senior competition to allow for these talented underage players playing at Junior and Intermediate grades where the training and standards are not the same.

In addition, minor hurlers from senior clubs are thought cuteness, how to win tight contests and skills of the game, as they play on their senior teams...these are not present on intermediate or junior teams.

As a small county we need to mine all the talent..we do so at minor level, but then let it go when it comes to nuturing it from 18 yrs to 25 years. Yes 18 as their is no development squad and a lot of players are cut.

I think we should have divisional sides fed by the junior and intermediate clubs for players from 18 to 25 yrs old. This could feed the intermediate county team.

unrealtime

while we did concede a lot of points towards the end of the game, we were never outplayed and we were certainly not lucky to draw. Indeed from around the 25th to the 60th minute, we scored 3-11 to 10 points only for Tipp and Richie squandered a simple tapover point then. I would argue that if we had defended better after that we could not have been caught. I think that the advantage is with us the next day. Padraig Walsh has to start at Right half and I would put Fogarty at left full leaving out Jackie and Joey. Hogan was fine I thought and covered a lot of ground. He is showing form now in recent times.

andyman

Charlie69 wrote: »

Agree with all of this, I really thought K Kelly would have made the breakthrough this year( I know he was injured), I'm a huge fan of his and regard him as one of the the most talented hurlers in Kilkenny.

I also think B Kennedy would be the perfect type of defender for this Tipp team, with his turn of pace, tenacity in the tackle and his ability to play anywhere in the full or half back line, the interchanging and movement of the Tipp forwards wouldn't pose as many problems for him as it did for others the last day.

With all the talk of the referee I really don't think enough people realise that the backs could be a huge problem come the replay. Tipp had so many goal chances and to be honest I can't see where the change is going to come from. P Walsh has to come in in my opinion but it's the full-back line where most of the damage was done. JJ and Jackie lost Callanan and Lar plenty of times and, even though he had a good game overall, Murphy's covering for the former two meant McGrath was able to score 4 off him.

I don't think marking the space on the wings worked at all. McGrath, Lar, Bubbles and Ryan really played well in this regard with their constant movement while Callanan and Bonner stuck to their positions. Having said that, I don't think strict man-marking is the answer either. It'd be a bigger clusterfudge.

Hopefully Cody has a trick up his sleeve (like bringing in Walter in 2012). Maybe he might think Cathal McGrath or someone from the minors are ready

Fwank wizzo

andyman wrote: »

With all the talk of the referee I really don't think enough people realise that the backs could be a huge problem come the replay. Tipp had so many goal chances and to be honest I can't see where the change is going to come from. P Walsh has to come in in my opinion but it's the full-back line where most of the damage was done. JJ and Jackie lost Callanan and Lar plenty of times and, even though he had a good game overall, Murphy's covering for the former two meant McGrath was able to score 4 off him.

I don't think marking the space on the wings worked at all. McGrath, Lar, Bubbles and Ryan really played well in this regard with their constant movement while Callanan and Bonner stuck to their positions. Having said that, I don't think strict man-marking is the answer either. It'd be a bigger clusterfudge.

Hopefully Cody has a trick up his sleeve (like bringing in Walter in 2012). Maybe he might think Cathal McGrath or someone from the minors are ready

I'd say Brian Hogan,Joey Holden and Walsh are going to be sitting it out the next day.

Colin & Michael Fennelly (bar the last 15 mins) should consider themselves on a yellow card also.

My team for the next day

1.murphy

2.murphy
3.jj
4.fogarty

5.tommy junior
6.lester
7.buckley

8.m.fennelly
9.c.fennelly

10.r.hogan
11.larkin
12.tj

13.kelly
14.fogarty
15.power.

I'd reckon that team will finish the job and win it well especially if JJ tightens up.we were way too open down the middle the last day.Also bar Larkin and JJ,none of those lads would be found lacking in a sprint.
I think we f##### up on the line on Sunday,tbh.

Charlie69

Charlie69 wrote: »

One thing's for certain if we start the final with the same team and tactics as the semi final we are going to lose this All Ireland.

We played some great hurling all through the league and added some great strength to our panel, and while the team was far from settled come the start of the championship, enough players had shown enough to believe we were in good shape.

It is my belief though that cody's failure to see that Jackie wasn't going to work out at centre back early enough has undone a lot of the good work.

The drawn game with Galway or the last ten minutes in particular has caused far too much panic among the KK selectors and has caused them to start from scratch.

For sure changes had to be made for the replay and maybe a player like Holden was perfectly suited to the Galway aerial threat but too many changes were made not only to personnel but to our playing style which has now become far too negative.

To play B Hogan for me you have to play P Walsh and Buckley at 5 and 7 , have M Fennelly play the Defensive MF role alongside R Hogan and that for me offers plenty enough cover to the backs.

If we go out with as negative a set up as we did v Limerick , Tipp will pick off points from long range all day and beat us out the gate because we wont score enough employing those tactics.

Thats my 2 cents

I posted this back in August but would now also worry about Jackie at number 4, although he had a fairly decent game he got caught for pace quite a few times and got turned over a couple of times towards the end of the game when he tired.

I would also add that Conor fogarty is not the answer at corner back as a number of posters have suggested, he seriously lacks pace and was badly exposed by "Dotsy" V Dublin in Portlaoise last year.

Fort Stranger

I can't believe the goalkeepers challenge on Larkin was waved on, he completely took him out and it was Larkins hurl that got the ball and as for the helmet pull?

babyjesus14

Fort Stranger wrote: »

I can't believe the goalkeepers challenge on Larkin was waved on, he completely took him out and it was Larkins hurl that got the ball and as for the helmet pull?

Whether it was Gleeson or Larkin who made contact with the ball is immaterial, the slide tackle in hurling is illegal.

mullinr2

Fwank wizzo wrote: »

I'd say Brian Hogan,Joey Holden and Walsh are going to be sitting it out the next day.

Colin & Michael Fennelly (bar the last 15 mins) should consider themselves on a yellow card also.

My team for the next day

1.murphy

2.murphy
3.jj
4.fogarty

5.tommy junior
6.lester
7.buckley

8.m.fennelly
9.c.fennelly

10.r.hogan
11.larkin
12.tj

13.kelly
14.fogarty
15.power.

I'd reckon that team will finish the job and win it well especially if JJ tightens up.we were way too open down the middle the last day.Also bar Larkin and JJ,none of those lads would be found lacking in a sprint.
I think we f##### up on the line on Sunday,tbh.

Mark Kelly are you f##king kidding me! What can he offer to deserve a starting place?

babyjesus14

mullinr2 wrote: »

Mark Kelly are you f##king kidding me! What can he offer to deserve a starting place?

Snap, i was hoping he was talking about Kevin Kelly!

Fwank wizzo

mullinr2 wrote: »

Mark Kelly are you f##king kidding me! What can he offer to deserve a starting place?

An eye for goal and the ability to at least keep up with the corner back if possession is lost.
Those Tipp 2/4 boys are fast.At least put someone in there with a bit of speed this time and Kelly is the one I'd pick to start over Henry,john joe and wally for this game.The 3 lads would be ran ragged.You just can't put a slow corner forward in there,a blind man would see that.

dastardly00

Fwank wizzo wrote: »

An eye for goal and the ability to at least keep up with the corner back if possession is lost.
Those Tipp 2/4 boys are fast.At least put someone in there with a bit of speed this time and Kelly is the one I'd pick to start over Henry,john joe and wally for this game.The 3 lads would be ran ragged.You just can't put a slow corner forward in there,a blind man would see that.

It's that train of thought that led to the fiasco in '12 when Tipp decided to have their marque forward Lar marking Tommy!

Kelly has shown that he has an eye for goal, and he did very well in the league. But in the championship he has struggled and looked out of his depth. I'm sure the experience this year will bring him on a lot and he'll be much improved next year. I wouldn't have him starting (or coming on as a sub) in the replay.

babyjesus14

dastardly00 wrote: »

It's that train of thought that led to the fiasco in '12 when Tipp decided to have their marque forward Lar marking Tommy!

Kelly has shown that he has an eye for goal, and he did very well in the league. But in the championship he has struggled and looked out of his depth. I'm sure the experience this year will bring him on a lot and he'll be much improved next year. I wouldn't have him starting (or coming on as a sub) in the replay.

At 26/27 i doubt there is a whole lot more improvement in him. He was worth trying out but as you said yourself he's "out of his depth".

Miall108

Fwank wizzo wrote: »

An eye for goal and the ability to at least keep up with the corner back if possession is lost.
Those Tipp 2/4 boys are fast.At least put someone in there with a bit of speed this time and Kelly is the one I'd pick to start over Henry,john joe and wally for this game.The 3 lads would be ran ragged.You just can't put a slow corner forward in there,a blind man would see that.

First of all Kelly is out of his depth, and we need more than a forward who can keep up with his man to beat Tipp in fairness. Thats why Taggy Fogarty should start cos he has blistering pace, if anything the fact that Taggy was first sub on for Wally may give us an insight into what the team may be next day out. Brian looked to have went with pace and Im sure thats what he will do the next day to counterract the Tipp backs. Taggy has pedigree along with his obvious asset of pace and aswell has experience of the big day which is crucial. I think he will be starting, similarly with Padraig Walsh. I dont agree with Jackie being taken out of the team though and certainly not Conor Fogarty corner back in his place, he was destroyed against Dublin last year and on the occasion I saw him there during the league he was destroyed there again in the Galway game. He doesnt have the pace nor the physical strength to make up for it. Id have Jackie following Lar and he needs to use possession quicker.

dirkmeister

I don't think that Cody will be making wholesale changes.

Here's the team that I THINK will start.

Murphy
P Murphy
JJ
Jackie
P Walsh
B Hogan
Buckley
R Hogan
C Fogarty
C Fennelly
M Fennelly
E Larkin
R Power
TJ Reid
A Fogarty

I think the key is that we don't panic, a small thing will shade it for Kilkenny. Tipp had a lot of goal chances but so had we. We really need to keep it tight at the back and stop the stupid f£$king mistakes, in the second half especially there was some really uncharacteristic stuff like Buckleys fumble.

Kilkenny showed great resilience to come from 6 points down to be in a winning position, that's what makes the last 5 minutes so frustrating.
I think we have every chance.

dastardly00

I totally agree with Jackie staying at corner back, and not moving Conor Fogarty in there instead.

Speaking of Conor Fogarty, playing him in midfield has been a big surprise for me. I think he's done really really well, considering that he's not that fast, strong or skillful. He isn't that accurate at shooting either.
And he's never stood out when playing corner back.

Anyone care to explain Conor's success in the midfield position?

Fwank wizzo

Miall108 wrote: »

First of all Kelly is out of his depth, and we need more than a forward who can keep up with his man to beat Tipp in fairness. Thats why Taggy Fogarty should start cos he has blistering pace, if anything the fact that Taggy was first sub on for Wally may give us an insight into what the team may be next day out. Brian looked to have went with pace and Im sure thats what he will do the next day to counterract the Tipp backs. Taggy has pedigree along with his obvious asset of pace and aswell has experience of the big day which is crucial. I think he will be starting, similarly with Padraig Walsh. I dont agree with Jackie being taken out of the team though and certainly not Conor Fogarty corner back in his place, he was destroyed against Dublin last year and on the occasion I saw him there during the league he was destroyed there again in the Galway game. He doesnt have the pace nor the physical strength to make up for it. Id have Jackie following Lar and he needs to use possession quicker.

Agree on Taggy and that's why I'd put him 14 on my team.On Kelly,maybe he is out if his league but surely he'd offer more than what we saw last Sunday?? It's all grand having skill and a physical presence but it's not much use if your marker is leaving you in his dust for every ball because you can't keep up. And that applies to Jackie as well.I thought he looked laboured and seemed to tire seriously in the last 10.
Fogarty seems to have come on a lot IMO, and looked well able pace/strength wise in midfield last day (where a lot more running is required than at 4.)

Tipp didn't play much high balls in Sunday and the reason they didn't is because they knew they would make hay with measured ball into seamus and bubbles.And made hay they did.the centre channel and the left corner was the 2 main areas they got the run on us.
That's why I think pace is vital for the 27th to counter the runs,at both ends.And Brian,JJ and Jackie will be targeted again.you can bet your bottom dollar on that.