Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

blackwave

dirkmeister wrote: »

I don't think that Cody will be making wholesale changes.

Here's the team that I THINK will start.

Murphy
P Murphy
JJ
Jackie
P Walsh
B Hogan
Buckley
R Hogan
C Fogarty
C Fennelly
M Fennelly
E Larkin
R Power
TJ Reid
A Fogarty

I think the key is that we don't panic, a small thing will shade it for Kilkenny. Tipp had a lot of goal chances but so had we. We really need to keep it tight at the back and stop the stupid f£$king mistakes, in the second half especially there was some really uncharacteristic stuff like Buckleys fumble.

Kilkenny showed great resilience to come from 6 points down to be in a winning position, that's what makes the last 5 minutes so frustrating.
I think we have every chance.

That's probably the team I would go with as well, I know there is a case for Shefflin and Joyce, but I think this is our strongest 15. With Shefflin, I think th should be introduced with about 20 minutes to go, where the tired legs of the backs will suit him better. If we start him I am afraid that if he was to go off it would give Tipp fans and players a lift. With Joyce, I have no doubt over his abilities but my only problem with him is his pace, he was one of the few players last years that actually played well and was probably our only player that was close to an all-star but I think the pace of this game will not suit him.

Fort Stranger

I think with the whole Henry quandary it would have been a sickener if we had lost on Sunday and Henry had only had a few minutes, you would always ask yourself what if he had been brought on earlier. I think if he doesn't start him the next day we will never know what impact he could have. I wonder is it because if Henry is on, he feels that Reid, power and Hogan won't lead, the way they have been. I said at the beginning of the year on here that if you have those three fit, we are very hard to beat and we get big scores. I just feel that when Henry is on they go back in to their shell a bit. Having said that I would start Henry full forward and there is a few goals in him still. I expect a big game from the fennellys next day as well, Colin is due a few breaks?

Charlie69

dastardly00 wrote: »

I totally agree with Jackie staying at corner back, and not moving Conor Fogarty in there instead.

Speaking of Conor Fogarty, playing him in midfield has been a big surprise for me. I think he's done really really well, considering that he's not that fast, strong or skillful. He isn't that accurate at shooting either.
And he's never stood out when playing corner back.

Anyone care to explain Conor's success in the midfield position?

He,s not really playing in an orthodox midfield role though, he's playing in a defensive mf role between the half backs and midfield which seems to suit him down to the ground.

While he definitely lacks pace, he gets through a mountain of work is a fine hurler and believe me is as strong as an ox.

i wondered in a previous post if this role would suit Tommy Walsh, excellent under high ball, could sweep up between mf and hb lines without having to worry too much about his direct opponent, and would take a couple of scores when the chance arose.

babyjesus14

I really cannot be having Henry and Tommy starting the next day. Time has caught with Henry he just wouldn't be able to live with the pace and the intensity we saw last Sunday. Tommy's form has vanished completely, the fact that he hasn't received a minutes action since he was replaced in the replay against Galway is a fair indicator that he hasn't rediscovered it since.

mercury16

1. E. Murphy

2. P Murphy; 3. JJ Delaney; 4. J Tyrell

5. P. Walsh/C Fogarty; 6. B Hogan/ K Joyce; 7. C Buckley

8. M Fennelly; 9. C Fogarty/P Walsh

10. R Hogan; 11. H Shefflin/Taggy; 12. TJ Reid

13. R Power; 14. E Larkin; 15. C Fennelly


Firstly, I assume that there are certain players that are just not in the running and then those that we think are good and are on the bench and are also not in the running. A lot depends on how they are performing in training, and as that is behind closed doors we do not know. You have to wonder how Joyce, Tommy, Brian Kennedy, Taggy, John Power, Walter and Henry are going in training...at an intercounty standard?

Henry can only play centre or full forward...I’d start him at centre forward and let him get into it... at the very least, the way he drifts out to open space he’ll drag the centre back out of position, and also it’s probably the best position to get him into the game. He knows where to stand and links up well to receive the open pass.
If Henry’s not on, then I’d start Taggy at centre forward, this would drag the centre back all over the place as well.

At centre back it’s a toss up between Joyce and Brian Hogan, but you wouldn’t know how well Joyce is playing in training and what is ability to get around the space at this level is..

Only other change is P Walsh on the field, and Holden on the bench. That leaves a decision on who goes wing back and who goes midfield – Fogarty or Walsh. Fogarty has been very dynamic this year and is quite defensive, and Walsh has mainly played either in the middle or the forwards, and putting him into the backs now, how will that work?

mercury16

Match Ups:
Murphy marks Bonnar Maher
Jackie marks Lar Corbett
Fogarty/P Walsh marks Bubbles O’Dwyer
Buckley marks N McGrath
JJ Delaney marks Callanan
Joyce marks G Ryan/ E Kelly


Alternatively you could go;

Murphy marks Bonnar
Jackie on Lar
Everyone else holds their position.

clashoftheash

You know what the best move of the match was last Sunday? Kilkenny not complaining about the free given against Brian Hogan. Imagine if that free had been moved up? Tipp would have been All Ireland Champions. A credit to Kilkenny's discipline.

Realt Dearg Sec

clashoftheash wrote: »

You know what the best move of the match was last Sunday? Kilkenny not complaining about the free given against Brian Hogan. Imagine if that free had been moved up? Tipp would have been All Ireland Champions. A credit to Kilkenny's discipline.

Interesting point. Brian Hogan had a look on his face that said he had given up trying to make sense of Barry Kelly's decision making. In fact he seemed fairly bewildered by Kelly all day.

(For the record I didn't think Kelly was THAT bad, but the idea that he was GOOD, which many media outlets have sought to argue, is equally mind-boggling. Made some terrible key decisions against us)

peabutler

I've seen one or two people leave Eoin Larkin out of their teams for the replay. Kilkenny made/got 32 hooks/blocks in the last day, 6 of these were by Larkin, he also scored 2 points. That is all really.

longshotvalue

peabutler wrote: »

I've seen one or two people leave Eoin Larkin out of their teams for the replay. Kilkenny made/got 32 hooks/blocks in the last day, 6 of these were by Larkin, he also scored 2 points. That is all really.

As good as he seemed in the first few minutes, he isnt really much of a scoring treat anymore,and in my view Henry is at least as agressive in terms of tackling and blocking but will be more of a scoring treat.. He seems to have his place nailed down, which isnt really deserved 100%..

Charlie69

I've never gone along with the Barry Kelly hates Kilkenny theory and its my belief that if Kilkenny as it is often alleged "play on the edge", then Barry Kelly's fussy style of refereeing was never going to be compatible with our style of play.

I've always thought he was pretty consistent though, and that our players should know his form and although its almost impossible to change your style for a referee , that they should at least know that certain things another ref would let go would be punished by Kelly.

But now it seems Barry has changed his style completely, possibly in an effort to let the game flow a bit more, which imo has left players and fans alike completely baffled.

At least when he blew for everything, everyone knew where they stood, but my biggest issue with him is his lack of consistency when allowing the advantage to a player that has been fouled.

I have no problem with an advantage rule as long as there is an obvious advantage to the player in possession, but Kelly imo very often allows an advantage to a player that's completely bottled up or on the other hand stops play for a free when an advantage given would've been far more beneficial.

BQQ

peabutler wrote: »

I've seen one or two people leave Eoin Larkin out of their teams for the replay. Kilkenny made/got 32 hooks/blocks in the last day, 6 of these were by Larkin, he also scored 2 points. That is all really.

Yeah, watched the game again just now and Larkin was very good.
Aside from the above, he could have earned a penalty and a couple of scoring frees on another day.

Also, talk of dropping Brian Hogan is madness.
People are saying Bonner Maher was destroying him, but Bonner was marked by Paul Murphy for a good portion of the match and Murphy did very well on him despite letting him through for the shot Eoin Murphy tipped over.
Hogan was on him for the goal, but from my vantage point on Hill 16 he was blatantly pushed as the ball was dropping. I don't blame Barry Kelly for missing it - it would be hard to spot unless you were behind them.
Anyway, he cleared a lot of ball and played well in my opinion.

In any case, we have no replacement there anyway. Lester and Jackie were tried there but didn't work out and Joyce is Slower than Hogan.

Michael Fennelly played much better when he went midfield and must start there in the replay. I would leave out Connor Fogarty. He's done a good job there, but we have a lot of options there and most have more upside in that they would pop over a couple of points if the chances presented themselves.

Not sure Taggy is the answer up front. He did very little in his 20 minutes.
Barret is too fast for any of our forwards. I think we need the guile of a Shefflin to expose his inexperience.

trg

Barrett saw off Henry in the league final, albeit the pressure of All Ireland might have an effect but didn't look to be the case on Sunday.

Hitchens

Bonnard Maher injured in training?

Knee injury being reported, not known how serious yet.

dirkmeister

Hitchens wrote: »

Bonnard Maher injured in training?

Knee injury being reported, not known how serious yet.

Where is this beig reported? Can't see it anywhere at the moment.

KK4life

dirkmeister wrote: »

Where is this beig reported? Can't see it anywhere at the moment.

It was in the examiner this morning I think, or at least on their website

allthedoyles

Mark Kelly @ No 14 ..................goals win games

KK4life

allthedoyles wrote: »

Mark Kelly @ No 14 ..................goals win games

And out of 3 championship matches he has scored 2 goals (no points). Both were scored in the second half v Offaly when the game was essentially over. I'm afraid he is not at the level required. He needs to toughen up and improve his reading of the game

ellinguistico

Definitely coming around to the idea of starting Shefflin in part 2. Only in one position however, Full Forward. I think the two Tipp corner backs are too nippy for him to be placed there. He would be surely capable of winning some ball and off loading to an incoming Cloin/Richie or TJ? His distribution alone should be factored into the decision and he has the strength to ward off whoever they would put on him. The lack of mobility in the half forward line the last day was one of the big issues for me, no pace, no ability to break a tackle and travel a bit. Not sure what the answer is there, it's not Mick Fennelly anyway that's for sure and I really hope he doesn't use Padraig Walsh there as I think we need him at 5. I'd imagine he will be bursting to get going having missed most of the first match and hopefully has a big game, i think he will.

Some articles suggesting Tommy should play but I think we know that's unrealistic with BC in charge. He doesn't do sentiment and backtracking. Where would you put him anyway? Midfield or half forward? Extremely worried about JT too, himself and Buckley possibly need to get more in sync with each other for helping each other out. I really hope it buckets down on the day and is a slower affair, JT and BH need serious cover, although P Walsh would bolster that a bit.

ellinguistico

dirkmeister wrote: »

Where is this beig reported? Can't see it anywhere at the moment.

Was nothing approaching serious from a few sources I've read.

Miall108

I was reading Michael Duignans comments in the Independent today and I think Id agree with him on starting Henry and Tommy Walsh. Its a big day and neither player would let us down thats for sure plus. Henry should be stuck in Full Forward and has that unique ability to bring other players into the game plus is guaranteed to knock over a few scores of his own. Have no doubt about it, Henry can still influence a game for us.

Tommy is the same, hes a big game player, hes only 31 remember and hes not just going to go out there and fold on the big day. That is not Tommy Walsh, just remember that he changed the game for us against Galway in the drawn game when he came on, his distribution was absolutely top class and he set up a goal for Larks or Colin Fennelly as far as I can remember with a beautiful cross field ball and the game was still very much in the balance although we did take our foot off it when we got a bit ahead. I certainly have no problems with Tommy starting in his old position, be it Tommy or Padraig, I agree with Duignan that such is the quality of the Tipp forwards that they are guaranteed to knock over a few scores especially those around the half forward line. Without a doubt Tommy has much more hurling in him than Joey Holden who according to Duignan is a man marker which I agree with. Tommys natural hurling ability and brain could be crucial in that area plus he would be much better in the air if hes facing the goal, I know he did struggle against Tannian in the replay but as a half back on the grandest stage of all, who can bet against Tommy Walsh to produce it again. That being said, if his brother was to start there thats not bad either but the idea of Tommy starting the replay in his old position is starting to grow on me. Its unlikely I know especially as rumours of a row between Cody and Tommy were floating around earlier in the season

Grats

Well if there was a row between Cody and Tommy earlier in the year it affected Tommy's performances with his club also! I've watched him with Tullaroan and he just never got going in any of the three games I was at. If Tommy is struggling with his club then he will most definitely struggle with the county.

Henry I would most certainly start. I can only assume he's not fully fit if he can only get three minutes in a big game!

andyman

I reckon Tommy's gone. If he was still any use then Cody would give him 20 minutes off the bench.

People say he's only 31 but he's been hurling at such a high intense level since he was 19. You can use other players being older all ye want but Tommy's style is so high intense that it's catching up with him. Unfortunately for us but it seems to be the case.

ellinguistico

Good point. Some might say he's been going hard at it even 5 years earlier than that.

andyman wrote: »

I reckon Tommy's gone. If he was still any use then Cody would give him 20 minutes off the bench.

People say he's only 31 but he's been hurling at such a high intense level since he was 19. You can use other players being older all ye want but Tommy's style is so high intense that it's catching up with him. Unfortunately for us but it seems to be the case.

Fwank wizzo

andyman wrote: »

I reckon Tommy's gone. If he was still any use then Cody would give him 20 minutes off the bench.

People say he's only 31 but he's been hurling at such a high intense level since he was 19. You can use other players being older all ye want but Tommy's style is so high intense that it's catching up with him. Unfortunately for us but it seems to be the case.

100%
He's basically burnt out and it's a shame because if a fully firing Tommy was playing last Sunday I'd say he'd be on a pub crawl now along with the rest of them!
Hes still young enough tho,a good break is maybe what he needs.
As a matter of interest,is his wife from Tipperary?

unrealtime

If Fogarty does not fit the bill, then I would put Tommy in the full-back line instead of Jackie - though on the right side.

Justice for the individual

Fwank wizzo wrote: »

100%
He's basically burnt out and it's a shame because if a fully firing Tommy was playing last Sunday I'd say he'd be on a pub crawl now along with the rest of them!
Hes still young enough tho,a good break is maybe what he needs.
As a matter of interest,is his wife from Tipperary?

Muckalee?

randd1

Here's the possible side I reckon will start the replay:

E Murphy
P Murphy
JJ Delaney
J Tyrrell
J Holden/P Walsh
B Hogan
C Buckley
M Fennelly
C Fogarty/P Walsh
TJ Reid
R Hogan
C Fennelly
A Fogarty/M Kelly
R Power
E Larkin

I wouldn't change the backs. For all the talk about the backs coughing up goal chances, if you look at the shots Tipp had on goal, only Lar's one you could say was a clean strike under no pressure. The rest of the Tipp shots were hurried due to Kilkenny players getting the hurl in. Also, though we drew, this defensive lineup has yet to be beaten this year, so I wouldn't go making wholesale changes to the defense based on one game. The one place we could change in defense would be Padraig Walsh for Joey Holden, I think Walsh offers more under the dropping ball and with pace.

In midfield, I think it became very obvious that when Mick Fennelly went in there, we got more purchase out of him, and out of our midfield are overall, and it led to us taking over the game for a spell. I also thought that Conor Fogarty played well enough to warrant keeping his place in midfield (though I wonder would Kennedy, a similar type of player, would be better suited with his pace to close down Woodlock and McGrath?). I think with Fennelly in there, he's a more natural midfielder too than either Fogarty or Richie Hogan, and offers better cover to Brian Hogan as well, which we lacked the last day. If Padraig Walsh doesn't start wing-back, I could see him playing in midfield instead of Fogarty.

Up front I would start Richie Hogan at CF and let him run the show, or if needed, take a few points. Colin had a bad day the last day, but he's worth persevering with, while TJ is a no-brainer. In the FF line, I think its almost certain that Larkin and Power will be starting after the last day. I would drop Walter, a point apart he offered nothing the last day at all, very poor at getting stuck into the opposition for such a big man, takes too long to get up to speed to get away from his man and is poor enough in the air. for me its either got to be Taggy Fogarty or Mark Kelly for Walter in the corner, Kelly isn't great but he'll run and get in there on the Tipp backs (and with his pace, the Tipp backs will more likely pull him down than let him through as well), while Taggy will work his hands to the bone as usual.

Have to say looking back on the game, I would be worried for the next day based on the way both side played, Tipp were the better team for. Outside of Brendan Maher and Gearoid Ryan (who were quiet enough) all of Tipp's players, including subs, played out of their skins. If the same happens, we're not going to win.

In saying that, though Tipp were the better team, they still didn't win, and only for some shocking play by our backs in the last 5/6 minutes (where they were blocked down when a spare man was only a few yards away), they would probably have been beaten (but credit where credit is due, the workrate of Tipp to get back into it was phenomenal). Holden, Brian Hogan, Mick Fennelly and Colin Fennelly were poor enough at times, certainly well below their normal play this year. Richie Power was well held in open apart from three chances (which he took with aplomb). Walter was pretty anonymous. Paul Murphy and Jackie made some elemental mistakes they normally never would.

Tipp for me look in better shape for the replay. They look to have more lads in form than us, and they are playing better as a unit. Have to say though, Tipp played out of their skins the last day, whereas we didn't, a good few of our lads didn't turn up and were carried. Tipp hurling at their very best still couldn't beat us and IF all of our lads turn up we could well do it with a bit to spare.

For me, I'd rather be going into a game with lads in form than not. I think that gives Tipp the advantage, and as much as it pains me, I don't see where the improvement is going to come from to win us the game, as the performance the last day won't be good enough for the next day (assuming Tipp are going to play as good). Horrified saying this, but going on form, I think Tipp will win the replay.

dirkmeister

Intermediate championship results:

Graigue ballycallan 0-18 glenmore 2-6
Tullogher 2-14 freshford 1-13
Dunnamaggin 2-16 conahy 0-15

League shield
Lisdowney 1-17
Thomastown 2-11

League final
Mullinavat 2-16
St Patricks 0-18

Hitchens

randd1 wrote: »

I think Tipp will win the replay.

I think they may well have left it behind