Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

timogen

merryberry wrote: »

To many complaints about referee decisions which is nonsense really. There were a few questionable decisions like the 2nd penalty but Kilkenny have little to complain about overall.

I felt there was only four big calls in the game. The two penalties B. Kelly left the umpires make the decisions on them the free at the end of the game an argument can be made for both sides to have claims to a free and doesn't bother me that tipp got it.
The only other was what I consider to be the only dirty stroke in the game was the pull on R.Powers faceguard considering it's a red card offence, the only one in the game and B.Kelly doesn't consult his linesman he was a good distance away from the foul himself.
So on the two match changing decision he made on his own. Barry Kelly may have blown the whistle but let himself down on the R.Power incident when he didn't consult the linesman.
Now the linesman would have said he didn't see it but at least B.Kelly would have done his job.

dastardly00

ellinguistico wrote: »

The Barry Kelly stuff is embarrassing lads. Don't let it be fuel for other people and more importantly don't let yourselves down. Also, it's very hard to fully give credence to a poster saying that much about Kelly who's first language isn't English. I welcome you to our country but how many games have you seen since living here?

As per the team, no point in going over what has been said. I'm not sure Michael Fennelly "is there" anymore in all senses. Tried hard at times but completely immobile. I've watched the game live and recorded twice and I don't understand how people say he came into it that much. Superman in his very brief stint a few years back but not sure if he's up for this pace. Joey Holden was probably the most anonymous man on the pitch and was beaten in most tussles, but he has loads of time.........but not if we genuinely want to win the 2014 All Ireland Hurling title.

Is Colin Fennelly a forward? He's lauded for his work rate and got some incredible scores in the league there and carried the team but his touch and decision making in the latter 3rd of the field is poor. Don't know where I stand on Shefflin coming in but he can make the right the right decisions and make flicks that nobody is expecting to bring other people in. The movement from our forwards compared to Tipp's was 30% slower in speed of limb and thought (bar TJ, Richie Power and Richie Hogan when he went in there).

Brian Hogan, magnificent servant but if he starts the next day that then that confirms that we are accepting defeat. Tried his arse off but waaay to slow for that Tipperary team. Who do you put in there instead? Too much of an ask for Kieran Joyce? Probably. That spot has come back to ask questions again even though I thought Hogan did relatively OK up till now.......but the loosely pasted wallpaper of the semi and final (1) is coming off. Massive decision to make there. But.....it is 6 and it's crucial.

Jackie might just squeeze another 60/70 mins I'd say but it's a huge gamble. This needs to be the biggest patch job in recent years. JJ looks like he has another year in him but probably won't. The epic nature of this game and everything that has gone with it (even before the replay) I think will fast forward a lot of lads exits. JJ, Jackie, B Hogan, Tommy, Henry, Larkin won't be around next year.

We are creaking, we knew that. How all the above have got us to here is beyond most sane peoples wildest dreams after the seemingly natural end in Thurles last year. We owe them more than the National debt. How will we win on the 27th? Am I being too harsh on some of them?

I agree with what you are saying about Brian Hogan. But we actually have nobody else to take his place. Absolutely nobody. If Hogan actually got injured I don't know who you could put in there. Brian Hogan, even though his legs are fairly gone, is still quicker than Joyce. I would like to see Padraig Walsh back in at 5. I think that change would paper over some of the cracks.

EIRE1922

Grats wrote: »

Absolutely spot on. We accept that our overall performance was below par yesterday. We accept that Tipp played some brilliant hurling. But we're also entitled to refer to the refs performance. Particularly so since we anticipated what Kelly was going to do. Some posters would have preferred that we said nothing about Kelly beforehand and now they want us to ignore his deplorable conduct yesterday.

He gave a free to Richie Power yesterday when Stapleton pulled his face guard yet he never booked the culprit - a definite red card incident.

Grats. Well said. You hit the nail on the head!

Hitchens

Brian Hogan could be MOTM in the replay!

EIRE1922

merryberry wrote: »

So I take it you have no concerns with the standard of refereeing then...

I suggest you go read what I put up earlier!

citykat

dastardly00 wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying about Brian Hogan. But we actually have nobody else to take his place. Absolutely nobody. If Hogan actually got injured I don't know who you could put in there. Brian Hogan, even though his legs are fairly gone, is still quicker than Joyce. I would like to see Padraig Walsh back in at 5. I think that change would paper over some of the cracks.

+1. Hogan was a disaster 1st half. He did recover and played better 2nd half. I wouldn't put Joyce in now. The few appearances he made this year he made some howlers. I'd persist with Hogan for replay. The only alternative IMO is Mick Fennelly's. Bit left field but he's a better alternative than Joyce.

Hidalgo

savannahkat wrote: »

A load of old bull shy#e. Even with Barry Kelly giving them everything going, penalties that did not exist frees that never were your precious Tipp still could not beat Kilkenny and they wont come within ten points of Kilkenny in the replay. With out the Refs help Tipp would have been beaten out of sight yesterday.

A 10 pt win minimum for kk so is it?
You're pediction for Sunday was slightly off so I mightnt throw the weeks wages on this ingenious ptediction of yours.

TurnOfPace

1st Post - Kilkenny Fan

Was at the match yesterday and am currently watching it again having recorded it. Firstly let me say it was an excellent contest throughout with all players contributing to a fantastic occasion. From my time going to matches in throughout the country this was one of the best ever and I don't say that lightly. It had everything you could ask for in terms of skill, intensity and drama.

The tipp lads gave everything and proved their win over cork was no fluke. Any supporter from Kilkenny would have been stupid not to give them the credit and respect they derserve.

From a Kilkenny point of view and this is why I'm here I thought certain players looked a tad jaded throughout the game and others more than made up for it. Below I'll give my ratings on the Kilkenny lads

1.Eoin Murphy - 9
2.Paul Murphy - 9
3.JJ Delaney - 8
4.Jackie Tyrell - 6
5.Joey Holden - 5
6.Brian Hogan - 6
7.Cillian Buckley - 8
8.Richie Hogan - 10
9.Conor Fogarty - 6.5
10.Michael Fennelly - 6.5
11.Colin Fennelly - 6
12.TJ Reid - 10
13.Eoin Larkin - 7
14.Richie Power - 10
15.Walter Walsh - 5

I'm not going to delve too much into the referee's performance and having read what's being said here there's little more can be said. Its over now and can't be changed. Hopefully he's not in charge of ANY meaningful contest again

C'MON THE CATS

merryberry

timogen wrote: »

I felt there was only four big calls in the game. The two penalties B. Kelly left the umpires make the decisions on them the free at the end of the game an argument can be made for both sides to have claims to a free and doesn't bother me that tipp got it.
The only other was what I consider to be the only dirty stroke in the game was the pull on R.Powers faceguard considering it's a red card offence, the only one in the game and B.Kelly doesn't consult his linesman he was a good distance away from the foul himself.
So on the two match changing decision he made on his own. Barry Kelly may have blown the whistle but let himself down on the R.Power incident when he didn't consult the linesman.
Now the linesman would have said he didn't see it but at least B.Kelly would have done his job.

I agree with two of the above. The second peno wasn't a penalty. Lar was tackled and brought down outside the area. The free at the end could easily have been kilkenny free in or just wave play on. The 1st peno...well the question is where did the free take place. first contact was outside the square but without over carrying, bonnar was pulled down inside the box. The richie power helmet incident...the rules state a caution in first instance. Perhaps the Tipp back would have seen red if he pulled the helmet off powers head

Hitchens

merryberry wrote: »

I agree with two of the above. The second peno wasn't a penalty. Lar was tackled and brought down outside the area. The free at the end could easily have been kilkenny free in or just wave play on. The 1st peno...well the question is where did the free take place. first contact was outside the square but without over carrying, bonnar was pulled down inside the box. The richie power helmet incident...the rules state a caution in first instance. Perhaps the Tipp back would have seen red if he pulled the helmet off powers head

that's what should have happened IMO

citykat

TurnOfPace wrote: »

1st Post - Kilkenny Fan

Was at the match yesterday and am currently watching it again having recorded it. Firstly let me say it was an excellent contest throughout with all players contributing to a fantastic occasion. From my time going to matches in throughout the country this was one of the best ever and I don't say that lightly. It had everything you could ask for in terms of skill, intensity and drama.

The tipp lads gave everything and proved their win over cork was no fluke. Any supporter from Kilkenny would have been stupid not to give them the credit and respect they derserve.

From a Kilkenny point of view and this is why I'm here I thought certain players looked a tad jaded throughout the game and others more than made up for it. Below I'll give my ratings on the Kilkenny lads

1.Eoin Murphy - 9
2.Paul Murphy - 9
3.JJ Delaney - 8
4.Jackie Tyrell - 6
5.Joey Holden - 5
6.Brian Hogan - 6
7.Cillian Buckley - 8
8.Richie Hogan - 10
9.Conor Fogarty - 6.5
10.Michael Fennelly - 6.5
11.Colin Fennelly - 6
12.TJ Reid - 10
13.Eoin Larkin - 7
14.Richie Power - 10
15.Walter Walsh - 5

I'm not going to delve too much into the referee's performance and having read what's being said here there's little more can be said. Its over now and can't be changed. Hopefully he's not in charge of ANY meaningful contest again

C'MON THE CATS

IMO Buckley was 9-10. Best game for KK yet. 2 Fennelly's were 5. Larks 6. Good first half but anonymous second. Mick Fennelly doesn't look fit to me. Colin apparently picked up an injury. Tackles took their toll on Larks.

savannahkat

dastardly00 wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying about Brian Hogan. But we actually have nobody else to take his place. Absolutely nobody. If Hogan actually got injured I don't know who you could put in there. Brian Hogan, even though his legs are fairly gone, is still quicker than Joyce. I would like to see Padraig Walsh back in at 5. I think that change would paper over some of the cracks.

If Brian Hogan is not to be center back and I believe he should be but of not there is only one man to take his place and that is Cillian Buckley. Buckley wont let you down at center back he is fast, great in the air and is built like a brick sh*t house.
Tommy Walsh, Cillian Buckley and Padraigh Walsh if Hogan is dropped

Grats

citykat wrote: »

+1. Hogan was a disaster 1st half. He did recover and played better 2nd half. I wouldn't put Joyce in now. The few appearances he made this year he made some howlers. I'd persist with Hogan for replay. The only alternative IMO is Mick Fennelly's. Bit left field but he's a better alternative than Joyce.

I was surprised that the media hadn't picked up on the matter of Brian Hogan not turning out for last Tuesdays training session. It was rumoured that he had a back problem and might not start on Sunday. How it didn't get into the media is surprising. In Croke Park yesterday about an hour before throw in it was doing the rounds in the Cusack Stand that he was out. Perhaps he wasn't 100% and we may expect a better performance from him in the replay.

citykat

merryberry wrote: »

The free at the end could easily have been kilkenny free in or just wave play on.

Perhaps the Tipp back would have seen red if he pulled the helmet off powers head

Shane McGrath did the exact same thing in the 4th min and got a free out!

Podge Collins got a red for far less earlier in the season.

citykat

savannahkat wrote: »

If Brian Hogan is not to be center back and I believe he should be but of not there is only one man to take his place and that is Cillian Buckley. Buckley wont let you down at center back he is fast, great in the air and is built like a brick sh*t house.
Tommy Walsh, Cillian Buckley and Padraigh Walsh if Hogan is dropped

In fairness to Cody he shuffled the deck for the GY replay. Who's to say he won't do it again?

EIRE1922

citykat wrote: »

Shane McGrath did the exact same thing in the 4th min and got a free out!

Podge Collins got a red for far less earlier in the season.

Same in the League Final and Galway match this year. No santion either to the Galway or Tipperary man.

realdanbreen

Hitchens wrote: »

Brian Hogan could be MOTM in the replay!

Its bizzare really, we are heading into October and Kilkenny still don't know their best 15 to put out!

citykat

Grats wrote: »

I was surprised that the media hadn't picked up on the matter of Brian Hogan not turning out for last Tuesdays training session. It was rumoured that he had a back problem and might not start on Sunday. How it didn't get into the media is surprising. In Croke Park yesterday about an hour before throw in it was doing the rounds in the Cusack Stand that he was out. Perhaps he wasn't 100% and we may expect a better performance from him in the replay.

He caught nothing yesterday. That's very unlike Hogan. In fairness to him he came into it in the second half. If Hogan was injured though he surely wouldn't have been left on for the entire game; he surely wouldn't have lasted anyway. Mick Fennelly though doesn't look right to me.

Grats

What a win by the minors against Limerick. I heard and read comments about Limerick been the best team ever! Well where does that leave this Kilkenny minor team now? What a brilliant documentary it would make showing how this Kilkenny team progressed after a dreadful opening game in the Leinster championship. Much was written about the Limerick management team and how professional they were - and I'm sure it is all true but it says a lot for our management team that they got such a performance from their players on the biggest stage of all. And all carried out in the usual Kilkenny low key manner.

Congratulations and well done to all.

EIRE1922

realdanbreen wrote: »

Its bizzare really, we are heading into October and Kilkenny still don't know their best 15 to put out!

Sure Cody can pick any of his panel he chooses and still beat Tipperary. :P

Grats

citykat wrote: »

He caught nothing yesterday. That's very unlike Hogan. In fairness to him he came into it in the second half. If Hogan was injured though he surely wouldn't have been left on for the entire game; he surely wouldn't have lasted anyway. Mick Fennelly though doesn't look right to me.

I would hope that we weren't gambling yet again with Hogan but something was amiss. M Fennelly performed better at midfield where he had the open space. But I do agree that he wasn't right.

EIRE1922

Grats wrote: »

What a win by the minors against Limerick. I heard and read comments about Limerick been the best team ever! Well where does that leave this Kilkenny minor team now? What a brilliant documentary it would make showing how this Kilkenny team progressed after a dreadful opening game in the Leinster championship. Much was written about the Limerick management team and how professional they were - and I'm sure it is all true but it says a lot for our management team that they got such a performance from their players on the biggest stage of all. And all carried out in the usual Kilkenny low key manner.

Congratulations and well done to all.

I fancied Kilkenny to win it and knew Kilkenny were not as bad or as under-rated as they were made out to be against Limerick. With St. Kieran's and the C.B.S., the two teams in the Colleges Final, the minor panel had to be more than half decent. To come back and beat Dublin well in the Leinster Final after a hammering by them in the first round. Beat a decent Waterford team in the Semi-Final and then beat an unbackable Limerick team in the Final. Fantastic!

TurnOfPace

citykat wrote: »

+1. Hogan was a disaster 1st half. He did recover and played better 2nd half. I wouldn't put Joyce in now. The few appearances he made this year he made some howlers. I'd persist with Hogan for replay. The only alternative IMO is Mick Fennelly's. Bit left field but he's a better alternative than Joyce.

The natural centre back replacement is Buckley. Im not saying for the next day now mind but yeah the centre back position is going to need some work in next years walsh cup/league campaign. Personally Mick Fennelly hasn't the hurling for centre back, I would like to see him in centre field the next day though

Grats

realdanbreen wrote: »

Its bizzare really, we are heading into October and Kilkenny still don't know their best 15 to put out!

It's that kind of bizarre year really! Tipp ridiculed by their own fans and written off by them. Their supporters abandoning them in droves. And here they are in the Final. Bizarre indeed.

Kkboy

Michael Fennelly scored a good point yesterday and also sent in a quality ball for Richie Powers goal. Id start him in midfield with Conor Fogarty for the next day. In the forwards id go with Padraig Walsh, Colin Fennelly, TJ Reid, Richie Hogan, Richie Power and Eoin Larkin.

Two disappointing aspects of yesterdays game, was the ease which Tipp backs cleared ball and the number of times Kilkenny backs where hooked and blocked or mis**** clearances. Its an area where Tommy Walsh is seriously missed.

TurnOfPace

Any word on Richie Hogan lads?

realdanbreen

Grats wrote: »

It's that kind of bizarre year really! Tipp ridiculed by their own fans and written off by them. Their supporters abandoning them in droves. And here they are in the Final. Bizarre indeed.

I agree with you, It sure is.

merryberry

EIRE1922 wrote: »

With a surname like Kelly he clearly has Tipperary roots. I think he should retire. He was a joke and an utter disgrace yesterday! Even the Tipperary fans could not believe their luck yesterday with all the decisions he gave them.

Two penalties that were never penos.

Eoin Larkin free against for diving? Why would he dive. It is not like in soccer diving to get a peno or free. He wanted to score.

Eoin Larkin rugby tackled to the ground. No free.

Richie Power hit a slap by Darren Glesson during his first goal. No sanction.

Richie Power brought down in the Tipp square and no penalty for Kilkenny in the second half.

Richie Power has his helmet pulled off him. No red card given to Tipperary.

Brian Hogan is clearly fouled (shoulder into his chest) near the end of the match going for a winning point and he awards a free to Tipperary who thankfully missed it.

He gave Tipperary every 50/50 decision.

That umpire at the Canal end was a joke!

Two penalties that were never penos.
The first – correct decision. Player fouled inside the box is a penalty in my book
The second – this was not a penalty. Lar was tackled and fouled outside the area. This should have been a 21

Eoin Larkin free against for diving? Why would he dive. It is not like in soccer diving to get a peno or free. He wanted to score.
This was a free out to Tipperary. Larkin was trying to gain an advantage by mimicking foul play on him.

Eoin Larkin rugby tackled to the ground. No free.
This should have been a free in to Kilkenny. Referee got this wrong.

Richie Power hit a slap by Darren Glesson during his first goal. No sanction.
Absolutely nothing in that. Same could be said about Murphy challenge on Callahan (tipp goal chance in the 2nd half). Referee correct not to caution either goalies.

Richie Power brought down in the Tipp square and no penalty for Kilkenny in the second half.
I don’t know what you are referring to here? Not Gleeson/ Larkin collision.

Richie Power has his helmet pulled off him. No red card given to Tipperary.
Rules state that this warrants a caution in the 1st instance. If the helmet was pulled off him Stapleton probably would have seen red.

Brian Hogan is clearly fouled (shoulder into his chest) near the end of the match going for a winning point and he awards a free to Tipperary who thankfully missed it.
I think it was the other around...Hogan shouldered Maher in the chest and perhaps that why the Kelly called the free was given in Tipps favour???. Hogan had taken his 4 steps before the Maher tackle and he knew that if he tapped it on his hurl he would have lost it so he charged Maher. That’s the only reason why I could see a free for Tipp. It was a bizarre decision. I don’t think Hogan dived as inferred by the commentators in their interpretation but this could easily have gone Kilkennys way or a wave for play on and it was by far the biggest call of the day.

He gave Tipperary every 50/50 decision.
As I said a few questionable refereeing decisions but not as bad as your making it out to be

Grats

Kkboy wrote: »

Michael Fennelly scored a good point yesterday and also sent in a quality ball for Richie Powers goal. Id start him in midfield with Conor Fogarty for the next day. In the forwards id go with Padraig Walsh, Colin Fennelly, TJ Reid, Richie Hogan, Richie Power and Eoin Larkin.

Two disappointing aspects of yesterdays game, was the ease which Tipp backs cleared ball and the number of times Kilkenny backs where hooked and blocked or mis**** clearances. Its an area where Tommy Walsh is seriously missed.

You're sticking with the same backs then? Our handling generally was poor yesterday and the amount of times a Kilkenny player dropped his hurl was unbelievable. In fact two points came from this as they couldn't get the block in.

citykat

TurnOfPace wrote: »

Any word on Richie Hogan lads?

I'd say it was just cramp. He was stretching the calf on 60 mins. Normally indicative of cramp. He'll be over it in a few days.