Coming out or not when I'm visiting apartments

LegacyUser

Honestly, I don't understand why you needed to send a text message so early on telling them about your sexual orientation. Not to be crude, but it was a little OTT. It's none of their business.

As you're new in Ireland, I would inform you, for future reference, that talking about sex of any kind, or personal issues in general, with people you've just met is quite taboo (unless when intoxicated, under the guise of anonymity or privileged enough to be an upper-class bohemian). Not to be patronising or to put you off. I wish Irish people weren't so shy or secretive, but they are.

Sometimes when personal issues are brought up, especially sexual ones, regardless of what orientation is involved, it can dampen down the mood a bit. I wouldn't tell people that I was gay so straight up (no pun intended) without at least becoming good friends with them beforehand; it's too personal.

Besides, sexual orientation is a rather small element of one's identity and persuasions; it's only society that blows these issues out of proportion. That's why it's important to get to know a person and let them become aware of other traits of your character first.

Of course, I'm not implying that the alleged homophobia from those prospective roommates was right. However, in some cases, I know that discrimination based on gender grounds is quite common, unchallenged and rather accepted (regardless of how morally or ethically wrong it may be), e.g., there are many rent advertisements looking for "females only" or "men only".

I fail to see why advertisements looking for "straight men only", "gay/bi men only", "straight women only" or "gay/bi women only", etc., should be regarded as any more or less discriminatory, unchallenged or acceptable than the aforementioned.

Perhaps there are practical reasons for this or merely personal preference? Is it really homophobia, heterophobia, misogyny or misandry?

If I post an advertisement on a dating agency's website saying that I would prefer to meet bears to twinks, brunettes to blonds and tall men to short men, am I really being any less discriminatory?

(BTW, in the event that anyone accuses me of homophobia, I'd inform them beforehand that I am also gay and these are my opinions, which I assure you are not approached from a point of ignorance.)

oisindoyle

tunedout wrote: »

I just wonder about the case of a guy who is shy and nervous around girls.

Is it discrimination if he chooses his flatmates to be males only.

Although, his shyness and nervousness could be treated as irrational as there is nothing to suggest a girl would cause him any harm I wouldn't label him as being femaphobic and discriminant and all that , rather I'd let the guy be comfortable in his own living space and appreciate his wishes.

Whatever way you want to dress it up ,it still comes down to the fact that you are homophobic ,have a silly ignorant attitude towards gay PEOPLE.

The OP asked for opinions he got various.The thread seemed done and dusted until you came back and tried to "justify" your opinion of gay guys,it ain't working.

We all know where you stand ,so good night now and God bless.

I'm off to bed now to fantacize about you .......................NOT

floggg

tunedout wrote: »

Well I'm back after my ban sorry if I caused any offence to anyone. I guess to summarise my point:

I think people shouldn't be offended if people prefer to live with someone who are in the same category as them (even if those categories include sex, religion, age, sexuality etc). If it is considered discrimination to include these categories when choosing who to live with, then almost everyone in the entire country can be considered discriminatory.


Looking back at my posts I can see how they'd be misinterpreted especially where i used the word 'sick'. But what I meant was the thought of homosexual activity is not a pleasant thought for me.

And as an example one of the reasons I 'might' be uncomfortable with living with a homosexual person is , just to give an example, there is a thread on this very forum with the thread title "Turning a Straight Guy - Every gay man's fantasy?".

That could create a very uncomfortable an awkward situation if my housemate tried to 'turn' me. I am not saying this is a fantasy for every gay man. But the fact that it is a fantasy for 'some' is enough for me to not want to take the risk of this situation arising.

That is just one example of why I might not like to live with a homosexual person, and on that basis, I think it is better for all involved if homosexuality is disclosed before moving in with someone.

Those were the main points I was trying to get across. Sorry again if any offence caused.

tunedout wrote: »

I just wonder about the case of a guy who is shy and nervous around girls.

Is it discrimination if he chooses his flatmates to be males only.

Although, his shyness and nervousness could be treated as irrational as there is nothing to suggest a girl would cause him any harm I wouldn't label him as being femaphobic and discriminant and all that , rather I'd let the guy be comfortable in his own living space and appreciate his wishes.

Do you think gays are incapable of exercising self control? Given that "scoring birds" is one of your main hobbies, I'm sure you've tried plenty of times to chat up a girl who wasn't interested in you.

If so, I would hope that after she let you know she wasn't interested, you respectfully left her be.

Why do you not think a gay guy would do the same?

Being turned is only a risk if you think you might actually want to be turned on some level.

I don't throw this sort of thing around lightly, but to be honest I think the man doth protest too much here. You only seem to be able to focus on the sexual side of being gay, you're fear of being chatted up, you're nervousness around them. It's reminds of 10 things I hate about you - couple pretend to hate each other but are really head over heels in love.

floggg

AnAnonInput wrote: »

Honestly, I don't understand why you needed to send a text message so early on telling them about your sexual orientation. Not to be crude, but it was a little OTT. It's none of their business.

As you're new in Ireland, I would inform you, for future reference, that talking about sex of any kind, or personal issues in general, with people you've just met is quite taboo (unless when intoxicated, under the guise of anonymity or privileged enough to be an upper-class bohemian). Not to be patronising or to put you off. I wish Irish people weren't so shy or secretive, but they are.

Sometimes when personal issues are brought up, especially sexual ones, regardless of what orientation is involved, it can dampen down the mood a bit. I wouldn't tell people that I was gay so straight up (no pun intended) without at least becoming good friends with them beforehand; it's too personal.

Besides, sexual orientation is a rather small element of one's identity and persuasions; it's only society that blows these issues out of proportion. That's why it's important to get to know a person and let them become aware of other traits of your character first.

Of course, I'm not implying that the alleged homophobia from those prospective roommates was right. However, in some cases, I know that discrimination based on gender grounds is quite common, unchallenged and rather accepted (regardless of how morally or ethically wrong it may be), e.g., there are many rent advertisements looking for "females only" or "men only".

I fail to see why advertisements looking for "straight men only", "gay/bi men only", "straight women only" or "gay/bi women only", etc., should be regarded as any more or less discriminatory, unchallenged or acceptable than the aforementioned.

Perhaps there are practical reasons for this or merely personal preference? Is it really homophobia, heterophobia, misogyny or misandry?

If I post an advertisement on a dating agency's website saying that I would prefer to meet bears to twinks, brunettes to blonds and tall men to short men, am I really being any less discriminatory?

(BTW, in the event that anyone accuses me of homophobia, I'd inform them beforehand that I am also gay and these are my opinions, which I assure you are not approached from a point of ignorance.)

I hate this whole "it's nobody's business but you're own, be discrete about who you tell blah blah blah."

Yea, it's only one aspect of who you are, but why should you have to hide that aspect? They don't have a right to know, but you have a right to be who you are.

I was at a working meeting the other day, and it took me a full 10 minutes to learn the two people I was meeting were straight, just from stories they told about their other halves.

Why shouldn't we be able to be equally open? I'm not going to go around hiding aspects of my life or not being able to be as open as anybody else about their lives.

Hiding it suggests there is something to be ashamed of. There isn't.

greyed

Didn't read the entire thread, but that is unreal!

I was in this exact situation a few months ago. I decided the best approach to take was to causally state somewhere in the conversation that I'm gay during the viewing. I figure its the best time to do it, rather than waste my time living in a place I wasn't happy. I've had enough of that nervous sketchy bull**** in my teenage years.

I viewed a couple of places where there was a lot of competition, when I liked a place I would tell them and I never had any issues and never sensed any awkwardness, so I'm surprised to hear your story, sorry man That said, I can't say for sure that wasn't the reason I didnt get a particular place haha, but I doubt it

tunedout

floggg wrote: »

You only seem to be able to focus on the sexual side of being gay, you're fear of being chatted up, you're nervousness around them. It's reminds of 10 things I hate about you - couple pretend to hate each other but are really head over heels in love.

This would be another big worry about living with a gay. I've seen it mentioned a few times here, an expression of discomfort with the idea seems to lead gays to think that the person is actually gay. This is a big worry. It's a complete failure in terms of judge of character and could lead to a very awkward situation if the gay saw it as a reason to attempt to 'turn' a person. The most worrying part is a few people have mentioned it so it must be part of some common fantasy, that the straighter the person, or the more discomfortable the person is with homosexuality the more appealing they are to the gay.

tunedout

oisindoyle wrote: »

Whatever way you want to dress it up ,it still comes down to the fact that you are homophobic ,have a silly ignorant attitude towards gay PEOPLE.

The OP asked for opinions he got various.The thread seemed done and dusted until you came back and tried to "justify" your opinion of gay guys,it ain't working.

We all know where you stand ,so good night now and God bless.

I'm off to bed now to fantacize about you .......................NOT

Yes, and guys who are shy and nervous around girls have a 'silly ignorant' attitude towards female PEOPLE.

Do you agree? Probably not bias I guess.

People can be shy and nervous around things they're not comfortable with, or are mysterious to them. Thats normal. Not silly and ignorant

Vojera

tunedout wrote: »

This would be another big worry about living with a gay. I've seen it mentioned a few times here, an expression of discomfort with the idea seems to lead gays to think that the person is actually gay. This is a big worry. It's a complete failure in terms of judge of character and could lead to a very awkward situation if the gay saw it as a reason to attempt to 'turn' a person. The most worrying part is a few people have mentioned it so it must be part of some common fantasy, that the straighter the person, or the more discomfortable the person is with homosexuality the more appealing they are to the gay.

No one is going to try to turn you. There's nothing appealing to "the gay" about homophobes. Or do you think I watched Prime Time the other night and thought that the woman who kept referring to gay relationships as "friendships" was just the sort of sexy challenge I needed?

I don't understand why you felt the need to come back to this thread after your ban to spout the exact same non-arguments, but it smells of troll to me.

wonderfulname

tunedout wrote: »

This would be another big worry about living with a gay. I've seen it mentioned a few times here, an expression of discomfort with the idea seems to lead gays to think that the person is actually gay. This is a big worry. It's a complete failure in terms of judge of character and could lead to a very awkward situation if the gay saw it as a reason to attempt to 'turn' a person. The most worrying part is a few people have mentioned it so it must be part of some common fantasy, that the straighter the person, or the more discomfortable the person is with homosexuality the more appealing they are to the gay.

Hello again, I trust you have had a good look at that charter I pointed you towards in light of your previous ban, I'd like to point out that your discomfort and rather strange assumption that any gay man would find you remotely attractive for it are in your own head, do in fact constitute homophobia, and if you wish to discuss them further you should do so respectfully and open mindedly. Also, 'gay' is not a noun.

Perhaps you should be looking into why you feel as you do, rather than lambasting others for disagreeing. Please PM with any queries or issues you may have relating to appropriate conduct on this forum, I'd rather not have a repeat of your last visit.

Annasopra

tunedout wrote: »

This would be another big worry about living with a gay. I've seen it mentioned a few times here, an expression of discomfort with the idea seems to lead gays to think that the person is actually gay. This is a big worry. It's a complete failure in terms of judge of character and could lead to a very awkward situation if the gay saw it as a reason to attempt to 'turn' a person. The most worrying part is a few people have mentioned it so it must be part of some common fantasy, that the straighter the person, or the more discomfortable the person is with homosexuality the more appealing they are to the gay.

I'm not sure where to start

Firstly I think that you make some incredible assumption that all gay men are predatory on straight men and that we all have weird fantasies about turning homophobes - Do you know how incredibly stupid that sounds?

a; I don't as a gay man fancy all straight men,
b; I don't as a gay man try it on with all straight men,
c; I don't as a gay man act as a predator to all straight men,
d; I don't as a gay man have some weird fantasy about turning homophobes.

There are some gay men who do a and/or b and/or c and/or d

There are thousands like me who don't

I feel genuinely sorry for you if you can only live with other men who, like you practice heterosexuality as a hobby, as it seems to me that it gives you a very narrow view of the world

Secondly - just in terms of your language - I highlighted some of your post in bold above. I think you almost see gay people as some of separate species rather than as people - almost like we have gay stamped on our foreheads and we all think the same way, act the same way etc. I am not "a gay" or "the gay". I am a gay person or a gay man. I am a human.

oisindoyle

The more I read this thread (17pages!!!) the more I am coming to the conclusion that Tunedout is a troll

Awake&Unafraid

"A gay" "the gay" ... how lovely.

Tunedout, you seen to be overly concerned about being "turned". If you're really secure about your sexuality I don't understand how it could be a concern, or a factor in choosing a gay roommate.

Not all gay people (yes we are in fact people) run around trying to find straight men to "turn them gay". Anyone that has a massive concern with being "turned gay" though, can't really be as secure with their sexuality as they like to think they are.

Annasopra

Vojera wrote: »

I don't understand why you felt the need to come back to this thread after your ban to spout the exact same non-arguments, but it smells of troll to me.

oisindoyle wrote: »

The more I read this thread (17pages!!!) the more I am coming to the conclusion that Tunedout is a troll

Folks
Please do not accuse other users of trolling. If you feel that a post needs actioning by the moderation team then please report posts. This is very clearly stated in the charter.

paulmorro

Well it seems perfect example of homophobia. An honest fear of gay people for completely irrational means. For what it's worth, Tunedout, (not a lot I'm guessing) I have never once even though about turning a friend (not even a clue how that would go). I don't know a solitary person who has given serious thought to turning someone gay.

We're not giant sex bags who need to hump the nearest leg in sight. I'm able to survive a changing without fainting from the sight around, molesting half the people in there, or even bloody well thinking about it after.

Even if people think you're gay and compensating, that's hardly gonna come on to you when you're being so unfriendly toward them (refer to sex bag comment above)

floggg

tunedout wrote: »

This would be another big worry about living with a gay. I've seen it mentioned a few times here, an expression of discomfort with the idea seems to lead gays to think that the person is actually gay. This is a big worry. It's a complete failure in terms of judge of character and could lead to a very awkward situation if the gay saw it as a reason to attempt to 'turn' a person. The most worrying part is a few people have mentioned it so it must be part of some common fantasy, that the straighter the person, or the more discomfortable the person is with homosexuality the more appealing they are to the gay.

I tried to make it clear that its not something I throw around generally and that it was a specific response to you.

It's your comments that are leading me to believe there might be something going on underneath the surface, not the fact that you are uncomfortable with homosexuality or homophobic.

For example, you're comparison to guys who are nervous around girls. Generally speaking, guys who are nervous around girls are the shy awkward types who really like the girls but don't know now to approach them. It's their desire and inability to articulate that desire which causes the awkwardness.

For that reason you generally won't find many gay guys who are shy and awkward around girls - because the underlying sexual desire is removed.

In your case, given how uncomfortable gay men seem make you, you're focus on sexual aspects, your over the top assertions of your straightness and interest in girls (so much so that you say it's your main interest) and your need to come back here again and again to try and articulate yourself leads me to have my suspicions.

I don't feel it's so much a case of trying to convince anybody here, but rather convincing yourself.

Now, I realise there's little point in trying to explain that - either I'm wrong, and you are perhaps just massively misinformed, ignorant of homosexuality and homophobic, or else you are so repressed that you will never be able to deal with it. Either way, it's a shame for you.

I'm not saying it as a put down or to ridicule you, but it's just an observation that occurred to me as I read you're posts and wondered why you care so much.

Also, you should know that heterosexuality and discomfort with homosexuality are not one in the same thing or otherwise linked.

The fact that you aren't comfortable with gay people doesn't in any way prove or (by itself) disprove your heterosexuality.

There are many many straight people who are extremely comfortable with homosexuality and many many gay people who are uncomfortable with it.

In fact, it is fairly well documented (and backed up by research) that many people who are loudest to pronounce their dislike of homosexuality are themselves suppressing homosexual feelings.

Indeed there was a documentary a while back which examined the countless number of anti-gay figures in the States who were themselves caught in homosexual acts

In any event, your ideas and attitudes seem pretty ignorant and offensive, so trust me, as long as you open your mouth, there won't be many (if any) gay guys who find you attractive.

Doug89

To the original question - I've always done it, even though I know I don't have to, but I think it's a case that I wouldn't like to live with a bunch of homophobes.

Similarly, there's a lot of LGBT related volunteering stuff and experience on my CV, a career advisor once suggested I take it off, my thoughts that if somewhere doesn't want to hire me for being a gayer, then it's not somewhere that I would want to take a job from.

tunedout

oisindoyle wrote: »

The more I read this thread (17pages!!!) the more I am coming to the conclusion that Tunedout is a troll

Maybe you just don't like opinions/views that don't suit you?

tunedout

floggg wrote: »

I tried to make it clear that its not something I throw around generally and that it was a specific response to you.

It's your comments that are leading me to believe there might be something going on underneath the surface, not the fact that you are uncomfortable with homosexuality or homophobic.
.

Even if it is specific to me I still find it worrying that you might think I'm a homosexual, without my saying it. This would be a strong negative for me with regards living with a homosexual. I could be giving off 'signs' that they might interpret incorrectly unbenownst to me. That for me would be a worrying scenario.

tunedout

Awake&Unafraid wrote: »

"A gay" "the gay" ... how lovely.

Tunedout, you seen to be overly concerned about being "turned". If you're really secure about your sexuality I don't understand how it could be a concern, or a factor in choosing a gay roommate.

Not all gay people (yes we are in fact people) run around trying to find straight men to "turn them gay". Anyone that has a massive concern with being "turned gay" though, can't really be as secure with their sexuality as they like to think they are.

Another gay person who is deriving conclusions about my sexuality. Very worrying indeed. If you read my posts you will it is not how I am concerned that I might give in to an advance. I am quite certain of what my response would be in that scenario. My worry lies with how awkward the living arrangement would be after the event.

jaffacakesyum

tunedout wrote: »

Maybe you just don't like opinions/views that don't suit you?

I think you'll find most people on here don't like homophobic 'opinions', not opinions they don't agree with per se.

tunedout

wonderfulname wrote: »

Hello again, I trust you have had a good look at that charter I pointed you towards in light of your previous ban, I'd like to point out that your discomfort and rather strange assumption that any gay man would find you remotely attractive for it are in your own head, do in fact constitute homophobia, and if you wish to discuss them further you should do so respectfully and open mindedly. Also, 'gay' is not a noun.

Perhaps you should be looking into why you feel as you do, rather than lambasting others for disagreeing. Please PM with any queries or issues you may have relating to appropriate conduct on this forum, I'd rather not have a repeat of your last visit.

Yes, I have read the charter. People here are hinting towards that I might be gay myself, and they seem to be basing this on my expression of discomfort with a living arrangement where there are differences in sexualities.

I think I am being quite respectful, people here seem to get easily insulted and use homophobic very lightly. I do not 'not like gay people'. I am just giving a point of view which might be good for this forum.

I would also be selective about my living arrangments with regards to gender and age. Noone seems to get insulted or offended by this. It doesn't mean I don't like old people or i don't like women.

tunedout

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I think you'll find most people on here don't like homophobic 'opinions', not opinions they don't agree with per se.

What you and I think of as homophobic seem to be very very different. Maybe we both have extremely biased interpretations of the word, in any event bias is a problem here.

floggg

tunedout wrote: »

Even if it is specific to me I still find it worrying that you might think I'm a homosexual, without my saying it. This would be a strong negative for me with regards living with a homosexual. I could be giving off 'signs' that they might interpret incorrectly unbenownst to me. That for me would be a worrying scenario.

Why would it worry you that somebody might think you were gay?

We've already established that (a) even if they did come on to you, they would likely just leave you alone after receiving a polite but firm no upon their initial advance; and (b) given your views and misconceptions they are unlikely to so come into you.

After that, who cares what they think. If you are as firmly heterosexual as you say, then you shouldn't feel threatened or challenged by others perceptions.

Do you think George Clooney cares if some people think he's gay? While others waste time worrying about his sexuality he's off dating some of the most beautiful women in the world. His own sense of identity and sexual orientation isn't challenged by others perceptions.

In any event, avoiding homosexuals won't change anything about you. You'll still have all these issues and preoccupations with homosexuality.

Regardless of you're living arrangements or preferences, I would think spending some time trying to ponder why you might be so easily threatened by another's sexuality, rather than worrying so much whether a bunch of strangers on the Internet believe your reasoning for being so concerned and threatened about gay people.

Unless of course it's you yourself that you are trying to convince?

Cosmic Maybe

tunedout wrote: »

I could be giving off 'signs' that they might interpret incorrectly unbenownst to me. That for me would be a worrying scenario.

Since college I have lived with all sorts of people gay and straight, male and female, Irish and foreign. Not once in 5 years has there ever been a scenario where a housemate has hit on another. This is real life not Hollywood - these things don't happen!

tunedout

I think people here are looking (for equality purposes) for a level of societal indifference towards sexuality that is completely unrealistic.

It is only human nature that one can be uncomfortable with what is not familiar to them.

And, conversely, I would not be offended if a homosexual person was not comfortable living with me due to my sexuality being something they are not comfortable with.

wonderfulname

tunedout wrote: »

It is only human nature that one can be uncomfortable with what is not familiar to them.

Indeed, this is where racism, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sectarianism and other such intolerant viewpoints tend to stem from, these tend to be addressed by integration of communities and individuals, not seperation, as it teaches we're all just human, and that the colour of your skin, who you want to bone or what bits you have are pretty damn insignificant.

floggg

tunedout wrote: »

I think people here are looking (for equality purposes) for a level of societal indifference towards sexuality that is completely unrealistic.

It is only human nature that one can be uncomfortable with what is not familiar to them.

And, conversely, I would not be offended if a homosexual person was not comfortable living with me due to my sexuality being something they are not comfortable with.

I think you will find homosexuals are pretty comfortable with straight people. I don't know about you, but I've never heard of a straight bashing.

tunedout

floggg wrote: »

Why would it worry you that somebody might think you were gay?

We've already established that (a) even if they did come on to you, they would likely just leave you alone after receiving a polite but firm no upon their initial advance;

For me it would be awkward and uncomfortable living with a gay person after they chanced me.

floggg wrote: »

Do you think George Clooney cares if some people think he's gay? While others waste time worrying about his sexuality he's off dating some of the most beautiful women in the world. His own sense of identity and sexual orientation isn't challenged by others perceptions.

In any event, avoiding homosexuals won't change anything about you. You'll still have all these issues and preoccupations with homosexuality.

Regardless of you're living arrangements or preferences, I would think spending some time trying to ponder why you might be so easily threatened by another's sexuality, rather than worrying so much whether a bunch of strangers on the Internet believe your reasoning for being so concerned and threatened about gay people.

Unless of course it's you yourself that you are trying to convince?

OK. I'm not going to discuss my sexuality anymore or engage in that debate because
a) it is miles off topic
b) I am fully comfortable with my sexuality and no exactly where I'm at.
c) I think there's an element of people trying to take the p*ss there.
d) I've just learned, that like George Clooney, I don't care what people think my sexuality is.

We have a bunch of hypocrites here though, because while everyone is roaring about equality I'm willing to wager that anybody who is living in shared accomodation here has chosen that house on a discriminatory basis whether they like to think it or not.

Social cohorts discriminate. That is nature. That is why we have groups of lads and groups of girls walking around the shopping centres. That is why we have old age pensioners playing bingo together, 'Irish' pubs, gay bars, clubs and bars (and indeed whole communities) with mainly black people in them, and kids making friends with people their own age, and, no doubt, houses of gay people living together.

It's nature, it's normal, it's not something we should be running around crying discrimination about. People tend towards their own 'categories'. And people shouldn't be getting all offended because it's completely normal.

It would be a sad world if we had to rename those bingo nights to Ageist nights, and we had Club Racism in full swing in downtown Racistville, and kids were sexist racist ageist animals.

People here need to be realistic and see that the whole human societal structure is discriminatory. And sexuality is not entitled to any preferential treatment, unless one, single, genuine reason can be given for that.

tunedout

floggg wrote: »

I think you will find homosexuals are pretty comfortable with straight people. I don't know about you, but I've never heard of a straight bashing.

You're kind of missing the point there. What I'm saying is most straight people will have absolutely no problem being discriminated against on the basis of their sexuality so why should gay people feel so offended.

paulmorro

tunedout wrote: »

You're kind of missing the point there. What I'm saying is most straight people will have absolutely no problem being discriminated against on the basis of their sexuality so why should gay people feel so offended.

It's not ok for a gay person to say straight sex is disgusting.
It's not ok for a gay person to assume the average straight person will turn them and avoid them for that reason.
It's not ok for a gay to through out boring and wrong generalizations about straight people to disguise fear or contempt.
None of that's ok , and neither are your reasonings.