Coming out or not when I'm visiting apartments

Lingua Franca

tunedout wrote: »

I would be surprised and disappointed if that is true

Prepare to be surprised and disappointed:

1. What discrimination is unlawful under Irish equality legislation?
Irish equality legislation prohibits direct and indirect discrimination in the area of employment and in the supply of and access to goods, facilities and services, on any of the following nine grounds - gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.
...
Discrimination outside the workplace is prohibited by the Equal Status Acts 2000 to 2004. If you are trying to access goods or services and you feel you are discriminated against unlawfully, on any of the nine prohibited grounds, you can make a claim under these Acts. They cover many different goods and services, including access to a place, facilities for banking, entertainment, cultural activities or transport, professional or trade services, health services, access to education and accommodation.

I can only imagine how really disappointing is it for you to find out that discrimination is illegal.

How do you feel about disabled folk?

Annasopra

My understanding of the equality legislation is;

A landlord could not refuse to rent a house to someone on the basis of their sexual orientation with exceptions. If a landlord or a member of his/her family lives in the house then they can refuse.

Tenants can refuse to live with a person who is gay. (actually not 100 % sure about this part having researched it further)

oisindoyle

tunedout wrote: »

How am I homophobic? I suppose the people in the house are homophobic too are they? Is not wanting to live with a gay person homophobic? If it is then,yes, I'm a homophobe.

I dont want to live with old pensioners either, or live with a family. Does that make me an oapaphobic? Or a familyphobic.

Ye'r all paranoid that yer being discriminated against, but yer not. People just want to live with whats most comfortable for them.

Homophobic is the word used to describe someone who has homophobia. Homophobia is basically the irrational fear or revulsion due to, or bias against homosexuality as a practice or against individuals who are homosexuals. It can also refer to loathing, antagonism, or condemnation of homosexual persons, sexual mannerisms, or related cultures and is usually used to imply prejudice. The term homophobic literal means someone who is biased against homosexual individuals

Think that sums you up to a tee...

jaffacakesyum

Turnedout, I suppose if I said I wasn't comfortble living with a black person that would be ok too?

I honestly want to know what difference to you it is what two people do in the privacy of their own bedroom. If you are living with a heterosexual man, and he's making "heterosexual noises" in the bedroom with a woman, what difference is this to a homosexual man making noises in the bedroom with another man? That's all assuming anyone's making any noise at all; would be very easy to find a man, straight or gay, to live with that respected roommates opinions enough to try not make noises in the bedroom.

There's no logical reason to feel uncomfortable sharing an apartment with a gay man. Gay men, straight men, black men, white men, Chinese men...they're all the same until you get to know them on an individual basis.

Cavehill Red

oisindoyle wrote: »

Really ? You think that .Many many opinion polls would disagree.

Which opinion polls and what would they be disagreeing with, exactly? I think it's pretty self-evident that a lot of Ireland is conservative socially and politically. And the 3% gay percentage comes from the sole credible national survey conducted, by the HSE in 2007.

oisindoyle wrote: »

See above ,,,,,homophobia is homophobia .Saying the OP would get a more "representative opinion" of irish society outside the LGBT is quite insulting ,to LGBT people.

So quick to offence. It's not insulting at all to anyone. A more representative opinion would be likely provided by a more representative sample of society. That's simple maths.

oisindoyle wrote: »

What a contradiction in terms

Not at all. It may surprise you to learn that plenty of people are happy for all sorts of things to occur, be they lifestyles, sexualities, activities or interests, without necessarily desiring them to happen on their living room couch.

baby and crumble

It always amuses me when someone comes in here, expresses an opinion along the lines of "you're all weird", "I have no problem with gay people BUT", or "homosexuality isn't normal though" and get surprised when we disagree with them. What on earth do they think is going to happen?

"You know, I never thought of it that way before but you're so right! Me getting treated like a human being DOES inconvience you, and we wouldn't want that. So sorry, I'll be normal like you in future, and curb my homosexual noises"

As for the op, I agree it sucks that your sexuality is an issue that you have to consider when trying to find somewhere to live. I have had the issue from the other side, where when myself and a (male) mate were trying to find a housemate and a couple of folks who seemed super interested suddenly went off the idea when we both mentioned our girlfriends visit from time to time. Meh. I'd rather be fully comfortable where I live than move in somewhere where the others in the house were going to have an issue. And likewise I can kind of see where they were coming from aswell. Not saying I agree, at all, but hey. Life's too short I reckon.

oisindoyle

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Which opinion polls and what would they be disagreeing with, exactly? I think it's pretty self-evident that a lot of Ireland is conservative socially and politically. And the 3% gay percentage comes from the sole credible national survey conducted, by the HSE in 2007..

I'm not talking about the "3%" .It is widely known and taken that approx 10% of a population is gay.
Re opinion polls ,,many many over recent times have shown that the majority are in favour of marriage equality ..That's not the mindset of a "conservative " people

Cavehill Red wrote: »

So quick to offence. It's not insulting at all to anyone. A more representative opinion would be likely provided by a more representative sample of society. That's simple maths.
..

It is insulting to LGBT and as previously stated ,one doesn't have to be gay to see homophobia .

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Not at all. It may surprise you to learn that plenty of people are happy for all sorts of things to occur, be they lifestyles, sexualities, activities or interests, without necessarily desiring them to happen on their living room couch.

What exactly is a "lifestyle" and what exactly are you expecting to happen on a living room couch ???

paulmorro

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Not at all. It may surprise you to learn that plenty of people are happy for all sorts of things to occur, be they lifestyles, sexualities, activities or interests, without necessarily desiring them to happen on their living room couch.

God imagine if they started holding hands on the street in front of you!

While its swell that these sort of ideas are slightly moved on from the 80s, the idea that people think they are completely accepting of gays while saying things like "discomfort" is beyond. There's obviosly an element of homophobia there even if you're not beating people up.

Annasopra

I think this thread discussion is perhaps going down the road of not actually answering the OPs questions at all and isn't giving him any advice. Tunedouts issues are overtaking the thread.

I don't feel this is particularly helpful because the OPs request for advice is getting totally lost.
Please keep further contributions on this thread to answering the OPs questions

Should I say that I'm gay when I'm visiting an apartment? Or should I run the risk and go inside an apartment without saying a word about my business?

As always pm me with feedback as per the charter

baby and crumble

I think also that making a big deal out of it contributes to the awkwardness that some people might feel. Maybe during the 'questions and chat' bit you could mentioned your ex (make one up if you need to) or ask of its cool that your boyfriend stays over sometimes. (Again, make one up if you need to). That makes it less of a big deal, and you don't plant the idea in people's heads that its a thing that needs to be discussed. I find the less of a big deal you make it, the less of a big deal other people make it too.

XxMCRxBabyxX

tunedout wrote: »

If a house of gay people only want a gay tenant then im very sure everyone would be fine with that. But if a house of straight people dont want a gay person then thats discrimination. The logic is flawed.

Gays are just as just as discrimimative as straight people.

Both are as discriminatory as each other tbh.

OP I'm not gay so maybe take that in mind with my response. You are under no obligation to tell people about your sexuality. That is your business only and for 90% of people it shouldn't matter to them at all.

Daith

Actually in the same situation as the OP and never really thought about it. I've only lived with friends before. I'm going to see rooms this week and yeah I don't know if I should say it or not.

Yes I get everyone's view that it's my own business and I shouldn't need to tell anyone. However it someone in the house was homophobic (and to be honest that's the only word that fits) and it created tension because of it.

I guess I probably wouldn't tell them but yeah I guess you never stop coming out do you.

deuve82

Hi again guys,

Thanks for all your opinions, I don't care if we've lost the focus a little bit, it's always interesting to see different views of the same thing.

From my point of view, when you're a visiting an apartment both sides may say every possible point of conflict: pets, smoking, parties, one night stands allowed or not... and since we are not living in an advanced society in which not the 100% of people is tolerant with homosexuality, I prefer to come out and be sure that I'm not going to have problems with my mates.

But that's my theory and now I'm facing the reality, and mine is that I'm still in my crap apartment after lose a really good opportunity. The people of that apartment took their decision based in their prejudices, I'm pretty sure that in their lives (tunedout, I think is the same for you, tell me if I'm wrong) they haven't met a gay guy who has shown them that our life is as common as a straight life. So I'm not sure yet, but I think for the next time I'm going to close my mouth and run the risk. Or, if I say something, it'll be directly on their faces, not by a text.


ps.: "Homosexual noises" lol!! XD

tunedout

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Turnedout, I suppose if I said I wasn't comfortble living with a black person that would be ok too?

Would you live with a traveller? And can you say that you would be comfortable with that situation?

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I honestly want to know what difference to you it is what two people do in the privacy of their own bedroom. If you are living with a heterosexual man, and he's making "heterosexual noises" in the bedroom with a woman, what difference is this to a homosexual man making noises in the bedroom with another man?

For me I am not comfortable with the idea of homosexual activity. I'm not saying that homosexual activity is wrong. (for me/to me) is key here. When I think of homosexual activity it is not a pleasant thought, why would I subject myself to further/more than necessary unpleasant thoughts than is necessary? Nobody wins in this scenario. So does this answer your question what difference it makes to me?

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

There's no logical reason to feel uncomfortable sharing an apartment with a gay man.

There most certainly is, see above.

tunedout

oisindoyle wrote: »

Homophobic is the word used to describe someone who has homophobia. Homophobia is basically the irrational fear or revulsion due to, or bias against homosexuality as a practice or against individuals who are homosexuals. It can also refer to loathing, antagonism, or condemnation of homosexual persons, sexual mannerisms, or related cultures and is usually used to imply prejudice. The term homophobic literal means someone who is biased against homosexual individuals

Think that sums you up to a tee...

OK, if having any negative impression of a subject implies 'phobic', then I guess I am a phobic of many things. I don't like how dogs smell, therefore I have a phobia of dogs? (I love dogs by the way)

See, in order not to be homophobic, you have to be willing to live with a homosexual, and not have one single slightly negative comment to make about them, what nonsense.

Be aware of peoples comfort zones, and respect and accept them.

XxMCRxBabyxX

tunedout wrote: »

Would you liv
with a traveller? And can you say that you would be comfortable with that situation?



For me I am not comfortable with the idea of homosexual activity. I'm not saying that homosexual activity is wrong. (for me/to me) is key here. When I think of homosexual activity it is not a pleasant thought, why would I subject myself to further/more than necessary unpleasant thoughts than is necessary? Nobody wins in this scenario. So does this answer your question what difference it makes to me?




There most certainly is, see above.

What makes "homosexual activity" anymore uncomfortable than "heterosexual activity"? Sex is sex.

tunedout

deuve82 wrote: »

Hi again guys,

Thanks for all your opinions, I don't care if we've lost the focus a little bit, it's always interesting to see different views of the same thing.

From my point of view, when you're a visiting an apartment both sides may say every possible point of conflict: pets, smoking, parties, one night stands allowed or not... and since we are not living in an advanced society in which not the 100% of people is tolerant with homosexuality, I prefer to come out and be sure that I'm not going to have problems with my mates.

But that's my theory and now I'm facing the reality, and mine is that I'm still in my crap apartment after lose a really good opportunity. The people of that apartment took their decision based in their prejudices, I'm pretty sure that in their lives (tunedout, I think is the same for you, tell me if I'm wrong) they haven't met a gay guy who has shown them that our life is as common as a straight life. So I'm not sure yet, but I think for the next time I'm going to close my mouth and run the risk. Or, if I say something, it'll be directly on their faces, not by a text.


ps.: "Homosexual noises" lol!! XD

Yes you are are right about "haven't met a gay guy who has shown them that our life is as common as a straight life".

But like I said homosexual thoughts are not pleasant for me so it is not exactly logical for me to go subjecting myself to more of those thoughts by palling or living with homosexual people. Its not beneficial for either of us.

tunedout

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

What makes "homosexual activity" anymore uncomfortable than "heterosexual activity"? Sex is sex.

No sex is not sex. The anal pipe on a man is not intended for that purpose, excrement on the penis etc.

The vagina on a female is intended for the purpose of sex.

That is how it is different for me, one is sick and one is not.

wonderfulname

tunedout wrote: »

Would you live with a traveller?

No more of this thanks

Try and legitimise your grevances without dragging up another minority you view as less than equal, LGBT is open to everyone, even those not in the acronym.

oisindoyle

tunedout wrote: »

OK, if having any negative impression of a subject implies 'phobic', then I guess I am a phobic of many things. I don't like how dogs smell, therefore I have a phobia of dogs? (I love dogs by the way)

See, in order not to be homophobic, you have to be willing to live with a homosexual, and not have one single slightly negative comment to make about them, what nonsense.

Be aware of peoples comfort zones, and respect and accept them.

Well no you don't have to live with a homosexual not to be homophobic,it beggars belief that has to be pointed out to you .

But you did say (amongst other things)

"For example, i wouldnt be comfortable sitting in the sitting room if two lads are holding hands or whatever. Also i dont want to hear homosexual noises in my house."

The above are homophobic comments from a homophobic person i.e YOU

"Homophobia is basically the irrational fear or revulsion due to, or bias against homosexuality as a practice or against individuals who are homosexuals. It can also refer to loathing, antagonism, or condemnation of homosexual persons, sexual mannerisms, or related cultures and is usually used to imply prejudice."

XxMCRxBabyxX

tunedout wrote: »

No sex is not sex. The anal pipe on a man is not intended for that purpose, excrement on the penis etc.

The vagina on a female is intended for the purpose of sex.

That is how it is different for me, one is sick and one is not.

This is why you have shown yourself to be homophobic.

oisindoyle

tunedout wrote: »

No sex is not sex. The anal pipe on a man is not intended for that purpose, excrement on the penis etc. .

It's interesting that all you see when you condemn a gay person/s is sex..
There is more to gay people (and life) than sex.Why the obsession with other peoples sex lives ??.
For your information a recent study found that over 67% of gay men DO NOT engage in anal sex ,whereas 54% of hetrosexual people do .
Funny that isn't it .

tunedout wrote: »

The vagina on a female is intended for the purpose of sex..

Well not quite ...

tunedout wrote: »

That is how it is different for me, one is sick and one is not.

and there we have the prsjuice and hatred of gay people ,,but you're not homophobic sure you're not !!

pwurple

deuve82 wrote: »

From my point of view, when you're a visiting an apartment both sides may say every possible point of conflict: pets, smoking, parties, one night stands allowed or not... and since we are not living in an advanced society in which not the 100% of people is tolerant with homosexuality, I prefer to come out and be sure that I'm not going to have problems with my mates.

Sounds like a good plan alright. House shares can be awkward for all sorts of unexpected/ridiculous reasons. I remember one houseshare nearly coming to blows over one housemate having a preference for watching the soaps, while the others preferred the news. As weird as it is to discuss sexuality with complete strangers, it is probably best to be upfront about it in case you do run into a bigot.

Best of luck!

wonderfulname

tunedout wrote: »

No sex is not sex. The anal pipe on a man is not intended for that purpose, excrement on the penis etc.

The vagina on a female is intended for the purpose of sex.

That is how it is different for me, one is sick and one is not.

User infracted for this post

Blatent homophobia is not acceptable as per forum charter.

tunedout

Ok well it seems i cant say anything here without being considered homophobic. To be honest , everyone who is not gay is homophobic by yer conditions.i disagree with the infraction above, maybe sick was too strong a word but its an unpleasant thought for me, id best leave ye at , because theres no point arguing with a group who are blind to the other side of the story and who complain about people who make a decision based on whats comfortable for them and whats not.

XxMCRxBabyxX

tunedout wrote: »

Ok well it seems i cant say anything here without being considered homophobic. To be honest , everyone who is not gay is homophobic by yer conditions.i disagree with the infraction above, maybe sick was too strong a word but its an unpleasant thought for me, id best leave ye at , because theres no point arguing with a group who are blind to the other side of the story and who complain about people who make a decision based on whats comfortable for them and whats not.

Not everyone posting on here is gay. I'm straight and I still think thst you are homophobic. Your comments have made it clear that you are whether you want to believe it or not.

There's being 'comfortable' and there is discriminating against others. You have done the latter.

Slutmonkey57b

deuve82 wrote: »

Hi again guys,

Thanks for all your opinions, I don't care if we've lost the focus a little bit, it's always interesting to see different views of the same thing.

From my point of view, when you're a visiting an apartment both sides may say every possible point of conflict: pets, smoking, parties, one night stands allowed or not... and since we are not living in an advanced society in which not the 100% of people is tolerant with homosexuality, I prefer to come out and be sure that I'm not going to have problems with my mates.

But that's my theory and now I'm facing the reality, and mine is that I'm still in my crap apartment after lose a really good opportunity. The people of that apartment took their decision based in their prejudices, I'm pretty sure that in their lives (tunedout, I think is the same for you, tell me if I'm wrong) they haven't met a gay guy who has shown them that our life is as common as a straight life. So I'm not sure yet, but I think for the next time I'm going to close my mouth and run the risk. Or, if I say something, it'll be directly on their faces, not by a text.


ps.: "Homosexual noises" lol!! XD

Op, I think you did the right thing in bringing it up the way you did. It's very easy to jump at an offer of a flat (or from the other side agree to let someone move in) and then discover you're in the middle of an uncomfortable situation because of a conflict with your housemates. You can't cover every possible angle of everyone's foibles, prejudices, or annoying habits beforehand, but you can have the foresight to pick up on what you know are the obvious ones, like pets, smoking, parties etc. In this case, it's regrettable that your sexuality was a sticking point for someone in the apartment. It shouldn't have been, but I don't see much traction in making an issue of it with the tenants.

I'd drop a line to the landlord and thank them for their time, but say unfortunately you can't take it because of this. Unless you're prepared to be the person to expend a lot of time and energy making a stand, going to court is a remedy that would make a point but wouldn't get you a room right now.

Ultimately it's their loss. You made a good impression, proved you were a perfectly good prospective tenant / housemate, and only lost out due to someone else's problem. Hopefully the person they do choose turns out to be a nightmare and they'll have the chance to see how a pointless prejudice cost them.

tunedout

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

Not everyone posting on here is gay. I'm straight and I still think thst you are homophobic. Your comments have made it clear that you are whether you want to believe it or not.

There's being 'comfortable' and there is discriminating against others. You have done the latter.

Ok, but irrelevant of what i have said or not, this thread isnt about me. Fine, lets assume im a homophobe.

But I still respect other peoples preferences for comfort and privacy, and i dont care what they base their assumptions on. If they dont want to live with someone because their fat, they smoke, dont smoke, are muslim, are religious, non religious, gay, straight, traveller, female/male then that should be their right. If they are not comfortable with a traveller or muslim beliefs/dress codes then I find nothing wrong with that. If someone doesnt want to live with me because i drink alcohol or i am male or i am non religious then thats fine, i dont feel discriminated against, i respect their desires.

Cavehill Red

I once lived with two krishna conscious lads in a house share years ago. They were vegetarian by religious conviction and really got upset seeing sausages and bacon in the fridge. At first we got another fridge in, and one was vegetarian and one was not. But then there were issues about cooking meat on pans and pots, so then there were twice the pans and pots. Eventually, some housemates were referring to one fridge as 'the morgue' all the time and rolling their eyes and dramatically leaving the room at the sight of meat, while other flatmates lost patience about having their dinners morally judged and began giving out about hearing chanting through the walls, which until then hadn't been an issue. In the end, the krishna lads moved out and everyone stayed friends.
Bottom line is that you can have incompatible living arrangements without being intolerant or phobic or a bigot. People in a house have to be able to get along or it won't work even with the best will in the world.

Cavehill Red

tunedout wrote: »

But I still respect other peoples preferences for comfort and privacy, and i dont care what they base their assumptions on. If they dont want to live with someone because their fat, they smoke, dont smoke, are muslim, are religious, non religious, gay, straight, traveller, female/male then that should be their right. If they are not comfortable with a traveller or muslim beliefs/dress codes then I find nothing wrong with that. If someone doesnt want to live with me because i drink alcohol or i am male or i am non religious then thats fine, i dont feel discriminated against, i respect their desires.

As clarified earlier in the thread, that is their right. While a landlord cannot discriminate against who he leases to on sexual preference grounds (or any of the other stated grounds), tenants can make their decision about who they wish to live with on any grounds they like without fear of legal penalty.