Sinn Fein TD Dessie Ellis linked to 50 IRA murders

Einhard

GRMA wrote: »

A few minutes ago you give out about them not wanting one, now that you know that they do want one you say they are not serious... they cant win with you can they?

Read my posts again. What I stated was that SF can claim they want such a process, in the knowledge that there never will be one. It's a political stunt, and I'm not criticising them for it. Sf are politically very savvy. A T&R forum would be politically very damaging for them in the south. There's not a chance in hell they'd risk their recent gains down here. Hence, I don't believe they actually want such a process.

gallag

Depressing.

Zebra3

When Obama, who is responsibe for the slaughter of huge numbers of innocent kids in Pakistan by drones, last came to Ireland, did FG and Labour politicans lecture him on being a murderer or did they metaphorically get down on their knees in front of him?

I'd be interesting in hearing about FF's blind eye to kidnap and torture victims being shipped through Ireland by the Americans while FF were in power.

dvpower

Zebra3 wrote: »

When Obama, who is responsibe for the slaughter of huge numbers of innocent kids in Pakistan by drones, last came to Ireland, did FG and Labour politicans lecture him on being a murderer or did they metaphorically get down on their knees in front of him?

I'd be interesting in hearing about FF's blind eye to kidnap and torture victims being shipped through Ireland by the Americans while FF were in power.

What has this got to do with Dessie Ellis?

dvpower

GRMA wrote: »

The IRA no longer exists, their weapons are all decommissioned, the IRA apologized.

What more do you want?

Justice for their crimes.
If justice isn't on the cards, at least they should crawl back under their stones.

GRMA

dvpower wrote: »

Justice for their crimes.
If justice isn't on the cards, at least they should crawl back under their stones.

So pretty much you want them to fcuk off..

Aint gonna happen, I'm sure you'll love it when Martin Ferris is minister for Justice

Stheno

GRMA wrote: »

I'm sure you'll love it when Martin Ferris is minister for Justice

Ain't going to happen for a long time imo.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Dravokivich wrote: »

He should recognise his position as an representative of the Irish people, not just within Ireland, but to those outside of Ireland too....

He's not a representative of the irish people. He's a representative of the fools who voted for him in north Dublin and no one else.

He'll probably take the same approach mick Wallace took and ignore the issue and carry on as if nothing happened.

Irish politics is rotten to the core.

GRMA

CJC999 wrote: »

He's not a representative of the irish people. He's a representative of the fools who voted for him in north Dublin and no one else.

He'll probably take the same approach mick Wallace took and ignore the issue and carry on as if nothing happened.

Irish politics is rotten to the core.

But its well known he was in the IRA and was jailed for bombmaking... so what else is there to be said?


People are going on as if this is some sort of revelation... its not.

dvpower

GRMA wrote: »

So pretty much you want them to fcuk off..

Aint gonna happen, I'm sure you'll love it when Martin Ferris is minister for Justice

I'd welcome SF playing a bigger role. I might even throw one or two of them a vote.

Any of the terrorists amongst them like Dessie Ellis should certainly '**** off'

Pottler

This whole Ellis thing is selectivism and bull. International politics is chock full of "terrorists" who moved on into politics, many with the blood of many more than 50 people on their hands, even if this figure were correct. The entire state of Israel was founded by "terrorists" who moved to "politics", as are plenty more "world class" politicians. One mans "terrorist" is usually another mans "freedom fighter" anyway. If it is historically acceptable worldwide, why is it suddenly unacceptable here in Ireland? Are we somehow special? People change, people change ideologies, people change their viewpoints. That is the nature of the world and very much the nature of world politics. Get over it. Or stop wearing Che Guevarra T-shirts.

dvpower

GRMA wrote: »

But its well known he was in the IRA and was jailed for bombmaking... so what else is there to be said?


People are going on as if this is some sort of revelation... its not.

Ha. Some of you guys would have Larry Murphy as Minister for Children :eek:

Einhard

Pottler wrote: »

This whole Ellis thing is selectivism and bull. International politics is chock full of "terrorists" who moved on into politics, many with the blood of many more than 50 people on their hands, even if this figure were correct. The entire state of Israel was founded by "terrorists" who moved to "politics", as are plenty more "world class" politicians. One mans "terrorist" is usually another mans "freedom fighter" anyway. If it is historically acceptable worldwide, why is it suddenly unacceptable here in Ireland? Are we somehow special? People change, people change ideologies, people change their viewpoints. That is the nature of the world and very much the nature of world politics. Get over it.

Sorry. Some of us can't get over the murder of innocent men, women, and children. Maybe you should get over us not getting over it?

dvpower

Pottler wrote: »

This whole Ellis thing is selectivism and bull. International politics is chock full of "terrorists" who moved on into politics, many with the blood of many more than 50 people on their hands, even if this figure were correct. The entire state of Israel was founded by "terrorists" who moved to "politics", as are plenty more "world class" politicians. One mans "terrorist" is usually another mans "freedom fighter" anyway. If it is historically acceptable worldwide, why is it suddenly unacceptable here in Ireland? Are we somehow special? People change, people change ideologies, people change their viewpoints. That is the nature of the world and very much the nature of world politics. Get over it. Or stop wearing Che Guevarra T-shirts.

Dessie Ellis hasn't changed ideologies, has he?

Stheno

Pottler wrote: »

This whole Ellis thing is selectivism and bull. International politics is chock full of "terrorists" who moved on into politics, many with the blood of many more than 50 people on their hands, even if this figure were correct. The entire state of Israel was founded by "terrorists" who moved to "politics", as are plenty more "world class" politicians. One mans "terrorist" is usually another mans "freedom fighter" anyway. If it is historically acceptable worldwide, why is it suddenly unacceptable here in Ireland? Are we somehow special? People change, people change ideologies, people change their viewpoints. That is the nature of the world and very much the nature of world politics. Get over it. Or stop wearing Che Guevarra T-shirts.

Ellis is on record as not necessarily agreeing with the stopping of paramilitary action at the time of the GFA

But, in a recent book about his native Finglas, he told journalist Samantha Libreri, he had "very serious doubts" about whether the IRA was right to give up violence when it did.

"I would have had the same argument, maybe we needed to go on a little longer, and others had the same argument," he said, while adding: "I think the timing was right overall when you look at it."

MakeEmLaugh

Confab wrote: »

I don't support Sinn Fein or the IRA at all, but Fine Gael started out as a terrorist organisation too.

How many current, serving members of Fine Gael were in a terrorist organisation whose living victims are maimed or survived by still-grieving families and friends? None.

Sinn Féin has several. In addition to Dessie Ellis, they have

* Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin MLA for North Belfast)
* Paul Butler (former Sinn Féin MLA for Lagan Valley)
* Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin MLA for West Tyrone)
* Martina Anderson (former Sinn Féin MLA for Foyle)
* Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin Minister for Culture, Arts and Leisure)
* Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin Deputy First Minster)
* Gerry Adams (Sinn Féin leader)
* Martin Ferris (Sinn Féin TD for Kerry North-West Limerick)

Also, Fine Gael took as much from the Irish Parliamentary Party as it did from anything else which is why the last Fine Gael Taoiseach before Enda Kenny, John Bruton, hung a picture of John Redmond in his office.

And, bad as the tactics employed by the IRA between 1919 - 1922 sometimes were, at least they never planted bombs and fled, bombs which then exploded maiming unarmed defenseless men, women and children.

GRMA

Stheno wrote: »

Ellis is on record as not necessarily agreeing with the stopping of paramilitary action at the time of the GFA

He had doubts but went along with it and accepts that it was the right decision?


Your point?

Pottler

IF, and I say IF, I had been an IRA member, and had fought what I viewed as a legitimate struggle with an enemy aggressor, I'd probably be reluctant to turn my back on my former comrades and beliefs as well. If I had made the transition to peaceful means, that speaks louder than any words of platitude for past actions. You cannot change the past, but you can change the present and the future. My wifes grandfather was a prominent original IRA member, who laid down his weapons and embraced peaceful means - people change, but that doesn't mean they have to wear sack-cloths and ashes for the rest of their lives.

Stheno

dvpower wrote: »

Ha. Some of you guys would have Larry Murphy as Minister for Children :eek:

Murphy is not a convicted paedophile though.

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

How many current, serving members of Fine Gael were in a terrorist organisation whose living victims are maimed or survived by still-grieving families and friends? None.

Sinn Féin has several. In addition to Dessie Ellis, they have

* Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin MLA for North Belfast)
* Paul Butler (former Sinn Féin MLA for Lagan Valley)
* Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin MLA for West Tyrone)
* Martina Anderson (former Sinn Féin MLA for Foyle)
* Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin Minister for Culture, Arts and Leisure)
* Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin Deputy First Minster)
* Gerry Adams (Sinn Féin leader)
* Martin Ferris (Sinn Féin TD for Kerry North-West Limerick)

Also, Fine Gael took as much from the Irish Parliamentary Party as it did from anything else which is why the last Fine Gael Taoiseach before Enda Kenny, John Bruton, hung a picture of John Redmond in his office.

And, bad as the tactics employed by the IRA between 1919 - 1922 sometimes were, at least they never planted bombs and fled, bombs which then exploded maiming unarmed defenseless men, women and children.

While I loathe Sinn Fein and make no apologies for it, I equally loathe sloppy posting. Neither Gerry Adams or Pat Doherty have ever been convicted of any criminal offences or of belonging to any terrorist organisation. You might want to amend your post above?

Pottler

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

How many current, serving members of Fine Gael were in a terrorist organisation whose living victims are maimed or survived by still-grieving families and friends? None.

Sinn Féin has several. In addition to Dessie Ellis, they have

* Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin MLA for North Belfast)
* Paul Butler (former Sinn Féin MLA for Lagan Valley)
* Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin MLA for West Tyrone)
* Martina Anderson (former Sinn Féin MLA for Foyle)
* Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin Minister for Culture, Arts and Leisure)
* Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin Deputy First Minster)
* Gerry Adams (Sinn Féin leader)
* Martin Ferris (Sinn Féin TD for Kerry North-West Limerick)

Also, Fine Gael took as much from the Irish Parliamentary Party as it did from anything else which is why the last Fine Gael Taoiseach before Enda Kenny, John Bruton, hung a picture of John Redmond in his office.

And, bad as the tactics employed by the IRA between 1919 - 1922 sometimes were, at least they never planted bombs and fled, bombs which then exploded maiming unarmed defenseless men, women and children.

I agree fully with your points in bold, the rest is just a matter of time passing.

Stheno

GRMA wrote: »

He had doubts but went along with it and accepts that it was the right decision?

Your point?

He had enough influence given that he admits he was in the upper echelons of the IRA to foment disquiet about the GFA?


And he thinks it was probably the right decision, nowhere has he come out and said it was the way forward.

Leopards/spots?

dvpower

Stheno wrote: »

Murphy is not a convicted paedophile though.

Equality and Law Reform so.:eek:

Stheno

dvpower wrote: »

Equality and Law Reform so.:eek:

Lolol.

Seaneh

Einhard wrote: »

Sorry. Some of us can't get over the murder of innocent men, women, and children. Maybe you should get over us not getting over it?

So has he been tried and convicted for these alleged murders?

You have to remember these same same British "intelligence agencies" listed Maldela as a "terrorist" linked to hundreds of "murders" at the same point in history. Those same agencies were colluding with "Loyalist" death squads to murder civilians in the 6 counties. When the british authorities start releasing the names of the people who colluded with loyalist death squads like the shankhill butchers and start persuing those people and start holding those people accountable for their crimes then I will demand that a man who was accquitted by a UK court be held accountible.

Seaneh

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

How many current, serving members of Fine Gael were in a terrorist organisation whose living victims are maimed or survived by still-grieving families and friends? None.

Sinn Féin has several. In addition to Dessie Ellis, they have

* Gerry Kelly (Sinn Féin MLA for North Belfast)
* Paul Butler (former Sinn Féin MLA for Lagan Valley)
* Pat Doherty (Sinn Féin MLA for West Tyrone)
* Martina Anderson (former Sinn Féin MLA for Foyle)
* Carál Ní Chuilín (Sinn Féin Minister for Culture, Arts and Leisure)
* Martin McGuinness (Sinn Féin Deputy First Minster)
* Gerry Adams (Sinn Féin leader)
* Martin Ferris (Sinn Féin TD for Kerry North-West Limerick)

Also, Fine Gael took as much from the Irish Parliamentary Party as it did from anything else which is why the last Fine Gael Taoiseach before Enda Kenny, John Bruton, hung a picture of John Redmond in his office.

And, bad as the tactics employed by the IRA between 1919 - 1922 sometimes were, at least they never planted bombs and fled, bombs which then exploded maiming unarmed defenseless men, women and children.

The ANC has far more members of a "terrorist" organisation serving as members of government.

What's your flipping point?

Einhard

Seaneh wrote: »

So has he been tried and convicted for these alleged murders?

You have to remember these same same British "intelligence agencies" listed Maldela as a "terrorist" linked to hundreds of "murders" at the same point in history. Those same agencies were colluding with "Loyalist" death squads to murder civilians in the 6 counties. When the british authorities start releasing the names of the people who colluded with loyalist death squads like the shankhill butchers and start persuing those people and start holding those people accountable for their crimes then I will demand that a man who was accquitted by a UK court be held accountible.

You're quoting me out of context. The sentence you quote was in response to Pottler's post that we should just get over the actions of the IRA, not Dessie Ellis specifically.

dvpower

Stheno wrote: »

While I loathe Sinn Fein and make no apologies for it, I equally loathe sloppy posting. Neither Gerry Adams or Pat Doherty have ever been convicted of any criminal offences or of belonging to any terrorist organisation. You might want to amend your post above?

There is hardly any doubt but that both of these men were senior IRA members.

dvpower

Seaneh wrote: »

The ANC has far more members of a "terrorist" organisation serving as members of government.

What's your flipping point?

The ANC has no sitting TDs in the Dail.
We do have some convicted terrorists 'tho.

Seaneh

dvpower wrote: »

There is hardly any doubt but that both of these men were senior IRA members.

Then surely they would have been in jail by now?

Do you know more than the British criminal justice system?

Stheno

dvpower wrote: »

There is hardly any doubt but that both of these men were senior IRA members.

I agree, however I dislike them being classed as the same as those who are convicted of offences or proven to be part of a terrorist organisation

Posters should try to be accurate in what they post, and what was posted about them is inaccurate.

If the man on the street knows they were in the IRA then why weren't they convicted?