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Sinn Fein TD Dessie Ellis linked to 50 IRA murders

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    #122
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Offy wrote: »
    Any normal person would have taken the threat seriously and not let their people get killed when they could have been saved but the Brits like to make martyrs even if it is women and children. As I see it the Brits that gave no warning were to blame as much as the people that planted the bomb.
    It must take a special kind of miswiring to believe this.


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    #123
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Responding to remarks this evening by Fine Gael TD Charlie Flanagan, Sinn Féin Dublin North West TD Dessie Ellis said:

    “It is interesting that Fine Gael's Charlie Flanagan places such importance on the unsubstantiated claims of British intelligence – the same shadowy forces who murdered so many Irish citizens over the years.

    “I'm sure that it hasn't escaped Deputy Flanagan's attention that I was cleared by a British court of these trumped up allegations which begs the question as to where he is coming from.

    “Mr Flanagan mentions without any hint of irony the need for an Independent Truth & Reconciliation Commission despite the fact that it is Sinn Féin who have led such calls and despite the fact that Mr Flanagan's government has done nothing at all to support the establishment of such a process.

    “I enthusiastically support the establishment of an Independent International Truth and Reconciliation Commission to deal with the legacy of conflict in Ireland. I hope Charlie Flanagan will follow up his new found support for such a process with positive action to pressurize his colleagues in government to act on this.

    “Finally, let me say that I am very proud of my involvement in the republican struggle over the years and of the leadership role republicans have played in the peace process, despite the best efforts of nay-sayers such as Charlie Flanagan and his ilk.”


    So he was cleared by a British court.... An IRA man cleared with the deck stacked against him... good enough for me


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    #124
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Sully wrote: »
    While the Irish don't seem to particular like Kenny, he is very good at this job and holds the office with pride.

    Get out.
    awec wrote: »
    Has he been tried against all 50 cases? Has millions and millions been spent to build a case against him? Have Sinn Fein leaders been hauled in front of committees for questioning?

    You do know the difference in a conviction/trial and allegations?


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    #125
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    6000 documents were released. The Dessie Ellis one is not on the UK govt site yet.

    How did the Indo get/find it straight away?


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    #126
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    A Brit conspiracy against Dessie, no doubt. ;)


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    #127
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    A Brit conspiracy against Dessie, no doubt. ;)

    Or an FG/Lab one.

    They're the parties getting restless on the perches.


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    #128
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    summerskin wrote: »
    Ahhhh so if they target children AND adults its ok?


    ....nobody has shown where they deliberately targeted children, which was what the poster claimed.


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    #129
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Ghandee wrote: »
    ...They're the parties getting restless on the perches.

    ...And quite well they might.
    After they all (especially first-timers) qualify for their lifetime pensions in February, all bets are afterwards off as to the further backing FG can 100% rely on from Labour!


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    #130
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Does anyone have a link to the actual papers that make the 50 murders claim?

    I've looked but can't get them.


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    #131
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Does anyone have a link to the actual papers that make the 50 murders claim?

    I've looked but can't get them.
    No. They are not online yet. Over 6000 were released and the Indo somehow got there hands on this one straight away... go figure.


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    #132
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    GRMA wrote: »
    No. They are not online yet. Over 6000 were released and the Indo somehow got there hands on this one straight away... go figure.

    They are pre-released to the press iirc


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    #133
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    GRMA wrote: »
    No. They are not online yet. Over 6000 were released and the Indo somehow got there hands on this one straight away... go figure.

    I can't see how the British would have the intelligence to make an accurate claim of '50 murders' unless the IRA were engaged in incredibly meticulous contemporaneous record keeping that the British were able to get their hands on.


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    #134
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Or an FG/Lab one.

    They're the parties getting restless on the perches.

    You better believe it. Everyone knows they're in bed with the Brits and would leak British government documents to the Indo to get poor auld Dessie.


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    #135
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Not online from what I can see. Are these in the UK papers or in papers released by Dublin?


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    #136
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Released by the UK government


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    #137
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,016 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    You better believe it. Everyone knows they're in bed with the Brits and would leak British government documents to the Indo to get poor auld Dessie.

    Leak something from 30 years ago?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #138
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Leak something from 30 years ago?

    I think you missed the sarcasm, this is the yearly releasing of archives, which usually goes to the press early iirc, and the indo have chosen to focus on this.

    The UK release their papers before us.


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    #139
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Sully wrote: »
    I'm well aware of the IRA apology. But that doesn't take away from Sinn Feins links which are being denied.

    No you weren't well aware of the IRA's apology at all, tell the truth.

    If you believe SF & the IRA are one and the same then its a statement from both.. The link even links you to SF for Gods sake.

    Do the mature thing, man up and don't bother me with lame replies when faced with the truth.

    Sorry I haven't replied to anyone else in the thread who may have quoted me but I was working last night, back in at eight and don't have too much online time over the weekends to keep up with a busy thread.


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    #140
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Craig Orange Succotash wrote: »
    No you weren't well aware of the IRA's apology at all, tell the truth.

    If you believe SF & the IRA are one and the same then its a statement from both.. The link even links you to SF for Gods sake.

    Do the mature thing, man up and don't bother me with lame replies when faced with the truth.

    Sorry I haven't replied to anyone else in the thread who may have quoted me but I was working last night, back in at eight and don't have too much online time over the weekends to keep up with a busy thread.

    I remember the IRAs apology. Likewise I remember the IRA saying its all over. But the IRA splinter groups continue and the war rages on.

    I never said that SF & IRA are all the one either. I wouldn't insult the decent member of Sinn Fein who have nothing to do with their dirty bloody past.

    But those involved in Sinn Fein, and the party as a whole for supporting the IRA Campaigns, should apologise instead of shrugging it off and not seeming to care (Dessie Ellis, for example). They should abandon their association with the IRA.


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    #141
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Sully wrote: »
    I remember the IRAs apology. Likewise I remember the IRA saying its all over. But the IRA splinter groups continue and the war rages on.

    I never said that SF & IRA are all the one either. I wouldn't insult the decent member of Sinn Fein who have nothing to do with their dirty bloody past.

    But those involved in Sinn Fein, and the party as a whole for supporting the IRA Campaigns, should apologise instead of shrugging it off and not seeming to care (Dessie Ellis, for example). They should abandon their association with the IRA.
    The IRA no longer exists, their weapons are all decommissioned, the IRA apologized.

    What more do you want?


    We all know what you are at, you're a typical blueshirt, using the dead as a political football when you don't give a damn about them really. You lot are even doing the same with your own member, McEntee, to try and further a neo section 31 agenda to stop comment and criticism.


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    #142
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    GRMA wrote: »
    The IRA no longer exists, their weapons are all decommissioned, the IRA apologized.

    What more do you want?


    We all know what you are at, you're a typical blueshirt, using the dead as a political football when you don't give a damn about them really. You lot are even doing the same with your own member, McEntee, to try and further a neo section 31 agenda to stop comment and criticism.

    This topic isn't about the IRA. This topic is about Dessie Ellis, a convicted criminal who made bombs for the IRA which killed innocent people and has spun into a discussion about Sinn Fein and their current and past links to terrorism while holding positions of such importance.

    Your now spinning the attention away from Sinn Fein, as the Shinners do best, onto something else. I'm not making a political football out of anybody and I don't think the families of the bereaved who were killed- by the British or the IRA, would appreciate those comments either considering they are frequently calling on Gerry Adams, Martin McGuiness & Sinn Fein in general to man up, admit their involvement and apologise.


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    #143
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Biggins wrote: »
    The above says it all for me 100%.
    No doubt the above will be conveniently forgotten about and muck throwing will begin again in the run up to the next elections.
    Double-standards as usual in Irish politics from the usual mafia.

    Double standards? What are you talking about? FG started out as a terrorist organisation, but stopped murdering people 80 years ago. As far as I know, no senior member of FG has ever been involved in murder or in enabling murder. So to make such an analogy is ridiculous to say the least.

    As for the main topic, of course Ellis was involved in murder. What's the surprise? He's a convicted bomb maker. I'm pretty sure he wasn't so sophisticated that he only produced bombs that killed soldiers. So Ellis created devices that he knew would kill and maim innocent men, women, and children. Now a lot of people seem ok with that, and a lot of people have voted for him in that knowledge. That's their right, but it's pretty gobsmacking to me. How can people vote for such a man, and then criticise the government for relatively inconsequential decisions? It's a strange one.

    Just to balance things out, and get in before the inevitable ripostes- yes, the British and the Loyalists were involved in very bad things to.

    One thing that annoys me though, is how so many Republicans (rightyly) demand investigations of collusion etc, yet when IRA actions are mentioned, it's time to move on and stop living in the past etc. You can't have it both ways.


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    #144
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Most republicans, including Dessie, have long been calling for a truth and reconciliation forum


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    #145
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    GRMA wrote: »
    Most republicans, including Dessie, have long been calling for a truth and reconciliation forum

    That's a charade to be honest. I think it would be worthwhile if it was entered into honestly, but that'd never happen from both sides. I mean, it's widely acknowledged that Gerry Adams was in the IRA, yet SF can't even bring themselves to admit that. There's not a chance that SF would risk their electoral success in the south by admitting to all their dirty deeds. And the Brits wouldn't touch such a process with a barge pole.


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    #146
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Einhard wrote: »
    That's a charade to be honest. I think it would be worthwhile if it was entered into honestly, but that'd never happen from both sides. I mean, it's widely acknowledged that Gerry Adams was in the IRA, yet SF can't even bring themselves to admit that. There's not a chance that SF would risk their electoral success in the south by admitting to all their dirty deeds. And the Brits wouldn't touch such a process with a barge pole.
    If he was, why would he admit it and get himself jailed?

    There needs to be a truth and reconciliation forum and an amnesty for those who take part in it


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    #147
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Amnesty? Would the UVF and the brits be able to avail of it?


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    #148
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Einhard wrote: »
    There's not a chance that SF would risk their electoral success in the south by admitting to all their dirty deeds.

    If all of the belligerents' dirty laundry was aired in a internationally arbitrated truth and reconciliation commission people here would begin to develop a more balanced picture than the distorted section 31 establishment formed one most currently have. It could well see SF getting more votes if anything.

    A T&RC would expose the British/Unionist BA/RUC narrative of being a referee for the lies it is and their collusion with civilian murdering loyalist gangs as not just a series of isolated incidents but a policy that was tolerated if not encouraged in the corridors of power in Britain.


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    #149
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    GRMA wrote: »
    If he was, why would he admit it and get himself jailed?

    There needs to be a truth and reconciliation forum and an amnesty for those who take part in it
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If all of the belligerents dirty laundry was aired in a internationally arbitrated truth and reconciliation commission people here would begin to develop a more balanced picture than the distorted section 31 establishment formed most currently have. It could well see SF getting more votes if anything.

    A T&RC would expose the British/Unionist BA/RUC narrative of being a referee for the lies it is and their collusion with civilian murdering loyalist gangs as not just a series of isolated incidents but a policy that was tolerated if not encouraged in the corridors of power in Britain.

    Such a process would be great I think, but all sides have too much to lose and they know it. SF call for such a forum knowing that they'll never have to engage in one. And that suits them down to the ground.


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    #150
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Amnesty? Would the UVF and the brits be able to avail of it?
    If they took part in the forum, then yes... as it is the maximum term anyone can serve for stuff during the troubles is two years


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    #151
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    Einhard wrote: »
    Such a process would be great I think, but all sides have too much to lose and they know it. SF call for such a forum knowing that they'll never have to engage in one. And that suits them down to the ground.
    A few minutes ago you give out about them not wanting one, now that you know that they do want one you say they are not serious... they cant win with you can they?


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