Gardai (and Shatter) failed to enforce the law at RIRA funeral

fasttalkerchat

Laminations wrote: »

2 released, no mention of charges. 14 men and 1 woman left.

Are Alans parents still being held? I heard that they were taken from the house in handcuffs after a raid. His brothers were arrested too.

Sunnyisland

Just for the info

Three men, who were being questioned in connection with the investigation into criminal activity at the funeral of Alan Ryan, are to face charges of membership of an illegal organisation.
The three are being detained at Garda Stations in Dublin city centre and are due before the Special Criminal Court in the morning.
The men are 33, 23 and 22-years-old.
Earlier, fourteen males were released without charge. ...


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0914/ryan-funeral-dublin.html

Laminations

Are their names Vincent, Eoin and Dermot?

SaoriseBiker

realies wrote: »

Just for the info

Three men, who were being questioned in connection with the investigation into criminal activity at the funeral of Alan Ryan, are to face charges of membership of an illegal organisation.
The three are being detained at Garda Stations in Dublin city centre and are due before the Special Criminal Court in the morning.
The men are 33, 23 and 22-years-old.
Earlier, fourteen males were released without charge. ...


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0914/ryan-funeral-dublin.html

Seen that countless times during the troubles. Don't be surprised if the pattern follows - arrests ...... charges arising from the arrests........ charges are then quietly dropped a few months later.

JustinDee

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Seen that countless times during the troubles. Don't be surprised if the pattern follows - arrests ...... charges arising from the arrests........ charges are then quietly dropped a few months later.

Wishful thinking on your part.
They'll be charged and the charges will be followed up with sentences. Rightfully so.

Dyr

realies wrote: »

Just for the info

Three men, who were being questioned in connection with the investigation into criminal activity at the funeral of Alan Ryan, are to face charges of membership of an illegal organisation.
The three are being detained at Garda Stations in Dublin city centre and are due before the Special Criminal Court in the morning.
The men are 33, 23 and 22-years-old.
Earlier, fourteen males were released without charge. ...


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0914/ryan-funeral-dublin.html

Back to the good old days of round ups for the sake of the media, and charging people for an offence that a court can convict them of with only the opinion of a copper offered as evidence. You'd never guess fine gael were back in power :pac:

Laminations

Bambi wrote: »

Back to the good old days of round ups for the sake of the media, and charging people for an offence that a court can convict them of with only the opinion of a copper offered as evidence. You'd never guess fine gael were back in power :pac:

Firstly the men are involved in criminality and terrorism and are alleged members of an illegal organisation which impersonates the armed forces and fires live ammunition in public (from semi- automatic weapons). This group is also implicated in numerous murders. It's not like they are teenagers being sent down for shooting a starting pistol or letting off a firework.

Secondly they won't be convicted merely on the back of Garda testimony. It will be down to surveillance and intelligence gathered, equipment seized during the recent raids and information gained from the police questioning of the 16/17 people. There's no honour among thieves and that's all this lot are.

Laminations

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Seen that countless times during the troubles. Don't be surprised if the pattern follows - arrests ...... charges arising from the arrests........ charges are then quietly dropped a few months later.

They've already gone before the special criminal court.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0915/breaking2.html

The law, it's not gone away you know

junder

Bambi wrote: »

realies wrote: »

Just for the info

Three men, who were being questioned in connection with the investigation into criminal activity at the funeral of Alan Ryan, are to face charges of membership of an illegal organisation.
The three are being detained at Garda Stations in Dublin city centre and are due before the Special Criminal Court in the morning.
The men are 33, 23 and 22-years-old.
Earlier, fourteen males were released without charge. ...


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0914/ryan-funeral-dublin.html

Back to the good old days of round ups for the sake of the media, and charging people for an offence that a court can convict them of with only the opinion of a copper offered as evidence. You'd never guess fine gael were back in power :pac:

By arresting them they have 'red lighted' them which means thier effectiveness is deminshed. Moreover it also cast suspicion on the arresty that's released without charge since it could mean they have turned tout, does not matter if it's true or not just casting doubt can be damage enough

SaoriseBiker

Laminations wrote: »

They've already gone before the special criminal court.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0915/breaking2.html

The law, it's not gone away you know

Their before the special criminal court, so what ? Meanwhile the murderer of Alan Ryan is walking about to probably sell more drugs and kill someone, priorites and justice Gombeen state style. And of course other criminals will be ignored by the Sunday Independent ' nationalists ' such as the banksters and their Fianna Fail facilitators, child molesters in the Catholic church etc

junder wrote: »

By arresting them they have 'red lighted' them which means thier effectiveness is deminshed. Moreover it also cast suspicion on the arresty that's released without charge since it could mean they have turned tout, does not matter if it's true or not just casting doubt can be damage enough

I'll give you odds on that the RIRA are stronger and have more street cred now in Dublin than they ever had.

( And I repeat, I'm not a RIRA supporter. )

Ash.J.Williams

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Their before the special criminal court, so what ? Meanwhile the murderer of Alan Ryan is walking about to probably sell more drugs and kill someone, priorites and justice Gombeen state style. And of course other criminals will be ignored by the Sunday Independent ' nationalists ' such as the banksters and their Fianna Fail facilitators, child molesters in the Catholic church etc


I'll give you odds on that the RIRA are stronger and have more street cred now in Dublin than they ever had.

( And I repeat, I'm not a RIRA supporter. )

street cred amongst idiots

Dyr

Laminations wrote: »

Firstly the men are involved in criminality and terrorism and are alleged members of an illegal organisation which impersonates the armed forces and fires live ammunition in public (from semi- automatic weapons). This group is also implicated in numerous murders. It's not like they are teenagers being sent down for shooting a starting pistol or letting off a firework.

Secondly they won't be convicted merely on the back of Garda testimony. It will be down to surveillance and intelligence gathered, equipment seized during the recent raids and information gained from the police questioning of the 16/17 people. There's no honour among thieves and that's all this lot are.

Do me a favour and back up the assortment of allegations you've made there. Just to help you you've alleged:

the people who have been charged are criminals and terrorists, that's actually tautology but that's your problem. which would imply that they have been previously convicted os such offences. Proof of convictions please
they have also been convicted of theft. Proof of conviction please.
that you're privy to the details of whatever case the DPP have built

while you're at it, maybe you would like to deny that the offences against the state acts allow for a garda's opinion alone to suffice as proof of membership of a proscribed organisation.

off ya go.

junder

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

Laminations wrote: »

They've already gone before the special criminal court.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0915/breaking2.html

The law, it's not gone away you know

Their before the special criminal court, so what ? Meanwhile the murderer of Alan Ryan is walking about to probably sell more drugs and kill someone, priorites and justice Gombeen state style. And of course other criminals will be ignored by the Sunday Independent ' nationalists ' such as the banksters and their Fianna Fail facilitators, child molesters in the Catholic church etc

junder wrote: »

By arresting them they have 'red lighted' them which means thier effectiveness is deminshed. Moreover it also cast suspicion on the arresty that's released without charge since it could mean they have turned tout, does not matter if it's true or not just casting doubt can be damage enough

I'll give you odds on that the RIRA are stronger and have more street cred now in Dublin than they ever had.

( And I repeat, I'm not a RIRA supporter. )

Regardless of what 'street cred' they may or may not have by being lifted by the police they have been compromised, thier ablity to take part in clandestine operations has been restricted. Even in the days of PIRA, any pira member brought in by the police was generally retired and sent to El paso (Dundalk), that's providing they were able to convince the internal security unit (scap and his boys) that they had not let anything slip during interrogation

Ash.J.Williams

I think his killer needs to be caught. It's suspicious how the drug gangs are being blamed without question. What if it wasn't them?

SaoriseBiker

junder wrote: »

Regardless of what 'street cred' they may or may not have by being lifted by the police they have been compromised, thier ablity to take part in clandestine operations has been restricted. Even in the days of PIRA, any pira member brought in by the police was generally retired and sent to El paso (Dundalk), that's providing they were able to convince the internal security unit (scap and his boys) that they had not let anything slip during interrogation

If been arrested or harassed by the police or Brits put IRA men into " retirment " as you put it, the IRA would have been defeated before 1916 If anything, they up their game. Been arrested by the police would be regarded as just an occupational hazzard by Republicans, they'd take it with a slight shrug of the shoulders.

( As for Scap, let's not go off topic with conspiracy theory's of which their's not a shred of proof )

junder

SaoriseBiker wrote: »

junder wrote: »

Regardless of what 'street cred' they may or may not have by being lifted by the police they have been compromised, thier ablity to take part in clandestine operations has been restricted. Even in the days of PIRA, any pira member brought in by the police was generally retired and sent to El paso (Dundalk), that's providing they were able to convince the internal security unit (scap and his boys) that they had not let anything slip during interrogation

If been arrested or harassed by the police or Brits put IRA men into " retirment " as you put it, the IRA would have been defeated before 1916 If anything, they up their game. Been arrested by the police would be regarded as just an occupational hazzard by Republicans, they'd take it with a slight shrug of the shoulders.

( As for Scap, let's not go off topic with conspiracy theory's of which their's not a shred of proof )

There is no conspiracy theory about the ira's internal securty unit, you got interrogated by the police you then got interrogated by the internal securty unit if you didn't convince them you said nothing at best you went to Dundalk worse you ended up on a border road with a ventilated bin liner over your head. Why do you think Dundalk got the name el paso?

ColeTrain

Bambi wrote: »

Do me a favour and back up the assortment of allegations you've made there. Just to help you you've alleged:

the people who have been charged are criminals and terrorists, that's actually tautology but that's your problem. which would imply that they have been previously convicted os such offences. Proof of convictions please
they have also been convicted of theft. Proof of conviction please.
that you're privy to the details of whatever case the DPP have built

while you're at it, maybe you would like to deny that the offences against the state acts allow for a garda's opinion alone to suffice as proof of membership of a proscribed organisation.

off ya go.

He doesn't need to back up anything, He is representing the holier than thou brigade.

Shots fired over a coffin? What's the country coming to..

Laminations

ColeTrain wrote: »

He doesn't need to back up anything, He is representing the holier than thou brigade.

Shots fired over a coffin? What's the country coming to..

Are you serious? you're aware this thread is about RIRA?
It's not hard to claim you are holier than RIRA

This RIRA:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Real_Irish_Republican_Army_actions#_

Alan Ryan was a convicted terrorist and alleged leader of a RIRA faction. His brother Anthony is also a convicted terrorist and Vincent has attended rallies with them in the past. His family never distanced themselves from his activities and did not apologise for the paramilitary republican display at his funeral, which suggests they support that type of thing. The men were arrested on suspicion of membership of an illegal organisation - one which has been implicated in far more serious offences than firing a gun over a coffin. The arrests were made on the back of surveillance and evidence gathered in raids.

Trivialising paramilitary displays suggests to me you are sympathetic to their cause....and methods, like a few other people on this thread.

MagicSean

Bambi wrote: »

while you're at it, maybe you would like to deny that the offences against the state acts allow for a garda's opinion alone to suffice as proof of membership of a proscribed organisation.

Could you state the section you are referring to?

walshb

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In an ideal world, yes, but starting a battle in a residential area would have ended badly.

The sooner people stop supporting these illegitimate organisations the better. These ***** talk about sovereignty, yet blatantly ignored the laws Ireland.

Agreed. Had the Gardai acted there could well have been a bloodbath.

Ash.J.Williams

In all of this activity over the last two weeks, the statement from Kieran Doherty's family went unnoticed. Was alan involved in shooting him or did he make the phonecall luring him out ? It on record they were mates over the years from Portlaoise prison.
A simple google of the story shows that the RIRA brought in recruits from the republic to carry out the murder, combined with the "fearless volunteer" accolades heaped upon Alan Ryan, certainly makes it all suspicious.
Doherty's family have stated that Alan Ryan took the secrets of Kierans death to the grave.

NIMAN

Anyone who thinks that the Gardai should have ploughed in and tried to arrest the RIRA members during the funeral obviously haven't got a clue. Its very easy to say 'do this' and 'do that' but in the real world it wasn't a sensible thing to do, and would have resulted in a riot at a funeral.

The Gardai did the right thing imho, and arresting people after the event more sensible. In an ideal world yes people should be immediately arrested when they break the law, but its not always as simple as that.

They probably know all those involved, and hopefully will get them all behind bars in the longer term.

Red About Town

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

In all of this activity over the last two weeks, the statement from Kieran Doherty's family went unnoticed. Was alan involved in shooting him or did he make the phonecall luring him out ? It on record they were mates over the years from Portlaoise prison.
A simple google of the story shows that the RIRA brought in recruits from the republic to carry out the murder, combined with the "fearless volunteer" accolades heaped upon Alan Ryan, certainly makes it all suspicious.
Doherty's family have stated that Alan Ryan took the secrets of Kierans death to the grave.

Is there a link to this statement so I can read it?

Ash.J.Williams

Red About Town wrote: »

Is there a link to this statement so I can read it?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0907/1224323698020.html

Fitzerb

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that the Gardai should have ploughed in and tried to arrest the RIRA members during the funeral obviously haven't got a clue. Its very easy to say 'do this' and 'do that' but in the real world it wasn't a sensible thing to do, and would have resulted in a riot at a funeral.

The Gardai did the right thing imho, and arresting people after the event more sensible. In an ideal world yes people should be immediately arrested when they break the law, but its not always as simple as that.

They probably know all those involved, and hopefully will get them all behind bars in the longer term.

I think the Garda have proven over the years that they are more than capable of dealing with the para military organisations. What happened last week was minor compared to what was happening in the 80's and the State was in the main well protected by the Garda force. In my opinion they were right to wait until the dust had settled to make arrests. The RIRA are not republicans they are thugs who besmirch the names of Sands and Pearse

Red About Town

Fitzerb wrote: »

I think the Garda have proven over the years that they are more than capable of dealing with the para military organisations. What happened last week was minor compared to what was happening in the 80's and the State was in the main well protected by the Garda force. In my opinion they were right to wait until the dust had settled to make arrests. The RIRA are not republicans they are thugs who besmirch the names of Sands and Pearse

It's interesting to see Bobby Sands described in the same way as Pearse. I remember a time when Sands and his fellow travelers were described in the same way as the RIRA are today.

Fitzerb

Red About Town wrote: »

It's interesting to see Bobby Sands described in the same way as Pearse. I remember a time when Sands and his fellow travelers were described in the same way as the RIRA are today.

Is there any reason why I should not view them in the same light as they both made the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs. Both knew that the path they had chosen would lead to their deaths.

Red About Town

Fitzerb wrote: »

Is there any reason why I should not view them in the same light as they both made the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs. Both knew that the path they had chosen would lead to their deaths.

I would imagine Alan Ryan's supporters feel the same about him.

Slurryface

Fitzerb wrote: »

Is there any reason why I should not view them in the same light as they both made the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs. Both knew that the path they had chosen would lead to their deaths.

And neither of them showed an ounce of remorse or consideration to the victims of their crimes.

FTA69

junder wrote: »

There is no conspiracy theory about the ira's internal securty unit, you got interrogated by the police you then got interrogated by the internal securty unit if you didn't convince them you said nothing at best you went to Dundalk worse you ended up on a border road with a ventilated bin liner over your head. Why do you think Dundalk got the name el paso?

What are you on about? Most Republican activists would have been arrested or hauled in for questioning by the time they were 16, if you think every time you were brought into the barracks you had to go to Dundalk then you're mistaken. Most Republicans would be living there by now if that was the case.