Ireland World Cup Bid for 2023 or 2027 - GAA coming on board...

liammur

Apart from Limerick, and maybe the odd glamour match in Dublin & Cork, would the general public go to these matches...I think not.
Half empty stadia....forget it folks.

thomond2006

liammur wrote: »

Apart from Limerick, and maybe the odd glamour match in Dublin & Cork, would the general public go to these matches...I think not.
Half empty stadia....forget it folks.

Depends on tickets prices and the general economic situation, but I think people would go to games. It would be a once in a lifetime event for a lot of Irish people.

I'm obviously positively biased here but I'd like to think the general public would buy into it. The prices for the minnow vs minnow games were pretty cheap in NZ and that got bums on seats.

liammur

thomond2006 wrote: »

Depends on tickets prices and the general economic situation, but I think people would go to games. It would be a once in a lifetime event for a lot of Irish people.

I'm obviously positively biased here but I'd like to think the general public would buy into it. The prices for the minnow vs minnow games were pretty cheap in NZ and that got bums on seats.

Well you are right in 1 thing,,,tickets would certainly have to be cheap. Maybe rugby will grow over the intervening years, but at the moment I'd be fearful that we'd have small crowds.

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Depends on tickets prices and the general economic situation, but I think people would go to games. It would be a once in a lifetime event for a lot of Irish people.

I'm obviously positively biased here but I'd like to think the general public would buy into it. The prices for the minnow vs minnow games were pretty cheap in NZ and that got bums on seats.

In 2007 35k rugby fans showed up to see Portugal play Romania in Toulouse. We'd be lucky to get 3.5k I reckon.

Beery Eyed

liammur wrote: »

Apart from Limerick, and maybe the odd glamour match in Dublin & Cork, would the general public go to these matches...I think not.
Half empty stadia....forget it folks.

Hahahah! Yeah, you're dead right. Sure, you'd never get Irish people to go to anything.

I can't recall a single sporting or cultural event that people from this country collectively got behind and made it into an infinitely better event because of the support it received. Either at home or abroad. Oh, wait... :rolleyes:

Ludicrous comment

Podge_irl

Beery Eyed wrote: »

Hahahah! Yeah, you're dead right. Sure, you'd never get Irish people to go to anything.

I can't recall a single sporting or cultural event that people from this country collectively got behind and made it into an infinitely better event because of the support it received. Either at home or abroad. Oh, wait... :rolleyes:

Ludicrous comment

There has never been a sporting event in Ireland between Romania and Georgia so its hardly ludicrous to suspect people may not travel in droves to support it.

CatFromHue

Podge_irl wrote: »

There has never been a sporting event in Ireland between Romania and Georgia so its hardly ludicrous to suspect people may not travel in droves to support it.

According to this http://rugby-365.blogspot.ie/1999/10/romania-27-united-states-25.html 3000 went to see Romania play the US in Lansdowne in 1999. They also say there were full houses in Thomond and Ravenhill for the Oz v Romania and Oz v US games.

Rugby had a very different place in Ireland back then. Neither Munster nor Ireland had gone on their successful runs and only Ulster had brought the HEC to national attention.

Beery Eyed

Rugby has certainly come a long, long way in Ireland since those matches back in 1999, as has the RWC. However, even more importantly, I would argue that the biggest difference between this time around and the games that were hosted here in the past is that this is a primarily Irish bid, rather than a couple of games being held here as part of a primarily Welsh/English bid.

Even leaving aside the increased popularity of rugby, more importantly it gives the whole country, not just the existing rugby fans, the opportunity to be involved in hosting a world event. I could go through many events in the past that would highlight my point to various degrees, but I think only two are needed.

The first: In 2003 the International Special Olympics Committee took the decision to host the event outside of the US for the first time. Despite doubts about our ability to host such a large event, the following weeks saw around 30,000 volunteers throughout the country helping create an incredible event across 18 disciplines for 7,000 athletes, along with their families, friends, supporters, and associated staff.

The second: Three years later in 2006, Kildare was the destination for around 260,000 attendees during the week of the Ryder Cup at the K Club (Not far off double the figure that attended the event 4 years earlier when it was held in the UK at the Belfry). Again, despite critics voicing doubts about our ability to host a successful event of this scale, the 2006 Ryder Cup was one of the most memorable & highly regarded tournaments in its long & illustrious history among players, supporters & pundits alike.

As a nation we tend to underestimate our ability to be truly world class in a lot of areas. However, when it comes to sporting events, whether it is in Ireland, or even on the other side of the world, we have seen again and again that there is no other group that can create an atmosphere and spark an event into life like Irish supporters can. An event of this scale, with full ownership across the Island of Ireland, would be something to behold.

GerM

Beery Eyed wrote: »

Hahahah! Yeah, you're dead right. Sure, you'd never get Irish people to go to anything.

I can't recall a single sporting or cultural event that people from this country collectively got behind and made it into an infinitely better event because of the support it received. Either at home or abroad. Oh, wait... :rolleyes:

Ludicrous comment

We are event junkies. If it grabs public imagination and is well priced, it will be well supported. A WC pool game in October is going to be a tough sell in non rugby areas. We struggle to sell out some Irish games and the GAA summer championships often are played in half empty stadia. Far from ludicrous to think we might not sell out the majority of games. Nearly every WC has had games played in half empty grounds with the possible exception of 2007.

Larbre34

Podge_irl wrote: »

There has never been a sporting event in Ireland between Romania and Georgia so its hardly ludicrous to suspect people may not travel in droves to support it.

It is ludicrous, Irish fans would pick up tickets to go and see a match like that abroad if they were at a World Cup and found themselves with a free day, theyll certainly go at home if its on in their home town. Its like the Olympics, the Brits love their sport and came out in unexpected numbers to support the games, it would be similar here for a RWC, especially after 7 or 8 years of anticipation

The non-glamour ties of a World Cup could be very successfully promoted to schools, rugby club days out, people living in Ireland with ties to one or other of the countries in the game. It would just take a bit of imagination and promotion

bamboozle

the non-glamour ties i'd have in the smaller venues - Sports ground in Galway, RDS, Dubray park in Athlone, Musgrave - price tickets cheaply focusing on offers for brining kids along - as a nation of event junkies we'd fill the smaller stadia. You wouldnt need to worry as much about accommodation for these games as the majority in attendence would be locals.

as for the training facilites for the competing nations, i think we'd be fine. In years gone by Italy have stayed in the Clontarf Castle and trained in Clontarf rugby club, other teams have stayed in the marriot ashbourne and trained at ashbourne RC, the grand malahide and malahide RC would be another good location. the countrys small enough that the teams can be based 90 minutes away from a stadium.

There are some excellent club facilities around the country at the moment (Malahide & Ashbourne spring to mind) they just need to be twinned up with a decent local hotel.

jm08

GerM wrote: »

We are event junkies. If it grabs public imagination and is well priced, it will be well supported. A WC pool game in October is going to be a tough sell in non rugby areas. We struggle to sell out some Irish games and the GAA summer championships often are played in half empty stadia. Far from ludicrous to think we might not sell out the majority of games. Nearly every WC has had games played in half empty grounds with the possible exception of 2007.

So, all you need to be is clever about where certain matches are staged and how the tickets are sold. For instance, put the likes of Samoa v. Namibia in the RDS and offer Leinster season ticket holders tickets for free (which is probably what the French did for some of their less attractive matches in '07). Have a similar arrangement for Ravenhill & Thomond Park for a few of the others. Its only when the smaller teams with no home following will you have difficulties selling tickets. You could also do a group package of throwing in a free ticket to one of these games if you purchase tickets to 3 other matches.

As for the attendance at the GAA matches - two of the most sparsely populated counties in Ireland had about 60K in Croke Park last Sunday (well over 1+ hour driving for many of them).

Winters

I would actually have more faith in the attendances at small games and would allocate them to Ravenhill, RDS, Musgrave Park, Thomond Park and perhaps Fitzgerald Park in Killarney.

All the games involving the 6N and RC teams would then take place in Casement Park, Croke Park & Lansdowne Road, New Cork Stadium, Gaelic Grounds and Pearse Stadium.

Would the likes of Belfast, Dublin, Cork/Killarney and Limerick/Galway be suitable to host 5 teams each I wonder?

connemara man

Beery Eyed wrote: »

Rugby has certainly come a long, long way in Ireland since those matches back in 1999, as has the RWC. However, even more importantly, I would argue that the biggest difference between this time around and the games that were hosted here in the past is that this is a primarily Irish bid, rather than a couple of games being held here as part of a primarily Welsh/English bid.

Even leaving aside the increased popularity of rugby, more importantly it gives the whole country, not just the existing rugby fans, the opportunity to be involved in hosting a world event. I could go through many events in the past that would highlight my point to various degrees, but I think only two are needed.

The first: In 2003 the International Special Olympics Committee took the decision to host the event outside of the US for the first time. Despite doubts about our ability to host such a large event, the following weeks saw around 30,000 volunteers throughout the country helping create an incredible event across 18 disciplines for 7,000 athletes, along with their families, friends, supporters, and associated staff.

The second: Three years later in 2006, Kildare was the destination for around 260,000 attendees during the week of the Ryder Cup at the K Club (Not far off double the figure that attended the event 4 years earlier when it was held in the UK at the Belfry). Again, despite critics voicing doubts about our ability to host a successful event of this scale, the 2006 Ryder Cup was one of the most memorable & highly regarded tournaments in its long & illustrious history among players, supporters & pundits alike.

As a nation we tend to underestimate our ability to be truly world class in a lot of areas. However, when it comes to sporting events, whether it is in Ireland, or even on the other side of the world, we have seen again and again that there is no other group that can create an atmosphere and spark an event into life like Irish supporters can. An event of this scale, with full ownership across the Island of Ireland, would be something to behold.

Send this to the IRFU to use in their pitch. The Irish peoples ability to get behind an event is well documented, and an event of this magnitude would be welcomed and supported by the majority of people in the country. Apart from upgrading stands we would also need better caravan parks with facilities for the people that travel over and around by caravan. With so much time before it would start I don't see a good reason not to bid for it.

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

There has never been a sporting event in Ireland between Romania and Georgia so its hardly ludicrous to suspect people may not travel in droves to support it.

Erm, yes there has.

There was a three-way qualifying group for the 1999 World Cup involving Ireland, Romania and Georgia; all the games were played here.

bamboozle

next year we've 2 rugby events which may be used to guage the irish public's interest

The HC final, if an irish province makes the final tickets are going to be rarer than hens teeth (thankfully i've bought my 2) even if an irish team doesnt make the final i would still expect a full house.

as for the amlin cup final the next day, organisers gave HC final ticker purchers the option of buying tickets for the Amlin cup final, once again if an irish team makes the final - full house guaranteed. if they dont i'm still sure the RDS as a smaller venue will be packed to the rafters.

Irish people = event junkies

Podge_irl

totallegend wrote: »

Erm, yes there has.

There was a three-way qualifying group for the 1999 World Cup involving Ireland, Romania and Georgia; all the games were played here.

Feck off with your facts.

totallegend

Podge_irl wrote: »

Feck off with your facts.

Mindless pedantry 1; rational discussion 0

Back of the net!

overshoot

bamboozle wrote: »

next year we've 2 rugby events which may be used to guage the irish public's interest

The HC final, if an irish province makes the final tickets are going to be rarer than hens teeth (thankfully i've bought my 2) even if an irish team doesnt make the final i would still expect a full house.

Irish people = event junkies

not sure about the amlin but hasnt all the public sale tickets for the h cup been sold already... as in about 2 days after they went on sale?

last statement in full agreement with tho!

GerM

Beery Eyed wrote: »

Even leaving aside the increased popularity of rugby, more importantly it gives the whole country, not just the existing rugby fans, the opportunity to be involved in hosting a world event. I could go through many events in the past that would highlight my point to various degrees, but I think only two are needed.

The first: In 2003 the International Special Olympics Committee took the decision to host the event outside of the US for the first time. Despite doubts about our ability to host such a large event, the following weeks saw around 30,000 volunteers throughout the country helping create an incredible event across 18 disciplines for 7,000 athletes, along with their families, friends, supporters, and associated staff.

The second: Three years later in 2006, Kildare was the destination for around 260,000 attendees during the week of the Ryder Cup at the K Club (Not far off double the figure that attended the event 4 years earlier when it was held in the UK at the Belfry). Again, despite critics voicing doubts about our ability to host a successful event of this scale, the 2006 Ryder Cup was one of the most memorable & highly regarded tournaments in its long & illustrious history among players, supporters & pundits alike.

The special Olympics was a fantastic event and huge praise must go to the organisers. It was a huge credit to the country. However, the actual events were in small arenas around the place and have little relevance to possible attendances for a RWC. The athletics was in Morton Stadium with a capacity of 4,000 (I'm not sure how many people actually attended the stadium). The Ryder Cup is a short tournament over 3 days in one location with a long history and the very best from the two dominating continents in the game facing off. It's a spectators dream. People fly in from all over the world in large numbers paying huge amounts to be there. It's not comparable to a month long event spread around a country.

More relevant are events that take place in this country in the Lansdowne and GAA stadia around the country. We failed to fill Lansdowne last year for the Europa League final. We've failed to fill our home grounds for both rugby and soccer internationals on multiple occasions over the past 5 years. A quick look at the GAA attendances show that most of the games are played in front of a large percentage of empty space. The Kerry match against big rivals Tyrone only filled approximately half their local ground in Killarney.

There's little evidence to suggest that, big games aside, we'll fill the large grounds we're proposing. We've a history of not filling similar events in our own country with the figures there to see. We should absolutely try to host it and are well able to but we need to spend a lot of time thinking about how to make it as attractive (and cheap) as possible because, as it stands, there would be a large proportion of empty seats in a wet October for a lot of games on weekdays (which is when about 40% of pool games take place).

nudger

Seb Coe was a great pick as chairman for the Olympics in the UK.

So who would you like to have for the Irish RWC?

tolosenc

Seb Coe.

duckysauce

overshoot wrote: »

not sure about the amlin but hasnt all the public sale tickets for the h cup been sold already... as in about 2 days after they went on sale?

last statement in full agreement with tho!

Yep they sold out in no time and we do not know if an Irish team is in it, that says alot , I do not think filling stadiums will be a problem if the price is right. And a huge amount of peolpe from the 6n will travel here for each of their pool games , same as a huge amount of people from Ireland will go over to the next WC in blighty for pool and other major games.

duckysauce

nudger wrote: »

Seb Coe was a great pick as chairman for the Olympics in the UK.

So who would you like to have for the Irish RWC?

Ciaran Fitzgerald

Rovi

duckysauce wrote: »

Ciaran Fitzgerald

I was just thinking that!

Campaign slogan: "Where's your ****ing pride?"

tomflynn

tolosenc wrote: »

Croke Park was overwhelming funded by the taxpayer. Whatever about other stadia in GAA hands, it's a disgrace that fundamentally racist policies like Rule 42 are allowed to be applied to what should be a public ammenity.

All GAA stadiums are privately owned and often (as in case of other sports) are offered a capital grant subsidy for development - i.e. Croke Park redevelopment was subsidised by taxpayer to tune of €114m or 44% of total cost (€260m total cost).

Lansdowne Road development received a subsidy of €191m or 52% of its €365m cost. This is also a private stadium (not public) owned by the stadium company (FAI plus IRFU; although the land under the stadium is owned by IRFU).

DivingBoard wrote: »

As much as I would love to see Ireland host the RWC 2023 I think its far beyond the means of the country at the moment... and here's why. (Sorry in advance for some boring stats)
- 133,200 people visited New Zealand for the RWC 2011
Now a lot of people are worrying about the capacity of our stadia. Sorry but that’s not the main concern at all. We have plenty of stadia (thank you GAA) to accommodate the RWC. Our infrastructure is the main concern.

As it stands will our rail network handle the increase? No. Will our road network handle the increase? No.
Will the accommodation available handle the increase? No.
Is it worth spending half a billion to upgrade our country to accommodate this 2 month increase? Well, in reality, no.

I think there are a number of concerns; but I believe these can be overcome.

Firstly, stadia infrastructure.
In general the rugby stadia lack capacity, but have good bar/catering facilities, the GAA stadia have capacity but lack the latter.

The GAA stadia proposed ('new' PUiC Cork; Fitzgerald Killarney; Gaelic Grounds Limerick; Pearse Galway; 'new' Casement, Belfast; Croke Park; are, in general, designed to cope with Irish day-trippers attending a match event.
The new P Ui C, Cork and new Casement, Belfast may (when built) be more modern in design, but will still be designed to cater for the bread and butter GAA events, rather than a (potential) one-off international event. The main concerns regarding GAA stadia are non-capacity related, and would be:

• Lack of food concession areas,
• Lack of media facilities (for a multinational press corp),
• Lack of floodlights in at least 3 venues noted above (minor issue at this point).

The GAA recently undertook a safety audit of its stadia and significant investment is underway inproving access, terracing etc. However some of the older stadia require investment to moderise stands/terracing not to enhance capacity but particularly in terms of catering, media facilities, toilet facilities.

I think further imvestment in Ravenhill and RDS will provide these type of non-playing amenities.

Obviously the most modern and recently completed stadia i.e. Thomond Park, Croke Park and Aviva are up-to-stratch.

The other most recently improved stadium in Thurles does not have the infrastrucural capacity to cope with non-day-trippers i.e insufficiently developed visitor accomodation in the town and surrounding rural hinterland.

Secondly transport infrastructure
The non-Dublin inter-regional infrastructure is poor, although improvements are planned irrespective of any rugby bid. The new M17/M18 ('commencing' 2013) will link Limerick and Galway. However, there is poor linkage between Limerick and Cork (N20) and adequate (but improving) links between Limerick and Killarney (N21); also terrible road alignment (N22) between Cork and Killarney. The main shorter inter-regional road link from Belfast off M1 at Dundalk to Galway/Limerick via N52 has areas of very poor alignment but is improving north of M4/M6.
Strategic Road improvement priorities w.r.t. bid:

• N20 Cork-Limerick
• N21 Limerick-Killarney
• N22 Cork-Killarney
• N52 Dundalk-Nenagh

Rail network has sufficient carriage capacity but lacks speed and hence frequency of service. A speed improvement programme would be desirable from an economy perspective and the most likely capital investment considering the massive investment in train stock over the last 10 years.
Considering the intention to inlude 3 Dublin stadia and the proximity of Aviva and RDS, the main concern would be capacity of Dublin public transport particularly the Dart and Luas, however match scheduling of the 3 Dublin venues would have to take this into account.

The other main concern would be public transport access to/from the regional airports at Cork, Shannon and Kerry which would likely be the main access points outside of Dublin and Belfast, bearing in mind there would be nearly equivalent stadia capacity in Cork (1), Limerick (2) and Galway (1) as in the 3 Dublin stadia.

Given the city-destinations chosen, hotel accomodation should be capable of coping. Killarney is the only potential non-city host but is one of the primary tourist destinations and with largest hotel bed supply of any Irish town. However, for Limerick, city infrastructure and accomodation may be a concern if match scheduling was not carefully managed with 2 stadia within 1km of each other.

great post

[Jackass]

Whilst the above is all well and good, the main oversight is that Ireland is a tiny Island, with the far corners (Belfast, Limerick, Cork and Galway) ranging between 90 minutes to 2 and a half hours from the capital.

Considering there were drives of up to 12 hours between games in New Zealand and flights to cross over Islands, the distance issue is mostly irrelivant, so basically, any of the 10's of thousands of hotel rooms, thousands of B&Bs, thousands of holiday homes etc. are all well within reach of any of the venues around the country.

A base in London would also be closer than the distance travelled by many in NZ.

As for rail connections, we have very good rail connections around the country and could easily be boosted for the championships, and our road connections are actually quite good for the size of our Island, with regional developments going on all the time, there is absolutely zero doubt what so ever that our infrastructure is more than capabale of hosting an event of this magnitude.

Car rental and coach companies are mostly global names also, who would undoubtedly tripple their fleet on the island by bringing cars over from UK to fill demand, as driving distances are so short, that I don't think there would be any stress on our rail networks, we also have many regional airports and with airlines the size of Ryan Air with a massive fleet, if the demand was there, I don't doubt Michael O'Leary would put flights to and from regional airports leaving on the hour every hour if it was required (and therefore made him money).

The only concern for me would be, as you pointed out, the quality of facilities at some of the GAA stadia.

[Jackass]

[Jackass] wrote: »

Considering there were drives of up to 12 hours between games in New Zealand and flights to cross over Islands, the distance issue is mostly irrelivant, so basically, any of the 10's of thousands of hotel rooms, thousands of B&Bs, thousands of holiday homes etc. are all well within reach of any of the venues around the country.

It is in it's hole.

Consider what happens to the people coming to see the game in Waterford on a Friday evening if you have 40k people in Dublin, 28k in Limerick for a game on a Saturday, and 22k people in Galway and 28,500 in Belfast for a game on the Sunday.

You can't just ship people around the country to the available beds. They need to be resource-able. People wont be happy at the idea of going to a game that finishes at 8pm, and spending 2.5 hours driving (lets be fair, trying to leave a game adds an hour) a rental car to get to Mullingar to check into their B&B. Not a pint to be had, unfamiliar roads, the expense of renting a car, dislocation from other supporters etc.

Look at the success of Poznan as an Irish "base" this summer. You need to repeat those kind of scenes in order to keep the atmosphere pumping, and the World Cup a viable option for overseas visitors.

The stadiums need to be close to hubs that can support varied groups of peoples. Stadiums near Hotels, near Bars, near transport and infrastructure. I think that these stadiums and features are potentially available to us with some work, but to say that the current situation is tenable and the issues above are irrelevant is simple wrong.

Foxtrol

People are ingenuitive and will find places to stay so I think people are getting stuck up on hotel numbers. The amount of supporters who stayed in camper vans / tents for the NZ WC and European Championships were massive. For the Leinster HC final in Cardiff a rugby club sold out of space for people to camp on their land. Between those options, day trippers from other countries and the likelihood that you'd see a lot of short term rental property coming on the market for those few weeks I cant see there being that much of an issue.