Ireland World Cup Bid for 2023 or 2027 - GAA coming on board...

GerM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Don't think you can compare it to NZ 2011 and say we match up. Its generally accepted that NZ was a fairly crap bid and they pulled in every favour they had in order to get it over the line. Going further back to 1999 and 6K stadiums and thinking its somehow relevant is madness.

England 2015 and Japan 2019 bids are a better comparison as to what is expected going forward, 6 or 7 stadia with 45,000+ capacity. The sort of thing which our potentials rivals for the bid like South Africa, Italy and USA/Canada could provide.

The point of including stadiums such as Galashiels was to highlight the use of stadiums that would be suitable for the teams involved. The put them in a small ground in a strong rugby area which was subsequently filled rather than putting them in Murrayfield and having them play in front of an empty stadium. They did the same with Stradey, Ravenhill and Welford Road in that tournament. You cut your cloth to measure. By the looks of the potential Irish bid, we could be looking at second tier sides playing in massive GAA grounds in places like Galway and Killarney which would be totally unsuited to the event even allowing for any level of increase in popularity.

I'm hoping Japan's hosting goes well but looking at their stadia, I'm dubious as to their ability to draw crowds relative to their capacity. Rugby is growing there but unless there's an explosion over the next 5 years (and there's no indication there is going to be), we'll be watching half empty stadiums there for a good number of games. France did the best job by far in my opinion, using very strong rugby areas in the south to host the tournament instead of bigger options elsewhere.

The bids won't necessarily be about size but about the ability to host the tournament and showcase the game. No country aside from France has ever hosted the tournament without a number of smaller grounds. The RDS and Ravenhill will fulfill this purpose but I can still see large empty areas for the likes of Argentina, Italy, South Africa etc. in the bigger grounds.

[Jackass]

OldRio wrote: »

2023.
2027.
Just one thought comes to my mind.
Will OAP tickets be cheaper ?

Sadly, they're the soonest slots available, with the world cup hosts already decided up to 2019 already.

It's not uncommon though for these decisions to be made well in advance of hosting the competition and it may well be 2019 before the 2023 and 2027 hosts are chosen (as they usually do them in lots of two and just announced host nations recently).

It is a long way off, but that's not entirely a bad thing. With the rate rugby has been progressing in this country, facilities by then could be vastly superior to what they are now.

It also gives enough time for us to wait out Ronan O'Gara, who'll be pushing it to make the 2027 one anyway, but with Deccie probably still the coach by then, it's impossible to say that ROG definitely wont be in the squad. :pac:

jm08

[Jackass] wrote: »

It also gives enough time for us to wait out Ronan O'Gara, who'll be pushing it to make the 2027 one anyway, but with Deccie probably still the coach by then, it's impossible to say that ROG definitely wont be in the squad. :pac:

ROG will probably be Ireland head coach by 2027 :pac:

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

ROG will probably be Ireland head coach by 2027 :pac:

you mean he'll be the Head of Better than International Standard Performance.

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

you mean he'll be the Head of Better than International Standard Performance.

Didn't think strength & conditioning was ROG's thing (though I believe the IRFU have a vacancy there at the moment).:)

TheGoldenAges

Hope you lads enjoyed the summer break, just want to remind everyone that the Kidney clock has been counting down http://kidneyclock.net/

duckysauce

jm08 wrote: »

Didn't think strength & conditioning was ROG's thing (though I believe the IRFU have a vacancy there at the moment).:)

ahh come on it's about Ireland getting the world cup bid .

.ak

duckysauce wrote: »

ahh come on it's about Ireland getting the world cup bid .

Indeed. Back on topic everyone.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Didn't think strength & conditioning was ROG's thing (though I believe the IRFU have a vacancy there at the moment).:)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/rog-we-havent-won-enough-188518.html

I know that I’m still performing above the standard of international rugby. I’ll be retired long enough

please stop pretending this wasn't what he meant. You've done it at least 5 times when presented with the joke.

adieu

desertcircus

NZ isn't the comparison point we should be looking at; that was a one-off done before the tournament got too big to be held there. 2007, 2015 and 2019 are what we need to measure against, and on that basis we don't have a hope. We simply don't have the stadia or the infrastructure, and to be honest, we shouldn't. I hate to put a downer on proceedings, but there are dozens of better ways of spending that kind of money. More funding for Connacht. An Irish sevens team. Increased coaching support for clubs and schools outside the strongholds. And that's before we think about other things an Irish government should be spending money on.

tolosenc

Plus, they should give it to Italy.

irishbucsfan

tolosenc wrote: »

Plus, they should give it to Italy.

A rugby world cup based in a country where the vast majority of the people have absolutely no interest would be a real waste. It would be like USA'94 times 1000. USA 94,000.

bamboozle

this would be great if it was pulled off, in reality with Croker, Aviva, Thomand, Ravenhill and RDS we've enough 'big stadia' if we include one or two large provincial GAA stadia, we'd then only need another few with capacities of 12-20k to cover the smaller pool games.

One thing to note though is that given the amount of South Africas, Australians and Kiwis living in the NH i'd say match attendences would be quiet high, also reckon us Irish would turn up in huge numbers.

Transportation links should be all right, Dublin, Cork, Shannon, Belfast, Kerry, Waterford, Knock airports plus the ferries into Larne, Dublin, Rosslare and Cork.

Biggest issue might be hotel beds in some areas but i guess that's where B&B's etc would kick in.

Huge opportunity to bring in a huge amount of well heeled tourists while also giving the courtries tourism huge exposure over the tv.

DivingBoard

As much as I would love to see Ireland host the RWC 2023 I think its far beyond the means of the country at the moment... and here's why. (Sorry in advance for some boring stats)

- 133,200 people visited New Zealand for the RWC 2011

Of this, approximately:
- 55,000 were from Australia
- 19,000 were from UK
- 11,000 were from France
- 9,000 were from South Africa
- 6,000 were from USA
- 4,500 were from our Emerald Isle

The remaining was made up of the rest of the world.

Okay, now consider this. New Zealand's nearest country is Australia, a "mere" 4 - 10 hour flight depending on where you're going to/leaving from. 55K took on this trip.

Keeping that in mind I want to point out some statistics from Failte Ireland. Ireland receives about 6 millions visitors every year.

The top visitors are:
- UK @ 2.6 million
- Mainland Europe @ 2.1 million (France & Italy making up approx. 800K of this)
- USA @ 900K
- Australia/NZ/Other Oceania @ 130K

We have a particularly fruitful tourist industry and among many other reasons to accredit this to (such as being perceived as “good craic” by other nations) as far a small islands go we’re relatively easy to get to. Now a lot of people are worrying about the capacity of our stadia. Sorry but that’s not the main concern at all. We have plenty of stadia (thank you GAA) to accommodate the RWC. Our infrastructure is the main concern.

So back to the 133,200 people that visited New Zealand. Let’s say the same amount of fans decided to turn up on our doorstep in 2023. Could we handle it? Maybe. But lets be more realistic about it. I’d say thanks to our close proximity to so many other rugby nations at the very least you could double that figure, if not more. As it stands will our rail network handle the increase? No. Will our road network handle the increase? No. Will the accommodation available handle the increase? No. Is it worth spending half a billion to upgrade our country to accommodate this 2 month increase? Well, in reality, no.

As much as I would love to see the RWC here, we can’t afford it. As per Mastercards Economic Impact Report on Global Rugby 2011, the popularity of Rugby around the globe has increased by 22% between 2007 and 2011. This is expected to continue to increase, aided by the addition of Rugby Sevens to the 2016 Olympics. England is to host RWC 2015. If London 2012 was anything to go by, RWC 2015 is going to be a serious event. For all we know rugby could twice as popular by 2023.

It’s a great time to be a rugby fan and we can always dream. However, and most unfortunately, for the moment I think this dream is probably best staying as such.

Sure could you only image the bedlam that would ensue if it rained??

case885

Diamondmaker wrote: »

1st post in Donkeys Years ! But as one who attended the RWC in NZ and France I can see Ireland working.

We have better and way more, hotels than NZ, better roads and rail netork also. Euro fights and internal flights far cheaper and more options also.

Less NH supporters travelled to NZ due to cost / distance. Not an issue in an Irish bid.

6N teams would base at home and fly in, as would the fans and the further afield teams would come in and tour. Ireland is a great size country for an event like the RWC where you dont have to worry about segregating fans one from the other.

None of the 4 NZ stadia I visited on North Island is superior to an Irish equivilant.

Its far enough away that any of the issues we do have could be resolved.

Only question is who would we be up against ? We could topple the Welsh and Scots....US or Canada be up for this one >??

WOudl be great to go home for a RWC with the little fella

argentina are looking to host a rugby world cup, they would probably be our biggest rivals as they are a great rugby nation and have never hosted a rugby world cup..
Also they have stadia to host it

GerM

I don’t think infrastructure is as far off as thought. The roads between major cities in Ireland aren’t that bad any longer. All the cities are linked to Dublin, which will be the entry point for the vast majority of people, by excellent motorways. Galway, Waterford, Cork, Limerick and Belfast all have superb roads into them. Each of these cities have hosted major events in the past that have seen more people staying in the area than any match would generate such as the Jazz Festival, Galway Races, Ocean Race etc. I’m not sure where the idea that we don’t have enough hotels comes from. If there’s one thing we’re not short of, it’s hotels. There are airports with flights to the UK and European mainland from Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Shannon and Knock which should give plenty of options for those looking to fly directly into the areas. Our infrastructure is far from great but it’s certainly able to handle an influx of 30,000 people into a city and will improve if awarded the tournament.

The weather would be poxy though. October in Ireland with games in Kerry and Galway? Not for the fairweather supporters.

bamboozle

GerM wrote: »

I don’t think infrastructure is as far off as thought. The roads between major cities in Ireland aren’t that bad any longer. All the cities are linked to Dublin, which will be the entry point for the vast majority of people, by excellent motorways. Galway, Waterford, Cork, Limerick and Belfast all have superb roads into them. Each of these cities have hosted major events in the past that have seen more people staying in the area than any match would generate such as the Jazz Festival, Galway Races, Ocean Race etc. I’m not sure where the idea that we don’t have enough hotels comes from. If there’s one thing we’re not short of, it’s hotels. There are airports with flights to the UK and European mainland from Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Shannon and Knock which should give plenty of options for those looking to fly directly into the areas. Our infrastructure is far from great but it’s certainly able to handle an influx of 30,000 people into a city and will improve if awarded the tournament.

The weather would be poxy though. October in Ireland with games in Kerry and Galway? Not for the fairweather supporters.

what's more we have plenty of hotels attached to golf courses and i'd envisage 2 types of rugby fans attending a rugby world cup here. Those that will fly in and out for the day and night of the game and those that will stay for a few weeks, rent a car (or bring it over in the ferry) travel around the country taking in the sights and playing golf when the rugby is not on.

would be a good if we could aim to host the U20's world cup here soon.

tolosenc

irishbucsfan wrote: »

A rugby world cup based in a country where the vast majority of the people have absolutely no interest would be a real waste. It would be like USA'94 times 1000. USA 94,000.

They have sold out the San Siro and the Stadio Olimpico. The whole point would be to raise the profile of the sport there.

jm08

Diving Board - the 133K wouldn't have been there for the 5 weeks (or at the same time). Lots of Irish flew in from Australia for a day or two and considering how close Ireland is to the other 6Ns countries, I'd imagine that is what most of them would do.

If Cardiff can cope adequately with Heineken Cup finals in the Millenium Stadium (little accommodation and small airport) from Irish based supporters the cities mentioned in Ireland will be more than able to cope with large numbers spread around the country for a few days.

When it comes to the finals in Dublin (similar to what would have been needed for the Ryder Cup who had 260K over that week), I don't see it as being much of a problem.

jm08

case885 wrote: »

argentina are looking to host a rugby world cup, they would probably be our biggest rivals as they are a great rugby nation and have never hosted a rugby world cup..
Also they have stadia to host it

Soccer is the big sport there - very little interest in rugby - they would be very dependent on people from other nations attending games.

Attendances at recent international games there are: France x 2 games, 23K & 20K and Italy 10K.

jm08

tolosenc wrote: »

They have sold out the San Siro and the Stadio Olimpico. The whole point would be to raise the profile of the sport there.

They are struggling to support two rugby teams. A major point of the world cup is to make enough money to fund developing nations.

CatFromHue

jm08 wrote: »

They are struggling to support two rugby teams. A major point of the world cup is to make enough money to fund developing nations.

I think a bidding nation pays the IRB a fee to host the tournament and then makes its money off ticket sales.

So as long as a country can sell alot of ticket sales they should/could in theory be able to host the comp.

Teferi

Learn to multiquote jm08.

tolosenc

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think a bidding nation pays the IRB a fee to host the tournament and then makes its money off ticket sales.

So as long as a country can sell alot of ticket sales they should/could in theory be able to host the comp.

Correct. Host country pays a fixed sum, anything over that is profit for hte hosts.

jacothelad

bamboozle wrote: »

what's more we have plenty of hotels attached to golf courses and i'd envisage 2 types of rugby fans attending a rugby world cup here. Those that will fly in and out for the day and night of the game and those that will stay for a few weeks, rent a car (or bring it over in the ferry) travel around the country taking in the sights and playing golf when the rugby is not on.

would be a good if we could aim to host the U20's world cup here soon.

We just did. 2009 I think.

jm08

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think a bidding nation pays the IRB a fee to host the tournament and then makes its money off ticket sales.

So as long as a country can sell alot of ticket sales they should/could in theory be able to host the comp.

Average attendance at Heineken games for Treviso is about 4K. Internationals (6Ns) are about 32K. They'd want to demonstrate that they could do better than that!

Teferi wrote: »

Learn to multiquote jm08.

Happy now?

tolosenc

jm08 wrote: »

Internationals (6Ns) are about 32K.

They had 126,054 aggregate home attendance in the 2012 Six Nations. So about 63,027 per game average, actually.

Madworld

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Don't think you can compare it to NZ 2011 and say we match up. Its generally accepted that NZ was a fairly crap bid and they pulled in every favour they had in order to get it over the line. Going further back to 1999 and 6K stadiums and thinking its somehow relevant is madness.

I think your underestimating the fact Ireland is a country of event junkies who will jump on every bandwagon going. IMO it is more than likely that most stadiums would be near enough full to capacity.

Ireland's lack of political power in the IRB and the fact we are no longer really considered a developing nation are two of the main factors which will more than likely hamper the bid.

CatFromHue

Madworld wrote: »

I think your underestimating the fact Ireland is a country of event junkies who will jump on every bandwagon going. IMO it is more than likely that most stadiums would be near enough full to capacity.

Ireland's lack of political power in the IRB and the fact we are no longer really considered a developing nation are two of the main factors which will more than likely hamper the bid.

I'm trying to think here but if my memory is right Lansdowne was two thirds to maybe three quarters full for the 1999 RWC QF between France and Argentina.

EDIT: 40000 went according to http://rugby-365.blogspot.ie/1999/10/argentina-26-france-47.html

Not sure how accurate that is

I think Thomond had a good attendance for Australia v USA in the pool stage, I wasn't at this though.

Ravenhill hosted Australia v Romania but I don't know how that was attended.

Rugby was a nowhere near as popular back then.

case885

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=skyscrapercity%202023&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fboardreader.com%2Fthread%2FWho_should_host_the_2023_World_Cup_i6euXpbs5.html&ei=xpoyUK7oBIrKhAeR3oBg&usg=AFQjCNEMqdYe0Al_Aiz5-ajuB0qPaWQSTA
these guys dont give Ireland much of a chance :mad: