Ireland World Cup Bid for 2023 or 2027 - GAA coming on board...

errlloyd

I wouldn't worry about the infrastructure at all, you guys have to be kidding. Dublin hosts GAA and Hurling finals every year where 100,000 people travel up for one day and the city hardly blinks, Galway has the same with the racing. The little town of crosshaven in cork had a sailing event with 10,000 a year. Dublin has about 400,000 hotel beds, like Poland put the vastly more demanding euros in Poznan!! Even better the whole country is ****ing tiny compared to any other bidders, and Dublin is centralised. It'd be easy to move around and follow your team. Crokers, Aviva and TP would burden the big games, but the small stadia would probably be well sized for lower tiers.

I also think it would be good for developing nations, there are probably 10,000 US tourists in Ireland in September who would go to a few games, there is a huge Romanian community, spain and portugal are piss cheap flights away.

Rugby is on the up, seriously, this might be our last chance to host one. Stop doubting it, I am behind this bid all the way.

DivingBoard

errlloyd wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about the infrastructure at all, you guys have to be kidding. Dublin hosts GAA and Hurling finals every year where 100,000 people travel up for one day and the city hardly blinks, Galway has the same with the racing. The little town of crosshaven in cork had a sailing event with 10,000 a year. Dublin has about 400,000 hotel beds, like Poland put the vastly more demanding euros in Poznan!! Even better the whole country is ****ing tiny compared to any other bidders, and Dublin is centralised. It'd be easy to move around and follow your team. Crokers, Aviva and TP would burden the big games, but the small stadia would probably be well sized for lower tiers.

I also think it would be good for developing nations, there are probably 10,000 US tourists in Ireland in September who would go to a few games, there is a huge Romanian community, spain and portugal are piss cheap flights away.

Rugby is on the up, seriously, this might be our last chance to host one. Stop doubting it, I am behind this bid all the way.

You’re quite a long way off with your figures. 100,000 traveling fans coming to Dublin for a GAA final? Rare I would have thought.

Also – In 2009 (the most updated figures I could find) Ireland had 54,000 hotel rooms, not 400,000. A figure I’m sure has no doubt declined since, and will decline further in the coming years (Currently about 12% of hotels are owned by NAMA or foreignbanks.)

I’m just trying to be real here. I would love nothing more than a RWC in Ireland, I’m just not convinced we could cope. Look at public transport in Dublin as it is? I don’t think we go a week without some major delay on the Darts (Last week Darts were cancelled on the Northside of the city because of damage to the overhead line and then later that day cancelled on the Southside because of a fallen tree). All it takes is a bit of rain and the city centre and it’s buses come to a standstill too.

And lets not forget that the RWC would be in October, the wettest month we have at the moment. It’s been years since we got through it without some major flooding somewhere in the country.

errlloyd

DivingBoard wrote: »

errlloyd wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about the infrastructure at all, you guys have to be kidding. Dublin hosts GAA and Hurling finals every year where 100,000 people travel up for one day and the city hardly blinks, Galway has the same with the racing. The little town of crosshaven in cork had a sailing event with 10,000 a year. Dublin has about 400,000 hotel beds, like Poland put the vastly more demanding euros in Poznan!! Even better the whole country is ****ing tiny compared to any other bidders, and Dublin is centralised. It'd be easy to move around and follow your team. Crokers, Aviva and TP would burden the big games, but the small stadia would probably be well sized for lower tiers.

I also think it would be good for developing nations, there are probably 10,000 US tourists in Ireland in September who would go to a few games, there is a huge Romanian community, spain and portugal are piss cheap flights away.

Rugby is on the up, seriously, this might be our last chance to host one. Stop doubting it, I am behind this bid all the way.

You’re quite a long way off with your figures. 100,000 traveling fans coming to Dublin for a GAA final? Rare I would have thought.

Also – In 2009 (the most updated figures I could find) Ireland had 54,000 hotel rooms, not 400,000. A figure I’m sure has no doubt declined since, and will decline further in the coming years (Currently about 12% of hotels are owned by NAMA or foreignbanks.)

I’m just trying to be real here. I would love nothing more than a RWC in Ireland, I’m just not convinced we could cope. Look at public transport in Dublin as it is? I don’t think we go a week without some major delay on the Darts (Last week Darts were cancelled on the Northside of the city because of damage to the overhead line and then later that day cancelled on the Southside because of a fallen tree). All it takes is a bit of rain and the city centre and it’s buses come to a standstill too.

And lets not forget that the RWC would be in October, the wettest month we have at the moment. It’s been years since we got through it without some major flooding somewhere in the country.

Pretty sure we have more than 54,000 hotel rooms, Dublin alone gets 1,5mn tourists a year. You're not counting hostels, B&Bs and other bed spaces in those stats, but I assure you Dublin can cope. While October is wet, it's usually not extreme weather, so I wouldn't worry about darts really.

100,000 fans coming down for all Ireland Final weekends isn't unrealistic. Croke Park is normally full, that's 82,000 alone, nevermind those coming up for the craic.

Ireland is a world tourism capital, we have the infrastructure to handle 250,000 tourists in one month, I am pretty sure that's a standard July in Ireland.

bamboozle

DivingBoard wrote: »

You’re quite a long way off with your figures. 100,000 traveling fans coming to Dublin for a GAA final? Rare I would have thought.

Also – In 2009 (the most updated figures I could find) Ireland had 54,000 hotel rooms, not 400,000. A figure I’m sure has no doubt declined since, and will decline further in the coming years (Currently about 12% of hotels are owned by NAMA or foreignbanks.)

I’m just trying to be real here. I would love nothing more than a RWC in Ireland, I’m just not convinced we could cope. Look at public transport in Dublin as it is? I don’t think we go a week without some major delay on the Darts (Last week Darts were cancelled on the Northside of the city because of damage to the overhead line and then later that day cancelled on the Southside because of a fallen tree). All it takes is a bit of rain and the city centre and it’s buses come to a standstill too.

And lets not forget that the RWC would be in October, the wettest month we have at the moment. It’s been years since we got through it without some major flooding somewhere in the country.

on booking.com there are 1422 Irish hotels, i'm not sure what the average number of rooms would be per hotel though, but on top of that you need to add in B&B's, Hostels and private rented properties. Between them there'd be enough to accomodate the rugby tourists.

Public transport in Dublin is excellent and you'd expect there to be an increased focus on efficiency during the tournament if it was held. Between the Luas, Dart and Dublin Bus you'd have access from Greystones to Tallaght to Howth/Malahide.
Add in the diesel trains and Maynooth, Dundalk, Drogheda, Naas, Wicklow are accessable. Plus there's no shortage of taxi's around also.

A lot of the main matches would be at the weekends, when there is generally less traffic around the city.

irishbucsfan

You will see a lot of people flying in for games, particularly the Welsh, English, Scottish and French. And as with New Zealand, a lot of people hiring camper vans etc as they do for events like this.

We have more than enough space. I would certainly worry about our roads, which would be a disaster, but then again they said the roads in London would be a disaster and they were absolutely fine. If we can learn from them we might manage that part...

Thanks to the small nature of the country we don't need to have teams play all their matches in one area either. So if there are 3 matches per night we can spread them around the country. And the traffic for a single match is just not going to be anywhere near enough to bring the city to a standstill. Especially when you introduce dedicated supporters areas around stadiums and divert traffic. On top of that, Dublin could easilly handle 2 matches on the same night if it was needed thanks to the distance between Croke Park and the Aviva. Games for the minnows can be hosted in smaller stadia around the country.

I just wonder how much it would cost to bring our facilities up to standard.

Winters

With my Ireland hat on I think we could do it. Obviously there will be infrastructure improvements required in the shape of modern stadia in Belfast, Cork, Limerick and Galway. The M20 and M18 (Cork to Limerick to Galway) will need to be completed too. I would have concerns about the use of Semple Stadium given the small size of Thurles and lack of accommodation. Fine for day tripping GAA supporters but visiting rugby tourists are a different dynamic.

However with my rugby cap on I think the competition will be too big for us to host, especially after England 2015 and Japan 2019. Our proximity to England will probably rule us out of hosting in 2023 anyway. I also think that the likes of Argentina and Italy are better bets.

GerM

Semple Stadium isn't one of the 6 proposed grounds. They're CP, Fitzgerald, Pearse, Pairc Ui Caoimh, Gaelic Grounds and Casement Park. The one that sticks out there is Fitzgerald which is well away from the cities and has poor transport links.

jm08

GerM wrote: »

Semple Stadium isn't one of the 6 proposed grounds. They're CP, Fitzgerald, Pearse, Pairc Ui Caoimh, Gaelic Grounds and Casement Park. The one that sticks out there is Fitzgerald which is well away from the cities and has poor transport links.

Killarney has got a train station. It can cope with GAA match days and concerts (westlife!) and Killarney is well used to dealing with tourists. Farrenfore airport is close by. Its got plenty of top class accommodation. Could see a few teams basing themselves in Killarney and commuting elsewhere from there.

It also got refurbished in 2009:

Extension of terracing at Lewis Rd end as far as the stand. The terracing is designed in such a way as to allow its continuation along the stand side if and when the stand is upgraded.Spectators will enter new terracing through a tunnel at ground level or through stairways to the centre of the terrace.
There is also additional entrance/exit stairs to the old terracing at the rear of the Lewis Rd goal.
The new terracing will accommodate an additional 4,000 spectators bringing stadium capacity to 43,000. Further development will be undertaken to raise this to 50,000.
There are 4 large dressing rooms underneath the new terrace with individual showering and toilet facilities. Each player will have individual changing areas as in Croke Park.
There is also provision for medical and physio staff as well as a separate area for mentors.Players will now exit the dressing rooms via a tunnel.

GerM

Killarney has a train station but doesn't have a direct train to Dublin. It links to Cork and Tralee for ongoing journeys. Not too appealing. The roads are not good. It's 1h40m from Limerick and about 1h20m from Cork. Large chunk of both roads is single carriageway. The airport is more of a landing strip that welcomes about 4 flights a day. It sticks out badly in comparison to the other places.

It is probably better equipped than anywhere in terms of hotels but it would be a total pain for anyone to get to. Those going there for GAA or concerts generally live within the area. I'd rather see the location of our last stadium go somewhere like Derry which has it's own airport connected to the UK and mainland Europe and the revenue spread to the likes of Donegal.

jm08

Now Ger you know what 40K Kerrymen (approx). have been doing a couple of times every year in Aug/Sept to get up to Dublin - and they have coped with no direct trains!

Killarney is also the most visited tourist site in the country (Glendalough is 2nd - and thats not that accessible either but people manage to make the pilgrimage there).

1 hour 40 is nothing in travelling time - don't they have all week to get there. It would take that time to get to most major stadia in an big city like London or Paris.

You must be a Dub who rarely ventures outside of Dublin if you think Killarney or Thurles is inaccessible. Thurles used to do the Trip to Tipp weekend concert, Slane manages huge crowds and the K Club coped with 260K visitors in a week.

totallegend

Killarney is not an option for the RWC;
a) Crappy enough transport links
b) Hotels are expensive at the best of times
c) The ground is 80% (my estimate) standing so would need a lot of work
d) There would definitely be games in Cork and Limerick so the geographical spread would be a bit skewed in favour of the south-west.

GerM

Not at all, JM. I've spent about 12 days over the past month with work in Kerry and Cork. I travel around a fair bit and I'm speaking in relative terms to other places. Killarney is way behind other towns/cities for accessibility to a prolonged event. It's far from impossible but we want to give ticket sales the best opportunity possible. We're going to be looking at evening matches in the miserable rain and cold and need to make the locations as attractive as possible in terms of access. I'm sure if they did use Killarney, they'd do some work on the transport links to bring it up to standard. I'd much rather see the game brought to another area of the country. It's not like the local population are going to pack out the ground for a WC pool game.

Oh, and Kerry people don't bother their arse coming to Dublin unless it's the final!

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

Semple Stadium isn't one of the 6 proposed grounds. They're CP, Fitzgerald, Pearse, Pairc Ui Caoimh, Gaelic Grounds and Casement Park. The one that sticks out there is Fitzgerald which is well away from the cities and has poor transport links.

Just being lazy here Ger, can you point out where these are listed? Thought the statement from the GAA just referred to 'six stadia' but didn't name them

GerM

totallegend wrote: »

Just being lazy here Ger, can you point out where these are listed? Thought the statement from the GAA just referred to 'six stadia' but didn't name them

There was a spokesperson from the GAA on the RTE news the other night who listed the grounds. He actually only named 5 and listed the Gaelic Grounds twice but named Pearse, Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald, Pairc Ui Caoimh and Croke Park. Since then, I've seen Casement Park named in the list on a number of reports.

http://www.joe.ie/gaa/gaa-news/gaa-goes-for-rugby-world-cup-in-the-national-interest-0027726-1

irishbucsfan

I could definitely see teams staying in Killarney and training there.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

There was a spokesperson from the GAA on the RTE news the other night who listed the grounds. He actually only named 5 and listed the Gaelic Grounds twice but named Pearse, Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald, Pairc Ui Caoimh and Croke Park. Since then, I've seen Casement Park named in the list on a number of reports.

So, that would be three grounds in Dublin, two in Belfast, Limerick and Cork and one in Galway. I'd have thought they'd want more of a geographic spread going; Thurles instead of the Gaelic Grounds would fit that bill, or maybe Tullamore or Portlaoise for one of the minor games.

It would be very interesting to see how the locals would react to the low-profile games; I remember in Australia 2003, a big crowd turned up in Launceston, Tasmania to watch Namibia v Romania, similar scenes in places like Gosford and Townsville for other games. It's all just a question of hype and marketing (and ticket pricing).

irishbucsfan

Tickets were free for that game in Tasmania and they gave our bibs and things that were the same colour as the jerseys. It was an effort to create interest in Union is Tas, don't think it worked very well though!

Id love to see them try a ploy like that to suck in some young GAA fans and steal them forever!

DivingBoard

totallegend wrote: »

So, that would be three grounds in Dublin, two in Belfast, Limerick and Cork and one in Galway. I'd have thought they'd want more of a geographic spread going; Thurles instead of the Gaelic Grounds would fit that bill, or maybe Tullamore or Portlaoise for one of the minor games.

It would be very interesting to see how the locals would react to the low-profile games; I remember in Australia 2003, a big crowd turned up in Launceston, Tasmania to watch Namibia v Romania, similar scenes in places like Gosford and Townsville for other games. It's all just a question of hype and marketing (and ticket pricing).

Where in Thurles would you have people stay? Most travelling GAA fans I know don't stay the night, the town isn't built for that.

Not many pubs either if I remember correctly (I stand to be corrected).

DivingBoard

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Id love to see them try a ploy like that to suck in some young GAA fans and steal them forever!

As Joe Schmidt once said - All the best rugby players in Ireland are playing GAA!

GerM

DivingBoard wrote: »

Where in Thurles would you have people stay? Most travelling GAA fans I know don't stay the night, the town isn't built for that.

Not many pubs either if I remember correctly (I stand to be corrected).

There isn't anywhere to stay. Aside from being about 10km from the main Cork/Dublin motorway, there's little logic to having it there unless we're purely selecting on the basis of the stadium. There's one hotel I know of in the town. It's used for GAA games because it's a good stadium and is very central for all the hurling counties.

totallegend

DivingBoard wrote: »

Where in Thurles would you have people stay? Most travelling GAA fans I know don't stay the night, the town isn't built for that.

Not many pubs either if I remember correctly (I stand to be corrected).

Yeah, fair point, but I'm not talking about the practicalities or logistics, just the general principle that most world cups have seen the games spread out around the host country. Maybe Thurles is a bad example because it's a small town with a big stadium, but somewhere like Portlaoise (mid-size town, small stadium, close to Dublin, on the train line and motorway) could definitely host a game involving second or third tier teams.

case885

one thing i would like to know, i presume terraces will not be allowed? (im not too sure) will the stadiums have to be fitted with some temporary seating in this case??

phog

GerM wrote: »

There isn't anywhere to stay. Aside from being about 10km from the main Cork/Dublin motorway, there's little logic to having it there unless we're purely selecting on the basis of the stadium. There's one hotel I know of in the town. It's used for GAA games because it's a good stadium and is very central for all the hurling counties.

There are two hotels in the town, the Anner and Hayes, Horse & Jockey is about 15mins way, Kilkenny, Portlaoise are less than an hour with Cork and Limerick just over the hour.

I think using Thurles instead of the Gaelic Grounds would make sense from a spread of neutral supporters. I couldnt see the Gaelic Grounds and Thomond Park being full on the same night or even on consecutive nights unless you had a top tier country involved.

ArmaniJeanss

phog wrote: »

There are two hotels in the town, the Anner and Hayes, Horse & Jockey is about 15mins way, Kilkenny, Portlaoise are less than an hour with Cork and Limerick just over the hour.

I think using Thurles instead of the Gaelic Grounds would make sense from a spread of neutral supporters. I couldnt see the Gaelic Grounds and Thomond Park being full on the same night or even on consecutive nights unless you had a top tier country involved.

Are you not getting into 'really crap bid territory' if you are suggesting visiting fans stay in two bit villages like H&J, or travel 90 minutes back to Limerick at 10.30 in the evening after a game.
Like its all technically possible and probably no worse than the poor NZ bid for 2011, but going forward I suspect NZ will be seen as the last of its type.
Compared to a Capetown, Joburg, Pretoria, Durban, Port Liz, Bloemfontaine bid, or a Rome, Turin, Naples, Milan, Bari, Genoa bid, some of the suggestions for ours looks a bit like something out of Father Ted.

P_1

case885 wrote: »

one thing i would like to know, i presume terraces will not be allowed? (im not too sure) will the stadiums have to be fitted with some temporary seating in this case??

Terraces are most definitely still allowed (best part of the ground if you ask me). Now if they'll still be come 2023 is another matter.

phog

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Are you not getting into 'really crap bid territory' if you are suggesting visiting fans stay in two bit villages like H&J, or travel 90 minutes back to Limerick at 10.30 in the evening after a game.
Like its all technically possible and probably no worse than the poor NZ bid for 2011, but going forward I suspect NZ will be seen as the last of its type.Compared to a Capetown, Joburg, Pretoria, Durban, Port Liz, Bloemfontaine bid, or a Rome, Turin, Naples, Milan, Bari, Genoa bid, some of the suggestions for ours looks a bit like something out of Father Ted.

Are you suggeting that NZ will never host the WC again? I think you're hobbily wrong there.

desertcircus

I was under the impression that NZ got 2011 specifically because it was the last chance for them to do so...

GerM

phog wrote: »

Are you suggeting that NZ will never host the WC again? I think you're hobbily wrong there.

They could well host again but not in the same manner and not for at least 30 years. Some of the grounds were awful with people on grass mounds watching.

As for using Semple and basing people in towns an hour away, come on. That would be ridiculous.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

They could well host again but not in the same manner and not for at least 30 years. Some of the grounds were awful with people on grass mounds watching.

As for using Semple and basing people in towns an hour away, come on. That would be ridiculous.

More pertinent, there will be just no need for a stadium that size; if Croke Park, Aviva and either Gaelic Grounds or Pairc Ui Chaoimh are available, that's enough capacity for all the high-profile games. Adding Thurles to the mix will just mean a lot of empty seats.

Larbre34

What do we need for the bid?

Enough stadiums, hotels, training facilities, incoming air routes, internal transport links and activities to keep fans occupied on both on match day and in their down time. Check, on all counts

10 Stadiums: Croke Park, Lansdowne Road, Thomond Park, Fitzgerald Stadium, Pearse Stadium/Semple Stadium - and due for upgrading, RDS, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Ravenhill, Casement Park. Invercargill in New Zealand was an outpost venue of 12,000 capacity - any number of regional GAA grounds would be suitable. Id like to see McHale Park myself, and I suspect the Taoiseach and Minister Ring would be pushing it

All the seating installation, TV fit out, facility improvement and beautifying will be handled as part of the bid

Hotels: In 2009 there were 900 hotels with just under 60,000 rooms in Ireland. That excludes B&B, hostels and camping. Obviously that number has been hugely reduced with the recession and closures but by 2023 normal demand levels could see it return to that figure. Of course you couldnt have people staying in Wicklow for a game in Limerick but the big advantage Ireland has over New Zealand for example, is that the huge pool of Northern Hemisphere fans would be coming and going all the time, maybe on day-trips or by sea so you wouldnt need to hold so many fans on the island at once

Training Grounds: 20 teams needing a training base in September/October. Its an ideal time to do it. Pitches are at their best at that time of year and between Universities, ITs and colleges as well as good secondary schools and bigger rugby clubs, there is more than enough locations with the necessary facilities to offer pitches and gyms. 3 or 4 hotels have developed specialist training campuses also. Any additional requirements could be added as part of the bid. The 6 nations teams will probably train at home and only travel for the games anyway

Air routes: As well as frequent connections to Europe and the hub airports like Heathrow, Frankfurt, CDG and Amsterdam, Ireland has perhaps the most spare capacity for traffic at its airports of any EU country. Dublin, Shannon, Cork and Ireland West Knock could handle a huge bulge of charters and temporary scheduling.

Internal Transport: Rail is poor, but there are decent road connections between all of the proposed venues, via Dublin at any rate, and traffic volumes are very low outside City rush hours. Its not like every venue will be holding a game every day. Proper tendering and fleet planning will deal with this requirement. After all, a number of Irish companies won tenders to send fleets of coaches to London for the Olympics so the expertise and professionalism is there.

Activities: For those fans staying over a long period, there is always plenty to do in Ireland. The recent example of the Volvo Ocean Race at Galway and this weekends Tall Ships shows the will is there to set up huge showcases for Irish produce, business and culture on the back of major sporting events. Venues all over the country would jump at the chance of an international profile so you would no doubt see concerts, fairs, 'taste' festivals, cultural and historical trips. In essence we could 'Oirish the cr*p out of it, and hopefully by '23 we'll be in more optimistic times to do it.

There's your bid folks, if only we could do something about the weather. Might get some quotes from the lad who put a greenhouse over Otago Stadium Dunedin, see if he does one 144x86 metres