Ireland World Cup Bid for 2023 or 2027 - GAA coming on board...

Podge_irl

P_1 wrote: »

Neither were they to be fair, the majority of their stadia are also set up for cricket as well as rugby

Fair point, and cricket stadia have a similar problem. But Eden Park was a rugby stadium only. Croker is a great stadium, but part of the reason it has such massive capacity is simply its huge size and that detracts from the viewing experience.

Ultimately though, I think the IRB care more about corporate facilities and putting on a good show and I think Ireland can do that very, very well. I do think stadia like Semple are a non-runner because of where they are though.

P_1

Podge_irl wrote: »

Fair point, and cricket stadia have a similar problem. But Eden Park was a rugby stadium only. Croker is a great stadium, but part of the reason it has such massive capacity is simply its huge size and that detracts from the viewing experience.

Ultimately though, I think the IRB care more about corporate facilities and putting on a good show and I think Ireland can do that very, very well. I do think stadia like Semple are a non-runner because of where they are though.

Usually Eden Park is also set up for cricket, AFAIK they used some temp seats to bump up the capacity for the final

Podge_irl

P_1 wrote: »

Usually Eden Park is also set up for cricket, AFAIK they used some temp seats to bump up the capacity for the final

So it is.

As per usual I'm talking ****e so.

P_1

Podge_irl wrote: »

So it is.

As per usual I'm talking ****e so.

We're on the internet, aren't we all

awec

Huh?

Rugby at a cricket stadium? Cricket pitches are round and have a crease smack bang in the middle of them.

P_1

awec wrote: »

Huh?

Rugby at a cricket stadium? Cricket pitches are round and have a crease smack bang in the middle of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eden_Park
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westpac_Stadium

Cricket in the summer, rugby in the winter is how they seem to do it in New Zealand

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

Huh?

Rugby at a cricket stadium? Cricket pitches are round and have a crease smack bang in the middle of them.

Quite a few Aussie and NZ stadia are used for cricket too. I imagine its similar to having a running track around them in terms of shape and size.

P_1

Podge_irl wrote: »

Quite a few Aussie and NZ stadia are used for cricket too. I imagine its similar to having a running track around them in terms of shape and size.

Also isn't the Stade de France oval shaped too? Doesn't seem to cause too many problems to be fair

awec

I hate running tracks around pitches.

Sure look at the hack of this. You'd need to bring a pair of binoculars ffs.



You're sitting in a different postcode to the pitch.

P_1

awec wrote: »

I hate running tracks around pitches.

Sure look at the hack of this. You'd need to bring a pair of binoculars ffs.



You're sitting in a different postcode to the pitch.

Yeah that's a bit stupid looking alright.

A potential solution for the GAA pitches might be to drop the level of the pitch by a few feet during the renovations, that way you can fit in temp seats for football/rugby etc

Taco Corp

P_1 wrote: »

Usually Eden Park is also set up for cricket, AFAIK they used some temp seats to bump up the capacity for the final

they sure did. adding a third tier behind each goal so it was pretty high, and man, did it rock when the final whistle went.

[Jackass]

Olympic stadiums are far worse than GAA Stadiums. Twickenham and Millennium Stadia are the only two real rugby stadiums in the 6 nations that are of a decent size too.

I can see no problem with the GAA stadiums though. Sure the pitch is a bit further away, but jeez it's no where near as big a deal as some people make it out to be. I think it's the size of the stadium as much as the distance to the pitch that had some people feeling away from the game. Croke Park is one of the biggest stadiums in the world and in the top 5 in Europe, so if you're in the nosebleeds, that extra few feet doesn't make a difference, you're still a long way from the action.

I think having regional bases could well be organised for the event also, with Belfast having at least 2 of the stadia, Dublin having at least 3, Cork having at least 2, Limerick having at least 2, then dotted around like Semple stadium could be commuted to from one of these regional basis without a problem, with the group games based around these regional bases and no one having to travel too far until the knockouts.

With proper planning, it's a non-issue.

What excites me the most is what it would do for the game in this country as well as the Economic benefits. This would be the single largest global event to ever be hosted in Ireland, it would see massive upgrades of sporting infrastructure around the country and every kid in the country would want to play rugby, every sports fan in the country would be watching it and might just grab their interest enough to buy a season ticket for their province the following season. It could be a real game changer in the growth of the sport here.

I dream of the day PRO12 / Heineken Cup matches always attract crowds of 30 - 50k. Like Leinster being in Lansdowne full time some day, Thomond has the ends of the pitch that could be developed in the future to a c.40k stadium perhaps...would be amazing.

Taco Corp

Is there any chance that the North End of Lansdowne could be redeveloped at some point between now and 2023? anyone know if it was built with that in mind?

awec

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

Is there any chance that the North End of Lansdowne could be redeveloped at some point between now and 2023? anyone know if it was built with that in mind?

Doubtful, it was residents objections that stopped it was it not?

P_1

awec wrote: »

Doubtful, it was residents objections that stopped it was it not?

Resident's objections and the obscene cost of buying a row of houses in D4 at the peak of the madness that was the boom I would have thought.

awec

Out of interest what would a redeveloped north stand bring the capacity up to? How many does the south stand hold?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

Is there any chance that the North End of Lansdowne could be redeveloped at some point between now and 2023? anyone know if it was built with that in mind?

They would have to redo the roof of the entire stadium and the structure of the whole thing so I doubt its an option.

Podge_irl

Supposedly there is a river running under it too. Justin claimed it wasn't designed with a redevelopment in mind and that it isn't possible.

JustinDee

Podge_irl wrote: »

Supposedly there is a river running under it too. Justin claimed it wasn't designed with a redevelopment in mind and that it isn't possible.

Correct. To extend requires going approx 30m further north, and on top of a delicate river system.

Swiwi

Podge_irl wrote: »

Croke, its really not up for debate. 50,000 simply is not enough for the final. Which is a concern, because its not a great stadium for watching rugby. It has decent corporate facilities and what not which is probably all that matters though.

If Ireland get the RWC it will be because of good politicking. Ultimately, you only really need to convince the 6N countries and you are almost there.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Which is a problem with all the GAA pitches, and another issue I have with the bid. I find it hard to imagine that the IRB would be alright with going to a stadium with 30,000 fewer seats though.

I really, really want it to go to Ireland. But the difference between us and NZ is that they were using rugby stadia and we won't be.

From memory there is 20 or so votes, and if you can convince Wales, Eng, Scot & France than that is already 8 votes - the problem in the past is that these countries have extracted concessions such as a game at Cardiff, Twickenham etc and before you know it the tournament is spread across countries - I think 1991 was like this if I remember correctly - reduces the atmosphere no end. NZ certainly traded end of season AB games for votes I would think, but of course never officially confirmed. Japanese were gob-smacked when they lost out, and I was genuinely surprised NZ got it.

NZ invested a lot in upgrading all the stadia, with Dunedin the crowning joy. Auckland is rift by local politics, no-one wanting the stadium on their door etc, so despite the fact a new waterside stadium (like Wellington) would have been best, the dog's breakfast that constitutes Eden Park was further extended.

I do remember getting up one morning bleary-eyed to watch the announcement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA2q0J37sHs), and it made my day, so I would wish Ireland every success if they do go for it.

mrmurphster

What you guys have not thought of is the fact the the world cup is loss making even before you add in the rental of GAA grounds.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2062338.html

So who would make up the difference?

Swiwi

mrmurphster wrote: »

What you guys have not thought of is the fact the the world cup is loss making even before you add in the rental of GAA grounds.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2062338.html

So who would make up the difference?

What do you think the "Household Charge" is for...:)

totallegend

mrmurphster wrote: »

What you guys have not thought of is the fact the the world cup is loss making even before you add in the rental of GAA grounds.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/news/newsid=2062338.html

So who would make up the difference?

Well, that depends on your definition of "loss-making".

The World Cup itself is a huge money-making operation but it's the IRB that takes the profit (RWC is its main source of funding). The host country makes a 'loss' because it essentially pays the IRB for the right to host it.

The RWC in NZ brought 133,000 people into one of the most isolated countries on the planet and generated $260 million of extra economic activity. Ireland would be damn glad of something similar.

Stats and facts available here:
http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicators/NationalAccounts/impact-of-rugby-world-cup.aspx

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

Well, that depends on your definition of "loss-making".

The World Cup itself is a huge money-making operation but it's the IRB that takes the profit (RWC is its main source of funding). The host country makes a 'loss' because it essentially pays the IRB for the right to host it.

The RWC in NZ brought 133,000 people into one of the most isolated countries on the planet and generated $260 million of extra economic activity. Ireland would be damn glad of something similar.

Which is why the Govt coughed up to help sponsor it. I would think Ireland would have a lot to gain by essentially investing in the tournament, even if on the face of it it looks like a loss-making procedure.

P_1

You do have to speculate to accumulate after all

Podge_irl

Investing in a RWC gets the Irish better infrastructure, better stadia and national attention. They'll make a profit on the RWC alone, never mind the associated press and subsequent tourism if it goes well. The IRFU would make a loss technically on it (though again, they'd likely have more seats to sell than NZ so could possibly break even) but the benefit to the country would be huge and thus the govt backing is key.

The key is getting votes, little of which has to do with being the best candidate. As Swiwi mentioned, the ABs traded tours for votes (the common rumour is that NZ being the opening game in the Aviva came on the back of IRFU voting for their bid). The WRU could be bought off, as always, with games in the Millennium but I'd really rather not go down that route. Keeping it to one country (so to speak) is ideal. Having 2023 and 2027 decided at the same time helps them I think, as they'll want one of the RWCs to go a bigger market I think. Still, if NZ could do it, then I think a smaller land mass country with more people could hack it as well. The redevelopment of Casement Park looks great, potentially Ravenhill could be upgraded even further, Aviva and Croke are there already, Thomond Park in Limerick and Parc Ui Chaoimh in Cork and Pearse Stadium in Galway is a solid base. I have concerns about other stadia such as Semple given where they are. The GAA will be all aboard given the massive investment needed in their stadia to make the bid realistic.

jjjd

Kingdom support for IRFU bid

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=187116

JustinDee

Podge_irl wrote: »

As Swiwi mentioned, the ABs traded tours for votes (the common rumour is that NZ being the opening game in the Aviva came on the back of IRFU voting for their bid)

NZ were not the opening international in the Aviva Stadium though. South Africa were.

totallegend

JustinDee wrote: »

NZ were not the opening international in the Aviva Stadium though. South Africa were.

Correct, but I think it's commonly acknowledged that there was serious horse-trading going on by NZ to secure the votes which is more the point.

If it came to a tight decision between Ireland and another country, it's hard to see what we could offer to sweeten the deal...

postitnote

We could offer to let ROG start against them :pac::pac::pac: