Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

vanillavanilla

I really don't understand the mentality of some people in this country. How could the Quinns drum up so much support?

Seán Quinn should be behind bars. The legal system in this country is seriously flawed. Yesterday, a man got a 6 year sentence (which is normally a 10 year sentence) for raping a girl, with 5 and a half years suspended! He owns an aviation leasing company and is worth a lot of money so was ordered to pay 75k in damages to the victim. A penniless man who committed the same crime could expect a far less lenient outcome. We still live in a country where money can buy you out of anything. It can even buy you out of owing 2.8bn apparently! :rolleyes:

And for the record, as the old saying goes, "fools' names and fools' faces are often seen in public places"; in this case, Cavan on Sunday.

Show Time

R P McMurphy wrote: »

According to the last census there were 72,874 persons living in Cavan. There were 4000 people at the rally and more than likely a large percentage of those present were from across the border. Can you see any flaw in the logic that led you to your previous statement

What proof have you that a large percentage of the crowd where from across the border?

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

Could you quantify how much WE DON'T KNOW and are not being allowed TO KNOW?

So in order to twist a debate - you actually want to know, how much we don't know?
Are you for real?
Do you know how stupid that question is?

Happyman42 wrote: »

...Because the reason those people are on the streets in support of Quinn is that they KNOW a man who has never welched on a debt, closed a company, **** from a height on his community, feathered his own nest with yachts and the trappings of excessive wealth, who never had a problem investing in the community and therefore them, UNTIL he got involved with Anglo.

O' well, seeing as he was good as gold (supposedly!) till he got involved with Anglo (WHICH NO ONE FORCED HIM TO DO) then he should be let off?
"Off ya go there Mr Quinn, there's a good lad!"

:rolleyes:

Happyman42 wrote: »

...The government and state institutions are not allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court...

Please show/prove where exactly the Quinns have been stopped from "allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court".

Please do - we shall await your (I hope) much detailed reply!

Happyman42 wrote: »

If what he did in the begining was wrong, why wasn't he simply arrested, charged with a criminal offence and sentenced, was the evidence not all there? He himself admitted he owed the bank money and offered to pay it back, did he not, why wasn't he given that opportunity? That is what I don't understand, could you explain why that was?

1. He couldn't simply be arrested because intensive investigations had to take place - which is exactly what happened - but I suspect you know this!
2. Such was his deep and complex money laundering antics with his family, the evidence was simply not going to turn up over night - but I suspect you know this!
3. He admitted (only eventually when the evidence before the court was so over whelming he couldn't then deny it!) that he made a few mistakes.
4. While he was offering to pay it back - in actual fact, he was doing the complete opposite and continuing to get the money out of the country - but I suspect you know this!!
5. He and his mob was given MANY opportunities, over many months if not a year and more, before even the courts had to be called in and even then, be further used to request him to co-operate - which he didn't in fact!
...but I suspect you know this!
He had many an opportunity before and after the courts became involved. He and his lot decided instead to take the piss!

He reaping what he hugely sowed - and he don't like it!

Boo hoo for him!

thebaz

Happyman42 wrote: »

He himself admitted he owed the bank money and offered to pay it back, did he not, why wasn't he given that opportunity?

he owes the bank (now owned by the citizens of Ireland) somewhere in the region of over 400 million euros , and is doing everything in his power to put all his assets beyond the reach of the state - that is just wrong on all levels

R P McMurphy

Show Time wrote: »

What proof have you that a large percentage of the crowd where from across the border?

If you knew the geographic area and where the businesses are based in Derrylin it is a safe assumption. Even if the entire rally was made up of people from Cavan they would account for 5% of the population. Is that not an idiotic conculsion to draw from a small sample?

vanillavanilla

I should also add, shame on the likes of Fr. Brian D'Arcy coming out and publicly supporting the Quinns. Yes, he is entitled to his opinion but does he realise that people are committing suicide everday in this country, such is the financial burden put on the "ordinary people" to bail out the banks.

fishy fishy

heard a snippet on the news this morning that all these prominent people who were at the rally, were called up to give their opinions and not one of them answered the phone. The reporter then said something like they were supported quinn as he was "one of their own", i.e. catholic, nationalist, etc. or something along those lines (not word for word)

that was the gist of what the reporter said anyway. anyone else hear that?

if that is the case, I give up.

Heroditas

Happyman42 wrote: »

if you start to throw stones at those who made 'mistakes' over the last 20 odd years, I hope you have plenty of stones.

Oh don't you worry. I have plenty of stones to throw, particularly at a family waving its two fingers at us.

vanillavanilla

fishy fishy wrote: »

heard a snippet on the news this morning that all these prominent people who were at the rally, were called up to give their opinions and not one of them answered the phone. The reporter then said something like they were supported quinn as he was "one of their own", i.e. catholic, nationalist, etc. or something along those lines (not word for word)

that was the gist of what the reporter said anyway. anyone else hear that?

if that is the case, I give up.

That's exactly what it was; the crawthumping, GAA brigade. Fr. Brian D'Arcy, Mickey Harte were just some of the high profile people present. What a joke.

Show Time

R P McMurphy wrote: »

If you knew the geographic area and where the businesses are based in Derrylin it is a safe assumption. Even if the entire rally was made up of people from Cavan they would account for 5% of the population. Is that not an idiotic conculsion to draw from a small sample?

Cavan is still full of idiots either way.:rolleyes:

R P McMurphy

Show Time wrote: »

Cavan is still full of idiots either way.:rolleyes:

Says the fella complaining about insults a few posts back ... idiot :rolleyes:

tayto lover

The Quinns were greedy and their acts were criminal. BUT lets also not forget the actions of Anglo and lets also not forget that we have never been given the information of what occurred on the night of the Bank guarantee and why our politicians (some) decided on it and why no notes were taken.
A lot of questions to be answered yet.

cournioni

Show Time wrote: »

What proof have you that a large percentage of the crowd where from across the border?

What proof do you have that they weren't? Mickey Harte was one at least.

unkel

And that coward Peter Darragh Quinn should be very careful. I wouldn't be surprised if someone (obviously not one of the loyal locals :rolleyes:) bundled him into their car and dropped him into a Garda station this side of the border...

cournioni

Show Time wrote: »

Cavan is still full of idiots either way.:rolleyes:

Says the guy coming out with an utterly ignorant statement... :rolleyes:

stepbar

Happyman42 wrote: »

stepbar wrote: »

So you're just going to ignore the rest eh? Both words were used in conjunction with the percieved worth of the company. For the record, I find it hard to believe that the company was worth €4.3bil (based on the lack of profits to support this valuation).

Yes, I said the claims and counter claims have to be tested forensically in a court of law. What I find interesting is that Quinn freely admits that he did something wrong but he is not carrying the whole can. That seems to be making some uncomfortable. We need to know the entire story of what went on. But of course we won't get that, because the story has been hijacked.

As regards the money being ferreted away, if I believed my business (that I had built over 40 years) was being taken away illegally and my right to defend myself in a court was being denied, I would do the exact same. And I would shoot the moral high grounders who arrived at my 'castle' to try and take it away from me.
Before you destroy this man and family call for the right thing first, fully uncover what went on here and then you are entitled to the high ground and I will join you.

So basically you believe that the '7 year plan' was viable. You're a bigger fool than I thought.

SQ has no one but himself to blame for the circumstances he finds himself in. First the family said that the entire debt would be paid back. Then they changed their mind and challenged the validity of it. Can't have it both ways.

Happyman42

stepbar wrote: »

So basically you believe that the '7 year plan' was viable. You're a bigger fool than I thought.

SQ has no one but himself to blame for the circumstances he finds himself in. First the family said that the entire debt would be paid back. Then they changed their mind and challenged the validity of it. Can't have it both ways.

I have no idea if it was viable or not, that is why I am calling for full disclosure of what went on. I want to see what went on FULLY exposed and the guilty sent to jail, all of them, Quinn included. I have said that I believe what Quinn did was wrong, my issue is the 'price' that was extracted for his mistake and the vindictiveness of the extraction of that price and the huge possibility that a mighty swindle, bigger than Quinn's will be obscured. I DO NOT trust what I am being told here.
We as a country will lose either way here, and if we play the game that those in the establishment want us to play and is being played so majestically here on Boards, then we will pay even more. There is an opportunity to, once and for all, expose the protected elites in this country. They patently fear that Quinn might be able to do that.

Heroditas

Happyman42 wrote: »

I have no idea if it was viable or not, that is why I am calling for full disclosure of what went on. I want to see what went on FULLY exposed and the guilty sent to jail, all of them, Quinn included. I have said that I believe what Quinn did was wrong, my issue is the 'price' that was extracted for his mistake and the vindictiveness of the extraction of that price and the huge possibility that a mighty swindle, bigger than Quinn's will be obscured. I DO NOT trust what I am being told here.
We as a country will lose either way here, and if we play the game that those in the establishment want us to play and is being played so majestically here on Boards, then we will pay even more. There is an opportunity to, once and for all, expose the protected elites in this country. They patently fear that Quinn might be able to do that.

I'd agree with a lot of that.
However, if Quinn feels aggrieved and reckons there's a cover-up taking place, there's nothing stopping him going public and rocking the boat.
Now that would be extremely interesting!

later12

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes they do, if they are prepared to take the consequnces.

You're struggling with the term 'right'.

If there are punitive consequences to committing an act, then the commital of that act is not a 'right', it is an illegal behaviour.

Quinn does not have the right to ignore the direction of the Court. It is because he does not have that right that he and his family are being punished.

Happyman42

Heroditas wrote: »

However, if Quinn feels aggrieved and reckons there's a cover-up taking place, there's nothing stopping him going public and rocking the boat.
Now that would be extremely interesting!

I reckon that is because there is an element of brinkmanship going on here. Quinn knows stuff and if he manages to expose a few of the main and real players in the process then he will have done a service worth more than what he owes. And yes, I think it will be extremely interesting and the fact that Quinn is prepared to go to jail has a few elite bowels trembling like a leaf on a tree!

mikemac1

Yakult wrote: »

Boycott Cavan!

I was going to say boycott Cavan Cola

But wikipedia tells me it's gone for over a decade

Now I feel old

Happyman42

later12 wrote: »

You're struggling with the term 'right'.

If there are punitive consequences to committing an act, then the commital of that act is not a 'right', it is an illegal behaviour.

Quinn does not have the right to ignore the direction of the Court. It is because he does not have that right that he and his family are being punished.

And he has said he is prepared to take that punishment, like his son. That's his right and it's fair enough by me.

tayto lover

mikemac1 wrote: »

I was going to say boycott Cavan Cola

But wikipedia tells me it's gone for over a decade

Now I feel old

Now that was a lovely drink.

Biggins

Please show/prove where exactly the Quinns have been stopped from "allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court".

Still awaiting for this.

Originally Posted by Happyman42
I have no idea if it was viable or not, that is why I am calling for full disclosure of what went on. I want to see what went on FULLY exposed and the guilty sent to jail, all of them, Quinn included. I have said that I believe what Quinn did was wrong, my issue is the 'price' that was extracted for his mistake and the vindictiveness of the extraction of that price and the huge possibility that a mighty swindle, bigger than Quinn's will be obscured. I DO NOT trust what I am being told here.
We as a country will lose either way here, and if we play the game that those in the establishment want us to play and is being played so majestically here on Boards, then we will pay even more. There is an opportunity to, once and for all, expose the protected elites in this country. They patently fear that Quinn might be able to do that.

1. There has been much disclosed through provided documentation, to the courts about what has been going on!
2. Do you think the price Quinn is paying (or yet to pay - which he's not seemingly good at!) for his non-compliance of defying a court, his non-compliance for paying what he owed, his non-compliance of not doing what he was ordered to do, is too much?
Do you think a current price he is allegedly paying (remember, he is STILL not behind bars - all that was/is really asked of him to do, is cooperate in accordance with the court) is too much seen as he funnelled many millions away from those he was supposed to be paying?

So far, when it comes to paying things, the only persons really paying, will be the public for the next 15 years at least!

Foxtrol

Happyman42 wrote: »

And he has said he is prepared to take that punishment, like his son. That's his right and it's fair enough by me.

So it's my right to murder someone if I'm willing to take the punishment for it?

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

Still awaiting for this.

I think Quinn's intention is to expose what went on, if that is what it takes. He has said as much in interviews. He is playing a game without doubt and this is an 'ongoing' event, it is far from over. So, I will wait until it plays out, before leaping to judgement, if that is all right with you? You carry on with the vindictive bile, it won't get the money back.

So far, when it comes to paying things, the only persons really paying, will be the public for the next 15 years at least!

And the public will be paying a hell of a lot more if this isn't resolved with the FULL FACTS on the table.

Show Time

cournioni wrote: »

Says the guy coming out with an utterly ignorant statement... :rolleyes:

You are as entitled to your opinion as i am to my own.

later12

Happyman42 wrote: »

And he has said he is prepared to take that punishment, like his son. That's his right and it's fair enough by me.

It's his obligation, not his right.

You seem to believe that punishment is some sort of folly that Quinn is benevolently going along with. He does not have the right to disregard the direction of the judicial system, nor to refuse to accept whatever punishment it metes.

Biggins

Please show/prove where exactly the Quinns have been stopped from "allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court".

Happyman42 wrote: »

I think Quinn's intention is to expose what went on, if that is what it takes. He has said as much in interviews. He is playing a game without doubt and this is an 'ongoing' event, it is far from over. So, I will wait until it plays out, before leaping to judgement, if that is all right with you? You carry on with the vindictive bile, it won't get the money back.

And the public will be paying a hell of a lot more if this isn't resolved with the FULL FACTS on the table.

So your going to state something (and just expect us to take it as fact - but complain at the same time ironically that we should not trust what we have been informed of elsewhere!) - and not back it up then? I see...

If your retort is just to call facts of the Quinn case, vindictive bile then your very deluded!
Is that the best you can do?

Seeing as you won't provide evidence or show that the Quinns have been stopped from "allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court" - how about you explaining how you seem to know about more full facts?

You seem to know a lot (and then expect us just to believe it!) but are backing up fcuk all!

R P McMurphy

Show Time wrote: »

You are as entitled to your opinion as i am to my own.

The difference is that your opinion is an idiotic unfounded ignorant one