Rally for The Quinn-were you there?

Riesen_Meal

Speaking as a person who did a lot of work for the Quinn family in a previous role (other company ****ups not withstanding) and having dealt with some of his family personally, this family are put on a pedestal south and north of the border, and with good reason - they provided work for many people in an area where it can be tough to get decent local work, I'm not surprised people marched for them...

I have not kept abreast of their financial affairs these past few years and don't know much about the Anglo problems, but I hope this is sorted out for the good people of Cavan and surrounds sake...

Happyman42

Foxtrol wrote: »

So it's my right to murder someone if I'm willing to take the punishment for it?

It your right to kill somebody who threatens your life, but an impartial court is fully entitled to ask you WHY you killed that person. The courts are there to examine your case, with all the facts, including the rights of the person killed, presented to that court. If it turns out you 'murdered' that person then that is illegal, and you take the punishment.

ferike1

Wait, even if we forget about the money he used to buy Anglo (lets say they twisted his arm and its all a big conspiracy against poor Quinny) , what about the other €500m for property? Is that being disputed?

He has debts he can't repay and is now doing everything he can to screw the Irish taxpayer all while coming across as this salt of the earth simple man. He is a crafty bugger I'll give him that.

later12

Happyman42 wrote: »

It your right to kill somebody who threatens your life, but an impartial court is fully entitled to ask you WHY

That's an entirely spurious comparison.

Quinn and his family had their right to move their assets extinguished on foot of a direction of the court. That's anomalous to a court stepping in, in your example and saying "Mr Quinn, stop stabbing this man at once".

What happened, to continue your analogy, was that Quinn - forgive me, "The Quinn" - blithely ignored that demand. That was not a right he or his family enjoyed, which is why they are being punished.

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

So your going to state something (and just expect us to take it as fact - but complain at the same time ironically that we should not trust what we have been informed of elsewhere!) - and not back it up then? I see...

If your retort is just to call facts of the Quinn case, vindictive bile then your very deluded!
Is that the best you can do?

Seeing as you won't provide evidence or show that the Quinns have been stopped from "allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court" - how about you explaining how you seem to know about more full facts?

You seem to know a lot (and then expect us just to believe it!) but are backing up fcuk all!

I don't have the answers because I don't have all the facts.

Happyman42

later12 wrote: »

That's an entirely spurious comparison.

You asked had you the right to 'murder' someone. I answered that, no you don't and you will pay the penalty if you do. You do have the right to kill somebody and the state itself invokes that right all the time. There is a legal distinction between lawful killing and murder.

Quinn and his family had their right to move their assets extinguished on foot of a direction of the court. That's anomalous to a court stepping in, in your example and saying "Mr Quinn, stop stabbing this man at once".

What happened, to continue your analogy, was that Quinn - forgive me, "The Quinn" - blithely ignored that demand. That was not a right he or his family enjoyed, which is why they are being punished.

And it is a punishment his son is taking, and Quinn himself has said, he will take. Now what?

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

I don't have the answers because I don't have all the facts.

...But still is able to state:

The government and state institutions are not allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court...

...But unwilling to show this, back it up!

You espouse that we not trust the evidence so far given into the Irish courts - but expect us to trust your allegation instead?

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

...But still is able to state:



...But unwilling to show this, back it up!

You espouse that we not trust the evidence so far given into the Irish courts - but expect us to trust your allegation instead?

Hand on heart, are you saying that there is nothing more to be known here?
I don't need back-up, I would just like you to say one way or the other.

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

Hand on heart, are you saying that there is nothing more to be known here?
I don't need back-up, I would just like you to say one way or the other.

Please answer the question already put to you twice ("Please show/prove where exactly the Quinns have been stopped from "allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court"):

Happyman42 wrote: »

The government and state institutions are not allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court...

If your going to state that and expect us to believe it - you do need back-up!

There is much more to be know here - but because of the antics of the Quinn family to lie, twist and hide money from the banks, the courts, and the people - as the Sunday Times put it "Investigators seem to be going to infinity and beyond to try to unravel the extraordinary world of the Quinns" - are not getting the full facts of the huge mess Quinn created (NOT FORCED INTO) by his own wishes and effort.

HE won't provide all of them!

Menas

Not happy with Fr Brian D'arcys support of the Quinns?
Let the sunday world, one of his employers, know. news@sundayworld.com.

Not happy with Mickey Harte's support of the Quinns?
Let the Tyrone GAA, his employer, know. pro.tyrone@gaa.ie

Not happy with Sean Kelly's support of the Quinns? Let him and Fine Gael know. sean.kelly@europarl.europa.eu; finegael@finegael.ie.

I am sick to the bones of those who gambled our future away crying foul.
Sick of people saying that it was not their fault.
Sick to death about worrying how I will feed the family etc etc etc.
And I am sick of these muppets who support those who have done so much damage to us.

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

Please answer the question already put to you twice ("Please show/prove where exactly the Quinns have been stopped from "allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court"):



If your going to state that and expect us to believe it - you do need back-up!

There is much more to be know here - but because of the antics of the Quinn family to lie, twist and hide money from the banks, the courts, and the people - as the Sunday Times put it "Investigators seem to be going to infinity and beyond to try to unravel the extraordinary world of the Quinns" - are not getting the full facts of the huge mess Quinn created (NOT FORCED INTO) by his own wishes and effort.

HE won't provide all of them!

You can get hung up on your pedantry all you want. The fact is, we will only get ALL the facts when ALL of the players are sworn to tell the truth. That hasn't happened.
You are happy to hang one man and his family, I want the whole mess cleaned up and all the guilty to pay for their crimes.

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

You can get hung up on your pedantry all you want. The fact is, we will only get ALL the facts when ALL of the players are sworn to tell the truth. That hasn't happened.
You are happy to hang one man and his family, I want the whole mess cleaned up and all the guilty to pay for their crimes.

So lets be clear - your willing to post that the state is stopping the man from providing material to the court - but unwilling to back this claim up with anything and continue to deflect the question?

Right?

Got it!

Heroditas

Happyman42 wrote: »

You are happy to hang one man and his family, I want the whole mess cleaned up and all the guilty to pay for their crimes.

I want Quinn and his family to pay ..... then I want all the rest of the perpetrators hung.
I think everyone is in agreement with that.
As a result, I'm not sure what everyone is arguing about at this stage!

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

So lets be clear - your willing to post that the state is stopping the man from providing material to the court - but unwilling to back this claim up with anything and continue to deflect the question?

Right?

Got it!

That the Anglo situation has STILL not been unravelled is all the proof that I need.

Happyman42

Heroditas wrote: »

I want Quinn and his family to pay ..... then I want all the rest of the perpetrators hung.
I think everyone is in agreement with that.
As a result, I'm not sure what everyone is arguing about at this stage!

Exactly. Full disclosure, and full responsibility, nothing less.

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

That the Anglo situation has STILL not been unravelled is all the proof that I need.

That don't prove that "the Quinns have been stopped from allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court"."

We're are still awaiting material from you to show this.

More deflection.

Menas

Some clarity from Sean Kelly.

I fully understand the anger this has caused. I am all too aware of the hardships people in Ireland are experiencing at present, and the issue of Anglo Irish is certainly one that elicits strong responses right across the country.
However, I wish to clarify my own position in relation to comments attributed to me in an interview conducted on Radio Kerry this week. I assure you that these quotes have been taken out of context. Not only was I not present at the rally on Sunday as has been reported in some quarters (I was in Thurles for the GAA hurling quarter finals), but I also refrained from commenting on the issues concerning the Quinn's themselves.
As the former President of the GAA I was asked for my thoughts on the rally given the local clubs involvement along with a number of high profile association members. I clearly stated that this was not an official GAA protest, but that I firmly believed in the individual's right to support whoever they so wish.
I at no point expressed an opinion on the actions of the Quinn family themselves. Given the fact that a judicial process is currently underway any such comments or opinions would have been highly inappropriate. I have the height of respect for the court system and judiciary in Ireland and do not comment on upcoming of ongoing judicial matters.
I would like to thank you for you email.
Yours sincerely,
Sean Kelly MEP,

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

That don't prove that "the Quinns have been stopped from allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court"."

We're are still awaiting material from you to show this.

More deflection.

Jesus christ! Where are the full sworn facts of what went on at Anglo? Don't you think we should have them?
You know this about what Quinn did and you know that....the fact is, you, like me, do NOT KNOW what went on and until this government see to it that we do know, then any judgement is flawed.
You are making a judgement on what went on AFTER Anglo unravelled, that is entirely different.

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

Jesus christ! Where are the full sworn facts of what went on at Anglo? Don't you think we should have them?
You know this about what Quinn did and you know that....the fact is, you, like me, do NOT KNOW what went on and until this government see to it that we do know, then any judgement is flawed.
You are making a judgement on what went on AFTER Anglo unravelled, that is entirely different.

It was you that stated to us all

the Quinns have been stopped from allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court.

Staying on topic and avoiding more attempted "Anglo" deflection - please show us some thing to back this up or withdraw this pulled out of the air allegation!

How do you expect to be taken as credible when you spout some serious allegation and won't bother backing it up!

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

It was you that stated to us all



Staying on topic and avoiding more attempted "Anglo" deflection - please show us some thing to back this up or withdraw this pulled out of the air allegation!

How do you expect to be taken as credible when you spout some serious allegation and won't bother backing it up!

The pedant wins. :rolleyes: We have 'all' been stopped from finding out what happened in Anglo. If the will was there, like it was in the instance of the Quinn Group, we would have found out by now.

Biggins

At the end of the day we have:

(a) The Anglo - a right screw up of a bank.

and we have

(b) Sean Quinn - who wanted to buy the bank - by actually taking out loans from the very bank he was trying to buy! (amazing in itself - Can I buy a local bank too if I take out a loan from the same bank I want to buy?)

What Sean Quinn (and Co) did REGARDLESS of the other fcuk-ups in the Anglo (a separate entity), the Quinns screwed up big time.

When they were asked to answer for their screw-ups, they have lied, ducked, delayed, (one) gone on the run, done the opposite to what they were told to do. they moved MILLIONS abroad when told not to, they used every trick in the book to avoid answering what the court of Ireland was asking them to do - sort out their mess!

I want all the rest of the perpetrators to be held accountable for any financial mis-deeds too.

My question is, why in gods name so some people seem to think the Quinns for all they massive and complex illegal antics, think they should get a pass and/or let off ever so light?

...Because once he created jobs or supported a local club?

O' well thats all right - here's his "Get out of jail free" card then!

Noreen1

There is no question, at this stage, that the Quinn family actively engaged in hiding assets, which is both illegal, and immoral.

That said, the amount of media coverage of the Quinn saga , whilst conveniently commenting to a lesser extent on the many Billions of Euro for which the Irish taxpayer is also liable is cause for concern, imo.

AFAIK, lending Sean Quinn the money to buy shares was illegal, in the first place.
Certainly, before the fiasco that was Anglo, it would also have been illegal for Anglo to pursue the debt, since the contract was illegal, in the first place.

I've no idea when the law was changed, to allow Sean Quinn to be pursued - but I do find it interesting that the law could no be changed to pursue other creditors - who collectively owe the remainder of the debt that the Irish people are on the hook for.

I'm not defending Sean Quinn. I wasn't at the rally.

But - I am saying that a great deal of information remains undisclosed.
We know that some TDs received very favourable loan terms.
We also know that certain TDs have had meetings with some individuals who were up to their necks in the whole Banking/Property fiasco, and whose morals are questionable, to say the least.

The question is - how much more remains to be disclosed?
How much of it will ever be disclosed?

Yet, we focus incredible amounts of anger at Sean Quinn - and are distracted from the bigger picture - 96%-97% of the bigger picture.

Personally, I want the whole truth - and part of that truth is what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee (and the "No notes were taken" line is not credible, imo.)
I want to know which developers had their loans taken over by NAMA. I want to know how much their loans were for - and I want to know of any friendships with TDs.

I want unbiased, impartial reporting - which I will not get, since a sizeable portion of media ownership in this Country is controlled by the Government, or people who are very well connected to Government circles.

If people want to be angry with Sean Quinn, that's fine by me.
But I would suggest that it might be of greater benefit to reserve even more anger for the people who have lumbered the people of Ireland with a great deal more debt than Sean Quinn - and who have yet to be subjected to the same level of investigation - and may never be - because we're all so focused on Sean Quinn that we are distracted by the bigger, and more expensive, picture.

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

The pedant wins. :rolleyes: We have 'all' been stopped from finding out what happened in Anglo. If the will was there, like it was in the instance of the Quinn Group, we would have found out by now.

So still no verifiable material of any kind from you to show that:

the Quinns have been stopped from allowing the full facts of this case to see the light of a court.

Nothing!

Your credibility is shot to hell!

Happyman42

Biggins wrote: »

At the end of the day we have:

(a) The Anglo - a right screw up of a bank.

and we have

(b) Sean Quinn - who wanted to buy the bank - by actually taking out loans from the very bank he was trying to buy! (amazing in itself - Can I buy a local bank too if I take out a loan from the same bank I want to buy?)

And why wasn't he charged and tried for that?

liamhana

Quinn has lumbered each & every insurance policy holder with a 2% levy due to his inability to see that the money in the insurance company wasnt his to do with as he pleased. This is the crux of the issue...all these deals were 'company' money, not Quinn money & he moved it around & doled it out to family & russians like it was his personal stash.
He's created this problem himself & as the judges have repeatedly stated these 'problems' etc would cease if he stopped trying to put assets which he owes beyond the state.
Screw his defence that 'the bankers' made him do it, if he's such a succesful business man as cavan people would like him to be seen as, then no banker was gonna be able to push him into doing anything.

Menas

Interesting reply from Tyrone GAA.

Let me start by saying the Tyrone GAA is a sporting organisation only interested in the provision of the GAA’s sporting and cultural opportunities for everyone in our county.
I want to make it clear that Tyrone GAA has absolutely no opinion on the issues surrounding Sean Quinn and his family.
I extremely disappointed that you have sought to tarnish the well-respected name of Mickey Harte by singling him out and copying others into your email to us.
In my opinion you have acted in a completely naïve manner with little or no understanding of what Mickey Harte and his family have had to endure over the last 18 months.
Damian Harvey
Tyrone PRO

thebaz

now I'm getting really sympathetic - much of the country living on the breadline and the Quinns are granted 30k a month - when is the next Rally , I want to offer my support for these great modern Irish heroes

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/sean-quinns-five-children-get-30k-a-month-expenses-3186802.html

Biggins

Noreen1 wrote: »

...We also know that certain TDs have had meetings with some individuals who were up to their necks in the whole Banking/Property fiasco, and whose morals are questionable, to say the least...

Absolutely correct - and hopefully (yea, some hope!) we will see them too in court if they broke the law and/or are not holding up their their responsibilities.

The fact is folks, is that each one of those people separately or as a group approached by their own choice, a bank that was just as bad as they apparently are.

No one forced them to approach a bank (be it good or bad) but when they did so and weren't not willing to meet their part of the deal they got into with a said bank, they think they can just then leave the rest of the country to finance their mess, while their rather than paying off their own created debts, think they can just run off with the money!

Tom Joad

Noreen1 wrote: »

There is no question, at this stage, that the Quinn family actively engaged in hiding assets, which is both illegal, and immoral.

That said, the amount of media coverage of the Quinn saga , whilst conveniently commenting to a lesser extent on the many Billions of Euro for which the Irish taxpayer is also liable is cause for concern, imo.

AFAIK, lending Sean Quinn the money to buy shares was illegal, in the first place.
Certainly, before the fiasco that was Anglo, it would also have been illegal for Anglo to pursue the debt, since the contract was illegal, in the first place.

I've no idea when the law was changed, to allow Sean Quinn to be pursued - but I do find it interesting that the law could no be changed to pursue other creditors - who collectively owe the remainder of the debt that the Irish people are on the hook for.

I'm not defending Sean Quinn. I wasn't at the rally.

But - I am saying that a great deal of information remains undisclosed.
We know that some TDs received very favourable loan terms.
We also know that certain TDs have had meetings with some individuals who were up to their necks in the whole Banking/Property fiasco, and whose morals are questionable, to say the least.

The question is - how much more remains to be disclosed?
How much of it will ever be disclosed?

Yet, we focus incredible amounts of anger at Sean Quinn - and are distracted from the bigger picture - 96%-97% of the bigger picture.

Personally, I want the whole truth - and part of that truth is what happened on the night of the Bank guarantee (and the "No notes were taken" line is not credible, imo.)
I want to know which developers had their loans taken over by NAMA. I want to know how much their loans were for - and I want to know of any friendships with TDs.

I want unbiased, impartial reporting - which I will not get, since a sizeable portion of media ownership in this Country is controlled by the Government, or people who are very well connected to Government circles.

If people want to be angry with Sean Quinn, that's fine by me.
But I would suggest that it might be of greater benefit to reserve even more anger for the people who have lumbered the people of Ireland with a great deal more debt than Sean Quinn - and who have yet to be subjected to the same level of investigation - and may never be - because we're all so focused on Sean Quinn that we are distracted by the bigger, and more expensive, picture.

I think we are all agreed that Anglo is the greatest f*ck up in the history of this state and we haven't got to the bottom of what happened yet and of course it plays to the gallery to make Anglo-lite to look like they are the good guys. BUT the subject at hand is Quinn who was up to his neck in the Anglo mess - he got in over his head and got found out simple.

To people who say he created a lot of jobs in a disadvantaged area - Yes he did and fair play to him - he has rightly got huge credit for this BUT it doesn't give him a get out of jail card. I would love to see a rally where Sean quinn comes out and apologies to all the very same people for gambling recklessly with their jobs and livelihoods - he can't have it both way. And by the way he's not some great philantrophist giving away money - it suited him to create jobs in an area he knew and where costs were lower - he's not Chuck Feeney FFS.

By all means let chase Anglo and the other bankers to the ends of the earth and try to get to the bottom of this but lets also get back our money that Quinn has recklessly hid out of spite and in doing so gave two fingers to you me and every other taxpayer and the next generation of taxpayers behind us..

Biggins

Happyman42 wrote: »

And why wasn't he charged and tried for that?

Maybe - just maybe because of his complex antics - the investigators are still working on that also!

...In the meantime he has to answer for his already discovered antics, their illegality and answer for his responsibilities - for which so far he has ducked, dived, lied and is unwilling to sort out to those that are desperate seeking answers from him!