JRPG general discussion

Zapp Brannigan

I'm about 5 hours in on Type-0. Battle system is pretty fun, though I'm still getting to grips with it.

Visuals are fairly meh, and some of the voice acting has been atrocious (The girl who plays Rem, ugh) but the battles and the music I'm loving!

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

Reviews aren't great so I'd say you'll love it.

Meow

blackwave

Just wondering if anyone had a recommendation for for a jrpg for the ps3, have ni no kuni and valkyria chronicles and was just wondering if there were any games worth getting.

Sephiroth_dude

blackwave wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone had a recommendation for for a jrpg for the ps3, have ni no kuni and valkyria chronicles and was just wondering if there were any games worth getting.

Tales of syphomia? Or any of the tales games for that matter.

Must say I'm enjoying type0 , only annoyance really is the camera.

Retr0gamer

blackwave wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone had a recommendation for for a jrpg for the ps3, have ni no kuni and valkyria chronicles and was just wondering if there were any games worth getting.

The atelier games are the best jrpgs on the system. Start with Atelier Rorona plus or Atelier Ayesha.

Retr0gamer

I'm not sold on FF15. Feels like a poor mans Xenoblade.

calex71

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm not sold on FF15. Feels like a poor mans Xenoblade.

Bugs the hell out me you lose the sidequests you have active when you set up camp for the night.

Sephiroth_dude

Do ye think they'll be able to change the things that are bugging ye before release?

calex71

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Do ye think they'll be able to change the things that are bugging ye before release?

I think in terms of the combat that's pretty much locked down and will change very little from demo to release. It's not that bad actually but different to what I was expecting from a FF title. I never played Xenoblade retro mentioned so have little to compare it to.

They did say , think it was on eurogamer that the visuals in the final game will be better, not that they are bad in the demo but I saw a lot of 'jaggies' so AA likely not optimised in the demo.

How is the frame rate on ps4 Retro? Seems consistent enough on One but did notice a drop here and there with larger enemies.

Want to put a bit more time into it this evening, I do quite like the world and the day/night cycle is interesting.

Pac1Man

Regarding the Tales Of games, are there particular titles that are recommended to start with or even ones to avoid?

Sephiroth_dude

Pac1Man wrote: »

Regarding the Tales Of games, are there particular titles that are recommended to start with or even ones to avoid?

Not really but I would personally start with tales of symphonia and move onto tales of grace f and then onto xillia.

Pac1Man

Thanks. There's a Symphonia and Graces compilation out soon so I might start with that.

noodler

http://www.ign.com/blogs/thegentlegamer/2015/01/13/forgotten-legacy-a-look-at-what-made-final-fantasy-vi-memorable/

FF6 retrospective.

Really would love to play it again on the psp or what have you.

Took some amount of effort on my part to complete the psone version due to load times (I know they are present on all versions but I assume they were worse on PAL?)

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

Took some amount of effort on my part to complete the psone version due to load times (I know they are present on all versions but I assume they were worse on PAL?)

Load times are the same just the game runs much slower.

calex71 wrote: »

I think in terms of the combat that's pretty much locked down and will change very little from demo to release. It's not that bad actually but different to what I was expecting from a FF title. I never played Xenoblade retro mentioned so have little to compare it to.

They did say , think it was on eurogamer that the visuals in the final game will be better, not that they are bad in the demo but I saw a lot of 'jaggies' so AA likely not optimised in the demo.

How is the frame rate on ps4 Retro? Seems consistent enough on One but did notice a drop here and there with larger enemies.

Want to put a bit more time into it this evening, I do quite like the world and the day/night cycle is interesting.

I found the combat more frustrating than anything. It takes too long to take down even small enemies, status effects are a real pain and the fast enemies are frustrating as well. Just not enjoying the combat a lot at the moment but maybe I need to get used to it and the balance is off in the demo.

Framerate on PS4 is pretty choppy as well but there's plenty of time for that to be improved. Some chugginess while wandering and some severe framerate drops in battle.

I think the game and battle system has potential but I think the balance at the moment with the enemies is way off. I do like how it's challenging and also love the HP system. At the moment though a poor mans Xenoblade really is the best way to sum it up.

The game also needs a lock on system and a new camera.

Zapp Brannigan

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Load times are the same just the game runs much slower.



I found the combat more frustrating than anything. It takes too long to take down even small enemies, status effects are a real pain and the fast enemies are frustrating as well. Just not enjoying the combat a lot at the moment but maybe I need to get used to it and the balance is off in the demo.

Framerate on PS4 is pretty choppy as well but there's plenty of time for that to be improved. Some chugginess while wandering and some severe framerate drops in battle.

I think the game and battle system has potential but I think the balance at the moment with the enemies is way off. I do like how it's challenging and also love the HP system. At the moment though a poor mans Xenoblade really is the best way to sum it up.

The game also needs a lock on system and a new camera.

Click R3 that's a lockon.

But I do agree takes way too long to kill off simple enemies. Behemoth looked incredible though.

Retr0gamer

Jeremy Parish gave a good 4/5 review for type-0. Probably can ignore the mediocre reviews it's getting then.

martineatworld

Decent article that rang fairly true for me...!
http://kotaku.com/jrpgs-youre-better-than-this-1690833683

Retr0gamer

That seemed more like the writings of a more casual observer and player of JRPGs than someone that really knows what they are talking about. In terms of quality jrpgs have been as good if not better than ever in the last few years. The problem is that Final fantasy has faltered which is the poster child for the genre so you have to look to more niche titles to find the good stuff. Also complaining about Xenoblades writing is just wrong but understandable, at 60 hours they are at the halfway point and the relationships between the characters from then on are far from tropes and are actually quite bravely handled, there's nothing really else out there in videogames that touches what Xenoblade does. The story comes wonderfully together at the end which you don't know if you've not finished it.

The things that tip me off are talking about how amazing Persona Q is without mentioning that it's just Etrian Ofyssey with a lick of Persona paint and that series has been around for close to ten years now.

Anyway if you are talking about the high points of JRPGs right now you've got to mention the Atelier games.

It really annoys me people saying how dead JRPGs are or how much they suck without having touched something like an Atelier, shin megami tensei gAme or Tactics Ogre and praise yet can praise the story of juvenile fantasy stuff like Mass Effect ( which is not to say it's not a good game and there's plenty of JRPGs that fall back on tropes the way bioware games do )

imitation

Was tempted by the though of picking up Type-0, but its 60-70 quid in B&M games shops.I think I'll hold tough, I'm feeling there is going to be a lot of trade ins after people finish the demo..

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

That seemed more like the writings of a more casual observer and player of JRPGs than someone that really knows what they are talking about. In terms of quality jrpgs have been as good if not better than ever in the last few years. The problem is that Final fantasy has faltered which is the poster child for the genre so you have to look to more niche titles to find the good stuff. Also complaining about Xenoblades writing is just wrong but understandable, at 60 hours they are at the halfway point and the relationships between the characters from then on are far from tropes and are actually quite bravely handled, there's nothing really else out there in videogames that touches what Xenoblade does. The story comes wonderfully together at the end which you don't know if you've not finished it.

The things that tip me off are talking about how amazing Persona Q is without mentioning that it's just Etrian Ofyssey with a lick of Persona paint and that series has been around for close to ten years now.

Anyway if you are talking about the high points of JRPGs right now you've got to mention the Atelier games.

It really annoys me people saying how dead JRPGs are or how much they suck without having touched something like an Atelier, shin megami tensei gAme or Tactics Ogre and praise yet can praise the story of juvenile fantasy stuff like Mass Effect ( which is not to say it's not a good game and there's plenty of JRPGs that fall back on tropes the way bioware games do )

In what way was Mass Effect's story juvenile?

I have yet to see a JRPG execute such a complex and diverse world(s) as well as ME did.

I worry sometimes a JRPG touches on one slightly emotive or controversial issue (say the gay guy in Person 4) and you forget that half the story is about hanging with your teenage friends in the mall and discussing the teenage hangups of Japanese adolescents in the most clichéd fashion possible.

calex71

Just finished chapter 2 on FF Type 0 struggling to warm to it but it's not a bad game as such just don't like the large roster of the party at all, actually found myself struggling to hit some enemies as I don't have any ranged characters available.

My eyes are hurting from that bloody camera :mad:

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

In what way was Mass Effect's story juvenile?

It's the same fantasy mono myth used constantly by fantasy writers and bioware. An ancient evil returns threatening to destroy the world. There's an ancient race that leaves clues about this threat and was wiped out. And a band of heroes must be assembled to take on this evil.

It also uses the same bioware trope characters used since Baldurs Gate. http://www.gamesradar.com/recycled-characters-you-see-in-every-bioware-game/

Most of the races fut into standard fantasy races as well with space elves, dwarves, orcs etc all present and correct.

It's like Star Wars, a space opera which is just a standard fantasy story with a sci fi reskin. Nothing wrong with that and it's worked for bioware for a long time but it's not big or clever. Also world building that needs terms of codex entries is bad design and bad writing.

Also japanese RPGs are guilty of following their own tropes as well, look at how many FF games have a villain appear out of now where, that villain is God and you've got to kill him. And just like JRPGs which have original stories and settings like tactics Ogre, Xenoblade and Persona you have western RPGs like fallout new vegas, alpha protocol and planescape torment.

johnny_ultimate

While there are still JRPGs I like and some I love, I too find myself disconnected from the scene a lot these days. The approach to narrative is certainly one aspect. I just find there's little nuance or art to the writing in most RPGs (and visual novels), even acclaimed ones. I mostly mean that in terms of the delivery - clunky, overlong cutscenes and reams of exposition getting in the way of the good stuff, or not doing it sufficient justice. A long, challenging novel I will usually appreciate because of the quality of the prose, richness of the characterisation and some thematic complexity, but in JRPGs there's just so much bloat obscuring the interesting material - and the payoffs are rarely anywhere near as interesting or complex as a good book, film or (increasingly) Western 'indie' games. Like seriously if a narrative hasn't kicked off after 60 hours - two and a half days of your life! - then there's fundamental storytelling issues there, regardless of how satisfying the eventual payoff. This has become especially apparent now that we have games that are delivering well-paced, efficient and formally adventurous stories.

And there's also the tonal issues, too. The Kill Screen review of Type-0 elegantly sums up the way I feel about many Japanese game narratives, how their serious intentions are often sharply contrasted with boring anime excess:

Type-0 shows that Final Fantasy, despite its best efforts, probably doesn’t know how to grow up in the way it wants to—that it can only grasp at greater dramatic impact even as its battle systems are further refined, its attempts to dig something out of the ancient muck of a subject as heavy as war itself constantly curtailed by concessions to the iconography of its past. Bloody chocobos, tactician moogles, school kids with great hair delivering barely coherent monologues on determinism while fighting to overthrow anime Nazis. It’s Mickey Mouse and Goofy fixing bayonets before going over the top; it’s Elmer Fudd field dressing Bugs Bunny’s buckshot corpse; it’s a well-animated Saturday morning cartoon about dead children that isn’t exactly sure what it’s trying to say.

This obviously leads in to the fact that many RPGs are games first and stories second, but I think similar criticisms apply. While I enjoyed my dozen or so hours with Xenoblade, the timesink aspect of it was IMO turning in to a massive turn-off, almost like a chore. I think that extends to a lot of JRPGs too - they're such massive commitments, with so much busywork. I'm enjoying Persona Q a lot, but more than 40 hours in I also have to wonder is there really anything that couldn't have been covered more viscerally in half that amount of time? It has been a long time since the battle system or enemies have really tested me, let alone surprised me - the game's rhythm has been atonal for hours now. And minus the rich writing of the parent series, the extended running time feels less convincing.

It's funny, I'm playing South Park: The Stick of Truth at the moment and strangely enough that seems to me like the model many RPGs should be looking at. Don't get me wrong: the battle system is rudimentary, and the writing predictably adolescent - it's ****ing South Park after all. Yet there's a beautiful efficiency to the game design as well. Subquests that only take up a few minutes of your time, and are always manageable with plenty of humour and character to boot. There's plenty of well-handled RPG traditions employed. The story, ridiculous as it is, benefits from the same leanness of design - pacy, efficient and never overstays its welcome. Put simply the game flows incredibly well, and never feels like it's demanding your time. To be perfectly honest, it's one of the most refreshing, vibrant RPGs I've played in years. When a game delivers that sort of energy while still providing a wholly satisfying 'game' too, I have to wonder why many JRPGs take three or four times as long to achieve a diluted version of the same thing. If there's one problem with so, so many JRPGs - from Dragon Quest to Earthbound, Xenoblade to Shin Megami Tensei - it's that they have so many pleasures but almost always overstay their welcome in some fundamental respect.

Retr0gamer

With regards tonal issues that's always been a problem with final fantasy since ff7 and with anime being extremely bad in this regard you start to see it rub off a lot more in lesser RPGs and stuff like NISA's output but again there's also a lot of examples of mature storytelling in JRPGs as well with the likes of Xenoblade, smt4 and the atelier series.

As for game length I'm also increasingly getting annoyed with games that take far too long to beat. While I loved Xenoblade I really had to go out of my way to make time to finish that game and the same for Fallout New Vegas. I'm playing FF7 now and that game could have had significant cuts and been a whole lot better paced and lost nothing except some annoying fetch quests and crappy character arcs that add nothing.

It's telling that the RPGs I enjoy the most now are more concise, the likes of SMT4, Mother 3, Panzer Dragoon Saga and the Atelier series all clock in around the 20-25 hour mark yet still manage to tell more complex stories than most 80+ hour ones.

I played about 3 hours of South Park recently and well, I found the systems and everything so uninteresting that I haven't gone back to it.

penev10

Atelier Ayesha Plus (Vita) is on sale on PSN for €22.49. Couldn't resist at that price.

Questionable?

Famitsu DS+Wii teased a big new Nintendo game in this months edition, will be announced in next months one,
Would love to see Dragon Quest XI announced, hopefully being similar to VIII on the PS2.

Sephiroth_dude

penev10 wrote: »

Atelier Ayesha Plus (Vita) is on sale on PSN for €22.49. Couldn't resist at that price.

Tempted to get that, I already have it on ps3 though but that doesn't work anymore.

Xenji

Atlus just announced that they will be bringing over Stella Glow to the US this year, glad now I got my new 3DS now from the US. Imageepoch are a bit hit and miss, but I have some high hope for this as it has an interesting story and battle mechanics.

elekid

imitation wrote: »

Was tempted by the though of picking up Type-0, but its 60-70 quid in B&M games shops.I think I'll hold tough, I'm feeling there is going to be a lot of trade ins after people finish the demo..

I got Type-0 for €59.50 in Argos today, I'm looking forward to playing it over Easter

Retr0gamer

Hardcore Gaming 101's weekly Kusoge section has been updated with Final Fantasy 6. Well played lads!

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/kusoge/kusoge-finalfantasy6.htm