JRPG general discussion

Retr0gamer

Played some more FF7 today. Went through Cosmo canyon and then Nibelheim, although all I did there was unlock Vincent. The whole sequence I the observatory is still stunning, I remember loving it when I played the game first. However the whole Cosmo Canyon sequence isn't fun. The battle system really starts to big the game down now with animations that take forever. That gets even worse once you hit Shinra Mansion. It's driving me nuts now with how slow it is. Definitely not s fun few hours. Also the whole RedXIII story sequence is really dumb.

noodler wrote: »

Screen too small on PSP with 4:3 and widescreen makes text very sore on the eyes.

I was messing around with the Vita today. If you hold in the ps button you get options to customise the PS1 game you are playing. You can turn off bilinear filtering which is a must for 2D games and you can also zoom the screen to make it bigger although you do lose 1:1 pixel definition.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Played some more FF7 today. Went through Cosmo canyon and then Nibelheim, although all I did there was unlock Vincent. The whole sequence I the observatory is still stunning, I remember loving it when I played the game first. However the whole Cosmo Canyon sequence isn't fun. The battle system really starts to big the game down now with animations that take forever. That gets even worse once you hit Shinra Mansion. It's driving me nuts now with how slow it is. Definitely not s fun few hours. Also the whole RedXIII story sequence is really dumb.



I was messing around with the Vita today. If you hold in the ps button you get options to customise the PS1 game you are playing. You can turn off bilinear filtering which is a must for 2D games and you can also zoom the screen to make it bigger although you do lose 1:1 pixel definition.

Only a psp sadly!

From playing suikoden 2 I do appreciate the way physical attacks overlap somewhat rather than having to wait for one to finish before another ends. Load times are also very good, I assume that has nothing to do with the digital nature of my copy.

Other parts are slow though. Spell animations in general take an age., resurrection is particularly bad. Six characters is interesting for big boss battles but definitely feels like overkill in the extreme when facing normal enemies (particularly easy ones who still don't have a "let go" option).

I feel that a basic fire vs all attack in ff7 is much quicker although obviously summons take an age compared to suki 2.

I love the nibelheim bit myself altho translation may have been a slight letdown in retrospect when it came to the scenes with the town imposters . Suikoden 2 feels well translated generally but seems to be partly due to a lack of ambition in a way. Dialogue is kept brief, context is barely touched upon (and I'm not talking about what I've missed from not playing suikoden 1) and sometimes you can't follow the logic tree of characters when they explain the next move, shu for example.

I'm just finished in Tinto after saying Neoclod. Boss battles are a bit of let down compared to say... Ni No Kuni!! I agree with a lot of what you said about that game but boss fights were fairly epic with plenty of game overs. Only died once in this when I essentially killed myself.

Also went to Toran today and it's the first time I really wish I had played the first game beforehand - the place was dripping with a historical background I wanted to know more about. Still might play the original.

I do like that Luca appears to be evil for evil's sake rather than in an FF game when you find out some one made the initial antagonist do it or was controlling him.

(Seph, seifer, edea, Queen brahne etc)

The game really really reminds me of FF9. I know it's traditional jrpg story, but I love war storyline with multiple countries and political systems. Very WW1 like. I wish the game told me a bit more about the different cities or factions tho, this a little skin deep.

K.O.Kiki

50% off on pre-orders for PS3 disc release of the Tales of Symphonia Chronicles + Tales of Graces f compilation.

http://www.ricedigital.co.uk/store/tales-symphonia-tales-graces-f-ps3

Symphonia, Symphonia: Dawn of the New World + Graces f for £15!

Retr0gamer

Well I always hated th Cosmo canyon sequence and the shinra mansion and so far it's the only point in the game were the battle system has really gotten on my nerves. There are some enemies in these areas that just take the piss with Attack animations, one two headed one in the shinra mansion basement takes about 20 seconds to wind up to casting a spell or the game saying he is 'happy'. I guess I'm too used to Atlus games were they make the battles as speedy as possible. I'll probably venture into Nibelheim if I play it today, I don't have any bad memories there other than my first game over with that enemy that uses Trine

Back to Suikoden 2 the battle system really isn't the strong point at all in that game However at least it doesn't get in the way like say Legend of Dragoon. It's a weird game, I usually like a bit of mechanical depth in my games and feel that a story isn't enough to carry a game without it but Suikoden 2 flies in the face of that. Boss battles aren't great, more a battle of attrition to see if you can kill the boss before your spells are exhausted, it's usually balanced so that you always have just enough.

Tirana does indeed have a lot of connections to the first game, it's where the first game starts and ends there's lots of returning characters there and if you have a save file with 108 characters from the first game you can do a small sidequests to recruit the hero of the first game.

As for Luca Blight, I think what makes him so effective is that he could well be real. There's no magical trickery, he's just a psychopath that was in a position of power and used it to go on a genocidal rampage. The world has had too many of them in the past. It is hinted in the game what traumatised him to become mad and it might explain it more in the japanese version but it explains why his hatred is aimed at the city states, although it in no way excuses it. You can kind of piece it together from what he says. It implies that Annabelles father was the person that sowed the seeds that started the conflict. It's worth reading up on if you are interested after the game.

super_furry

Playing through Suikoden at the moment, seems more of a slog and less interesting than i remember but that may be because I'm looking forward to finish it so I can start Suikoden 2.

Tempted to pick up FFVI on the Vita because I've never really played more than a couples of hours of it, but is it really that unplayable with the load times?

RedXIV

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

50% off on pre-orders for PS3 disc release of the Tales of Symphonia Chronicles + Tales of Graces f compilation.

http://www.ricedigital.co.uk/store/tales-symphonia-tales-graces-f-ps3

Symphonia, Symphonia: Dawn of the New World + Graces f for £15!

Just about finished tales of graces F, it's not a bad game for anyone to dive into, very nice graphically to look at with a fairly complex battle system

Retr0gamer

super_furry wrote: »

Playing through Suikoden at the moment, seems more of a slog and less interesting than i remember but that may be because I'm looking forward to finish it so I can start Suikoden 2.

Tempted to pick up FFVI on the Vita because I've never really played more than a couples of hours of it, but is it really that unplayable with the load times?

I've seen the usgamer crew playing it and saying it was far more of a slog than they remember and then commenting on just how much Suikoden 2 is once they started on that.

I'd definitely recommend against the PS1 version of FF6. The load times take a lot of enjoyment out of it and make saving Edge near impossible. To top it off the music sounds really off as well. Definitely stay away from the PS1 version.

noodler

Retr0.

Have you heard anything about Suikoden 1 pal version ntsc? Google gave me nothing. Wondering If I should go us store or not.

Nearly done with 2.

Retr0gamer

PAL version is slower and has boarders but you can only export a PAL Suikoden 1 save to a PAL Suikoden 2 and the same with NTSC. I'd use that really to judge what to get.

imitation

Random question time, what are the best remake ports of final fantasy iii and iv? I can basically take my pick of android, pc, vita or 3ds.

Also is the ff 6 psudeo remake on android worth it or are one of the originals better?

Retr0gamer

PC for FF3 although to be honest the best way to play FF3 is with a fan translated Rom. The battles in FF3 remake are really slow and have pretty annoying loading time to boot which makes the game a bit of a chore. The Famicom original is still by far the best way to play the game even if it has one game breaking bug (make sure you have at least 2 Dragoons in your party immediately as they are available!). However the game is a bit crap. The job system is just not very good and it wouldn't be until FF5 where they made it into something really special. Old jobs are totally redundant when new jobs are available.

As for FF4 there's really 2 versions you need to play. The PSP remake is pretty much the Japanese version of the SNES original with prettier graphics. It's an fantastic game and well worth playing and one of the best RPGs ever made. Just don't bother with the after years part of the game, it's bull****. The other version us the DS/PC version with the 3D graphics. This version is a remake in the sense that Resident Evil Remake is a remake of Resi1. They changed the boss encounters, added new cinemas and rebalanced the battle system. It's a very different experience to the original and therefore both are worth playing. The PC version is the best in this case.

Not sure about the ff6 remake.

Retr0gamer

Another FFVII update.

Went through Nibelheim mountains. This place seems kind of throwaway, it adds nothing to the story really and even the other throwaway dungeon before golden saucer had some great visual touches to spice it up, this one doesn't. However after the last two slogs this one at least was quite fun with a good boss even if there were annoying moments when I got stuck on the scenery.

Next was Rocket town. I quite like the story behind this place and Heidegger getting hit by the truck was a laugh. Nice to see the game not taking itself seriously and having a bit of fun.

Got the Tiny Bronco but really it doesn't open up much new other than Wutai. Wutai still feels woefully out of place in the FFVII world, it's like they had the renders done and had to use them. The Yuffie sidequest was pretty silly but a lot of fun despite her ruining my materia set up. The Turks on vacation set up was great as well and nice to see another side of them. Not going to bother with the five Pagodas until I get reflect on some materia.

Next up was a return to gold saucer and the infamous date sequence. I got Aeris as usual, never gotten anyone else before. I just can't be mean to her. The whole date sequence is great fun. Messing up the play is a blast and the tram ride is still visually stunning. The macguffin hunt for the keystone finally ends here when you are betrayed by Cait Sith. What a prick. I feel the whole find the keystone hunt a place where FFVII is still hanging on to the trappings of old school RPGs.

I have to comment on Golden Saucer. While I feel all the mini games in it are utterly abhorrent and terrible the place really fits into the FFVII universe the way Wutai doesn't. There is one exception to the bad minigames and that's Battle Square. Battle Square is probably the only place in the game were you really have to play around and game the systems and its a lot of fun doing so.

Speaking of the battle system it still isn't impressing. The speed of it is just so slow that it's annoying and the enemies just are not threatening at all and only really serve to annoy the player with overlong attack animations or annoying status effects. Waiting in the attack queue while the enemy gets a few hits in does my head in, even if it is a fair approach. I can actually see how this aspect turned a few people away from the game.

Next up the Temple of the Ancients which I remember being a pain in the arse.

Varik

Seen the summons for 15, impressively large.

Zapp Brannigan

Who's picking up Type 0?

I'm undecided on it.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Another FFVII update.

Went through Nibelheim mountains. This place seems kind of throwaway, it adds nothing to the story really and even the other throwaway dungeon before golden saucer had some great visual touches to spice it up, this one doesn't. However after the last two slogs this one at least was quite fun with a good boss even if there were annoying moments when I got stuck on the scenery.

Next was Rocket town. I quite like the story behind this place and Heidegger getting hit by the truck was a laugh. Nice to see the game not taking itself seriously and having a bit of fun.

Got the Tiny Bronco but really it doesn't open up much new other than Wutai. Wutai still feels woefully out of place in the FFVII world, it's like they had the renders done and had to use them. The Yuffie sidequest was pretty silly but a lot of fun despite her ruining my materia set up. The Turks on vacation set up was great as well and nice to see another side of them. Not going to bother with the five Pagodas until I get reflect on some materia.

Next up was a return to gold saucer and the infamous date sequence. I got Aeris as usual, never gotten anyone else before. I just can't be mean to her. The whole date sequence is great fun. Messing up the play is a blast and the tram ride is still visually stunning. The macguffin hunt for the keystone finally ends here when you are betrayed by Cait Sith. What a prick. I feel the whole find the keystone hunt a place where FFVII is still hanging on to the trappings of old school RPGs.

I have to comment on Golden Saucer. While I feel all the mini games in it are utterly abhorrent and terrible the place really fits into the FFVII universe the way Wutai doesn't. There is one exception to the bad minigames and that's Battle Square. Battle Square is probably the only place in the game were you really have to play around and game the systems and its a lot of fun doing so.

Speaking of the battle system it still isn't impressing. The speed of it is just so slow that it's annoying and the enemies just are not threatening at all and only really serve to annoy the player with overlong attack animations or annoying status effects. Waiting in the attack queue while the enemy gets a few hits in does my head in, even if it is a fair approach. I can actually see how this aspect turned a few people away from the game.

Next up the Temple of the Ancients which I remember being a pain in the arse.

Do you not think Nibelheim mountain is important in terms of the kalm flashback?

I thought Wutai made sense. It's on a different continent, isolated, had warred with Midgar/Shinra

Loved battle square and snowboarding and motorbiking and chocolate racing (altho having to wait for a race you bet on to finish would drive me mad now)

Didn't enjoy temple of the ancients either.

Loved the Wutai yuffie pagoda though. Not tough if you use the right materia.

Regarding suikoden 1, I took it as a give ntsc would run better. Was more wondering had you heard of any translation issues etc improved in pal version like there were in 2?

Retr0gamer

Nibelheim is I portent in the Kalm flashback but the revisit just seems to have very little effort put into it, it feels very much like an area they put little effort into when you return although to be fair it's a good dungeon, just feels like they could have done more with it rather than have it as just an area to delay you until the next section.

Wutai, while I really enjoy the content, feels really like a place that was shoved into FF7 because they have the renders and really feels out of place compared to places like Midgar, Junon, golden saucer etc. as developers from square said they had a load of renders made up and just shoved them into the main game and built the story around it and Wutai feels very much like one of those places. For somewhere that is meant to be a war torn nation from maybe 10 years ago there's really nothing there to suggest that.

Yuffies pagoda side quest is good except for the fact it's stolen wholesale from FF4. The boss patterns and how you beat the, are exactly the same as his you gain the secret summons from FF4. It's a theme that runs through FF7, what isn't stole from FF6 is a blatant copy of Chrono Trigger. It doesn't make it a bad game though. I'd go so far as to say it was a clever decision that Ken Levine also pulled off with Bioshock. Both games were grossly over schedule and budget and to save on that and actually release a product Square pretty much took elemtents from their old games in the same way Bioshock was a remake of System Shock 2.

You really need to play those golden saucer mini games again, they really aren't fun. The framerates really kill them. I'm not looking forward to raising chocobos for the secrets!

I am enjoying how utterly weird the whole game is now. I'm out of my teenage phase when I wanted this game to be taken so seriously and it's really great to see how much fun the developers had with it despite all the pressure they were under to make a game that actually worked. It's definitely these moments that have been the most fun.

Regarding Suiokden, the translation is the same on PAL as NTSC but the U.S. version has the correct aspect ratio and speed. Again it's not too big a deal with Suikoden but you have to take into account you can't transfer a NTSC S1 save to S2.

imitation

I have finished ff8 after years of playing on-off. I was overjoyed to beat it, but for the first time with a final fantasy game I didnt really care much about the ending. It's probably because it took me an insane 80 hours to finish it. I crippled myself at the start by not junctioning gf's correctly and summon spamming and missing a few random gfs. After I righted that as best could and farming up bahamut, I was able to get to ultimecia relatively easily. She did get me the first time because i missed killing the section she draws apocolypse from. Also has like 2 complete fails because, 1. I junctioned bio which heals phase 2, thanks random guide, 2. I lionhearted without healin in phase 2

The biggest failing I think is the clumsyness of the gf/magic/junction menus. After every plot point your spending 5 minutes because junction exchange didnt work for some random reason, or you need a particular setup but your missing a spell you need to refine. Its all so tedious. I played the psone version on a vita, I found it was slow to load as well as at almost every screen change, I defintely reccomend the pc version or an emulator you can speed boost a bit.

johnny_ultimate

Well, FFXV's summoning is quite interesting :pac: I'm pretty sure this is what they were trying to do on the PS1, but were a few generations too early.

Link for those of you willing to be spoiled: http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xvs-summon-will-blow-your-damn-mind-1691924228

Retr0gamer

Ah FF8 isn't that bad once you know what you are doing. The problem is figuring out how to play the game properly in the first place. Junctioning spells and prioritising GF permanent buff abilities are the most important thing and really summoning is the weakest form of Attack if you are playing it right.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Well, FFXV's summoning is quite interesting :pac: I'm pretty sure this is what they were trying to do on the PS1, but were a few generations too early.

Link for those of you willing to be spoiled: http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xvs-summon-will-blow-your-damn-mind-1691924228

It looks cool but really take away the pyrotechnics and its just a high damage attack. It's a step backwards from ffX and 12 which actually tried something new.

raze_them_all_

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Ah FF8 isn't that bad once you know what you are doing. The problem is figuring out how to play the game properly in the first place. Junctioning spells and prioritising GF permanent buff abilities are the most important thing and really summoning is the weakest form of Attack if you are playing it right.



It looks cool but really take away the pyrotechnics and its just a high damage attack. It's a step backwards from ffX and 12 which actually tried something new.

I like it tbh. I always thought summons were too small. I am dyi g to see shiva and ifrit now considering ramuh was never any use! To be honest though this is my last investment into final fantasy if this one is ****e

raze_them_all_

imitation wrote: »

I have finished ff8 after years of playing on-off. I was overjoyed to beat it, but for the first time with a final fantasy game I didnt really care much about the ending. It's probably because it took me an insane 80 hours to finish it. I crippled myself at the start by not junctioning gf's correctly and summon spamming and missing a few random gfs. After I righted that as best could and farming up bahamut, I was able to get to ultimecia relatively easily. She did get me the first time because i missed killing the section she draws apocolypse from. Also has like 2 complete fails because, 1. I junctioned bio which heals phase 2, thanks random guide, 2. I lionhearted without healin in phase 2

The biggest failing I think is the clumsyness of the gf/magic/junction menus. After every plot point your spending 5 minutes because junction exchange didnt work for some random reason, or you need a particular setup but your missing a spell you need to refine. Its all so tedious. I played the psone version on a vita, I found it was slow to load as well as at almost every screen change, I defintely reccomend the pc version or an emulator you can speed boost a bit.

Spoken like someone who didn abuse the **** out of triple triad

noodler

Need to buy a US psn card to buy Suki 1 from us store?

First time, can anyone recommend anywhere reputable?

Retr0gamer

Playasia will sell digitally but with a mark up. You can use Amazon.com as well apparently but not tried it and you'll get them at cost.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Playasia will sell digitally but with a mark up. You can use Amazon.com as well apparently but not tried it and you'll get them at cost.

I had to change my billing address to a US one.... But it seems to have worked..

Edit. Yup downloading now.

Cheers!

Chrono Trigger worth getting? Never played many ps1 rpgs

noodler

Oh and that all means I finished Suikoden 2.

Got a bad ending but still... Meh.

Jowie was a very poorly thought our character, his motivations made no sense.

Enjoyed it overall though.

Retr0gamer

Avoid the PS1 port of Chrono Trigger. It's by the same group that ported FF4-6 on PS1 and suffers even worse than those games from load times and crap music. The DS port is the one to get, they did a stellar job of that.

Regarding Jowy:

It's not explained well because of the poor translation but

Luka threatened to kill his family if he didn't work as a spy but gained his trust killing Annabelle and doing other deeds. That's his first motivation.

After that he thought that he could end the war from inside Highland. If he removes Luka Blight then he can end the war. When he accomplishes that he realises he is in too deep and can't just hand over the state to the rebel army, he has to see the war out to the end. You can't just decide to end a war like that when you have other commanders and the people of the nation with a voice. He's also pretty commited to the Kingdom of Highland (his home nation might I add) by that point what with being the ruler and having married Jillia.

The bad ending in my opinion is the better ending. Jowy really doesn't deserve redemption for what he did and it feels like a cop out after how dark the rest of the game is.

Retr0gamer

You might be very disappointed with Suikoden 1. S2 was a massive improvement on that game. It could be a bit like going from Persona 4 to Persona 3 which iirc you did and didn't enjoy.

noodler

I never even remember it being implied that Luca had threatened his family. Although there was some dude in Muse talking to Jowie before he assassinated lady Anabellle. Maybe that's where the implicit threat came from.

The rest is tosh imo. If you know more from the Japanese game that backs up Jowie ''s motivations once he is with Highland, then fair enough but otherwise it's simply an interpretation that one couldn't really get from the English translation.

You might be right about Suikoden 1. Graphics are a bit worse. Just starting. Will see how far I get.

I thought p4 and p3 were identical bar the ability to control other characters tbh.

I just enjoyed P4's unique dungeons and story more.

Xenji

Been doing a lot of travelling in the last week and brought Tokyo Twilight Ghost Hunters with me, I must say I was very surprised how good it ended up being, the art style is beautiful and it actually has a good story, the battle mechanics were quite confusing at the beginning but once you figure them out, they are very rewarding.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

The rest is tosh imo. If you know more from the Japanese game that backs up Jowie ''s motivations once he is with Highland, then fair enough but otherwise it's simply an interpretation that one couldn't really get from the English translation

Nope it's all there. As Joey said

he only wanted to be rid of Luca Blight but realised after a while that the world is a lot more complicated than that. Luca also says that even if he dies you're still left with a Highland reeling from defeat and baying for blood. In real life things are a lot more complex than just removing the big bad and everything is back to normal.

Jowy and the MC just represented two different conflicting ways of ending the war.