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Skangers on RTE news now

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    #362
    Thepredator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭Thepredator


    MoonDancer wrote: »
    Thepredator wrote: »
    Ah Sure he showed remorse so i can understand the three years being taken off!

    This shouldn't even be a deciding factor in the sentence, any solicitor can tell their defendant to apologise just so they get a lower sentence. It doesn't mean they mean it!

    I completely agree with you.


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    #363
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    He imposed a 12-year sentence on him. He pointed out that he had just begun a three-year sentence for another crime, meaning he would really serve only an extra nine years for Mr Rzeszutko’s killing.

    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-man-jailed-for-life-for-mindless-and-savage-murder-545575.html#ixzz1qbY2zUp5

    What an absolute disgrace. Sentences should be consecutive ffs. :mad: Commit one crime, do 12 years. Commit two crimes.....do 12 years.


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    #364
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Dubit10 wrote: »
    So life for one = Out in ?
    12 for another = Out in 9
    6 for another = Out in 4.5

    Some country alright.

    FYP

    For the lifer, the Minister for Justice has the final say, he has no right to ever be released. Average of 17 years before being considered for release, would imagine he'll be way, way above average, would be very surprised if he doesn't do at lest a quarter century.

    The other two were obviously taken as being less dangerous, who just went along with the main guy, who's clearly a completely psycho.

    Worth noting that the lowest one is basically retarded, falling in the bottom 4% of the population.

    Worth noting, also, that the sentence for the second is 12 years for this crime. The fact that the first three years run concurrently to another sentence doesn't change this fact.


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    #365
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    prinz wrote: »
    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-man-jailed-for-life-for-mindless-and-savage-murder-545575.html#ixzz1qbY2zUp5

    What an absolute disgrace. Sentences should be consecutive ffs. :mad: Commit one crime, do 12 years. Commit two crimes.....do 12 years.


    In this case totally agree with you.


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    #366
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    benway wrote: »
    FYP

    For the lifer, the Minister for Justice has the final say, he has no right to ever be released. Average of 17 years before being considered for release, would imagine he'll be way, way above average, would be very surprised if he doesn't do at lest a quarter century.

    The other two were obviously taken as being less dangerous, who just went along with the main guy, who's clearly a completely psycho.

    Worth noting that the lowest one is basically retarded, falling in the bottom 4% of the population.

    Worth noting, also, that the sentence for the second is 12 years for this crime. The fact that the first three years run concurrently to another sentence doesn't change this fact.

    Yeah it is worth noting that concurrent sentences are a f***ing joke and a total waste of time. If we can't put them down, these animals should be locked in a cage and left there for good.


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    #367
    daRobot
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    Guys read the article, it's technically a life sentence, but far from Life
    He said that if he thought a life sentence would stand the test of the Court of Criminal Appeal, he would have no hesitation in imposing it. However, he noted that he must impose a finite sentence.

    He said he instead considered the appropriate sentence for such a killing to be 15 years in prison.

    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-man-jailed-for-life-for-mindless-and-savage-murder-545575.html#ixzz1qbh6MEKf

    So you get 15 years for murder in this Banana republic of ours. What an absolute fcuking discgrace. No wonder scumbags feel impervious to the law.


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    #368
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    daRobot wrote: »
    Guys read the article, it's technically a life sentence, but far from Life



    So you get 15 years for murder in this Banana republic of ours. What an absolute fcuking discgrace. No wonder scumbags feel impervious to the law.

    Nope, that's the sentence before mitigation for the two manslaughter convictions, judges don't set a tariff for life sentences in this country.

    Seems that some of you are very keen to downplay the severity of these sentences.


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    #369
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    benway wrote: »
    Seems that some of you are very keen to downplay the severity of these sentences.

    One sentence has the possibility of being 'severe' in the long term. The other two are not severe at all considering the crime.


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    #370
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    daRobot wrote: »
    Guys read the article, it's technically a life sentence, but far from Life



    So you get 15 years for murder in this Banana republic of ours. What an absolute fcuking discgrace. No wonder scumbags feel impervious to the law.


    In fairness to the Judge, you might have put in bold the bit above that. If he sentences outside of the norm, it'll be knocked down.


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    #371
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Nodin wrote: »
    In fairness to the Judge, you might have put in bold the bit above that. If he sentences outside of the norm, it'll be knocked down.

    He doesn't seem best pleased with the DPP's role either.


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    #372
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    prinz wrote: »
    One sentence has the possibility of being 'severe' in the long term. The other two are not severe at all considering the crime.

    Do you know for certain that the other two even laid a hand on the poor misfortunate? Even just being there with the main guy could ground a manslaughter conviction.

    The DPP accepted the manslaughter pleas for two of them, but not the third, and judge sat through all the evidence and reached this conclusion. I wouldn't be so keen to second guess them without reading the file or sitting through the trial.

    In passing, from experience, I don't think Judge White is any kind of wooly liberal, either.

    Two separate posters have tried to make these sentences out to be shorter than they are in reality, so I think it's a fair point.


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    #373
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    daRobot wrote: »
    Guys read the article, it's technically a life sentence, but far from Life



    So you get 15 years for murder in this Banana republic of ours. What an absolute fcuking discgrace. No wonder scumbags feel impervious to the law.

    No. The judge would have liked to give life to the two 'lesser' manslaughter scumbags, but didn't think it would hold up on appeal so he gave 9 and 15 years, with 3 of each suspended.


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    #374
    daRobot
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    benway wrote: »
    Nope, that's the sentence before mitigation for the two manslaughter convictions, judges don't set a tariff for life sentences in this country.

    And you know this based on what exactly?


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    #375
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Based on knowing how sentencing works in reality. The judge fixes the sentence first, by reference to the gravity of the offence and the maximum permitted sentence, then applies mitigation, or any aggravating factors. A life sentence can only be handed down for manslaughter in very limited circumstances, has happened once in recent years. I can point you to the relevant case law if you like.


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    #376
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    prinz wrote: »
    Commit one crime, do 12 years. Commit two crimes.....do 12 years.

    This has always baffled me. The incentive that it creates is ridiculous. Buy one, get one free.


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    #377
    daRobot
    Registered Users Posts: 2,380 ✭✭✭daRobot


    > Benway

    Well if it is as you say, then i'm certainly happy that he'll be joining Malcolm MacArthur & co.


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    #378
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    benway wrote: »
    Bullsh!t.

    How so ?
    I stated a fact.


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    #379
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Pal wrote: »
    How so ?
    I stated a fact.

    You were factually incorrect. The main perpetrator got life, there is no possibility of a life sentence for tax evasion.

    daRobot wrote: »
    > Benway

    Well if it is as you say, then i'm certainly happy that he'll be joining Malcolm MacArthur & co.

    I have no doubt but that he will.


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    #380
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    Stephen Byrne was sentenced to 6 years for manslaughter.
    Paul Begley was sentenced to 6 years for tax evasion.

    Both facts.


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    #381
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    Pal wrote: »
    Stephen Byrne was sentenced to 6 years for manslaughter.
    Paul Begley was sentenced to 6 years for tax evasion.

    Both facts.

    First if all, he was sentenced to 9 years with three suspended. Secondly, you said "stamping in someone's head" - there's no evidence that he did this, you can be convicted of manslaughter without ever laying a finger on the victim, if you go along with the attackers.

    The main attacker in this case got life, that's the benchmark.

    While I'm at it, I'm more than comfortable with 6 years for a multimillion fraud, just hope it sends a message to other scumbags out there.


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    #382
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    benway wrote: »
    First if all, he was sentenced to 9 years with three suspended. Secondly, you said "stamping in someone's head" - there's no evidence that he did this, you can be convicted of manslaughter without ever laying a finger on the victim, if you go along with the attackers.

    The main attacker in this case got life, that's the benchmark.
    9 years = 'life' in prison. Christ almighty.

    Any idea why the judge would have suspended three years - that part I really don't get.


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    #383
    benway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭benway


    One of the attackers got life - he's the one who stomped on the victim's head.

    Life means indefinite detention at the discretion of the Minister for Justice. The Parole Board can recommend that any lifer be released, having assessed them, but the Minister is under no obligation to sign off on it. On average, a life prisoner serves 17 years before getting a recommendation, even for temporary release, and at that the Minister still has the final say.

    The guy who got nine years is borderline retarded, and had the least involvement in it. He went to the Gardaí, confessed and put his mates in for it, has shown real remorse, and didn't deliver the fatal blows. That's why he received a lighter sentence.

    Have you read the rest of this thread at all?

    Some of you seem determined to make out that they got off lightly, I don't think there's any basis for that in reality. Personally, I think the sentences here seem about right.


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    #384
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    dark crystal wrote: »
    9 years = 'life' in prison. Christ almighty.

    Any idea why the judge would have suspended three years - that part I really don't get.

    There were 3 of them not 2.

    Martin was done for murder and got Life i.e. he's locked up until a parole board recommends his release and the minister for justice releases him.

    The Byrne brothers were given 12 years and 9 years respectively with 3 of the 9 suspended.
    “Balancing his greater involvement but better record, I should not differentiate. It seems to me nine years is appropriate,” he said. However, he said to give him hope, he would suspend the final three years of the sentence.
    Irish Times


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    #385
    jonomartin
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭jonomartin


    The cost per prisoner is €70513 in 2010 cited from
    http://www.inis.gov.ie/

    The current prison population is 4,284 (2nd March 2012) stated on http://www.iprt.ie/


    This means most people who go to prison normally have more then one conviction or related legal actions before committing the subsequent crime that lands them in prison.

    My logic stems from the fact judges must take into account that it costs the state approx €8,000 per annum to give someone a social welfare payment or €70513 to place them in prison for one year

    and yes I do know not everyone who commits crimes is on the dole of course and I myself am from a rough area in Dublin all my life so I'm not making this point as something to attack ppl there with, but statistically we all know if you're from a socially deprived area it's more likely for young men and women to fall into vices and societies that lead to a greater chance of coming into contact with the authorities.


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    #386
    jonomartin
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭jonomartin


    I question if it would be better to make these penal inmates work off their debt literally to society and make them work in prison until they can clear the cost of their incarceration. at least then if someone is out early you may assume they have literally and personally repaid society for their crimes and maybe learned something to change their own character so as not to wish to commit such crimes again.


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    #387
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    jonomartin wrote: »
    I question if it would be better to make these penal inmates work off their debt literally to society and make them work in prison until they can clear the cost of their incarceration. at least then if someone is out early you may assume they have literally and personally repaid society for their crimes and maybe learned something to change their own character so as not to wish to commit such crimes again.

    Yeah they should be put out in a chain gang like in America to do some hard labour. Prisons are way too cushy here in Ireland. I know someone who was locked up for assault. There was a TV, dvd and playstation in the cell.


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    #388
    jonomartin
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭jonomartin


    well the chain gang maybe excessive! but make them work for cost in an area Ireland may not be able to compete fiscally with the rest of europe and push in the "free" labour.
    I know its not free but you get my point

    we lose millions a year looking after these people, who in the most part contribute nothing to society in normal life.

    also the point was made during the london riots of cutting welfare payments for ppl who cause problems to others.

    I agree with this social welfare is a service alot of ppl genuinely need, i'm in college myself on back to education allowance, but if u make no effort to better you're self then that should be taken into account.
    Idle hands do the devils work


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    #389
    Adrift
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭Adrift


    Some of you seem determined to make out that they got off lightly, I don't think there's any basis for that in reality

    The other lads did get off lightly. Stephen intigated the whole thing, and was the first to accost Lukasz. Just because they didn't deliver the fatal blow doesn't mean they played a lesser part in a horrific crime. When something like that happens, anyone can deliver the fatal blow. You shouldn't be involved in the act in the first place, so in my opinion they're getting off lightly. They all took the concious decision to give the poor chap as they put it "A few Slaps".

    I'm pretty sure if the victim was related to you, your "basis in reality" would change somewhat.


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    #390
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    Adrift wrote: »
    in my opinion they're getting off lightly. .

    In mine too.

    In particular the guy who got a very light 6 years (+3 suspended) in order to
    "give him hope".

    I "hope" he does the six but I know he won't.


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    #391
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    jonomartin wrote: »
    well the chain gang maybe excessive! but make them work for cost in an area Ireland may not be able to compete fiscally with the rest of europe and push in the "free" labour.
    I know its not free but you get my point

    we lose millions a year looking after these people, who in the most part contribute nothing to society in normal life.

    also the point was made during the london riots of cutting welfare payments for ppl who cause problems to others.

    I agree with this social welfare is a service alot of ppl genuinely need, i'm in college myself on back to education allowance, but if u make no effort to better you're self then that should be taken into account.
    Idle hands do the devils work

    Totally agree with this.

    What makes my blood boil, is that these vermin attack a man on his way to do an honest days work.
    A concept that is, no doubt, totally alien to them, leeching scum that they are.

    I'd cut all their ballsacks off with a carving knife in the blink of an eye, safe in the knowledge, i'd be doing a service to society, by preventing them from breeding, and bringing another load of useless degenerate feral fucks into the world.


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