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old hippy

my friend wrote: »

it is truly time for a cull of the lumpenproletariat

I'd rather take out the sneering classes, instead

wexie

old hippy wrote: »

They are certainly not find upstanding citizens; I wouldn't dare suggest otherwise. However, I am curious as to the root causes for such heinous behaviour. I find myself at odds with the certain mindset here who hold them responsible for their own miserable condition without trying to understand the reasons leading up to such an horrific abandoment of humanity.

There's a barely concealed contempt (on some of the forums on boards) that seem to castigate the less fortunate sections of society.

While I partly agree with you that there has to be an underlying reason as to why these guys turned out quite the way they did, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they knew what they were doing was wrong at many different levels. No amount of bad parenting, poor circumstances, environmental factors etc. etc. can change that fact.

IF, it turns out that they genuinely did not know this was a bad, reprehensible and vile thing to do then we're having the wrong discussion.

I think if that was the case we need to be looking at Dundrum mental hospital for life. (not a bad idea if I say so myself)

Dyr

old hippy wrote: »

Ach, not much point - you're the type of person who uses the word "scumbags" to advance your argument.

I'm from ballymun horse, I'm allowed to use the term "scumbag"

checkyabadself

These vile cretins make my skin crawl.

Their actions are dictated by the risk reward calculator we all use to determine what we are about to do. The thing is, these people don't presume, like us sane people that crime equals punishment, they've realised that you can commit 55 crimes, serious crimes, possession of weapons, violent assault and threatening to kill people including his own mother and be allowed to walk out the front door or a court.

Whilst they are reprehensible neanderthal scum, the fault and solution seems to be in our hands.

BUILD MORE PRISONS. FILL THE PRISONS. Suspended sentences are a scourge on our society.

suicide_circus

checkyabadself wrote: »

These vile cretins make my skin crawl.

Ah you cant be calling them vile cretins, its all society's fault dont you know? They need more facilities and dole money!

ItsNoAlias

old hippy wrote: »

You ghettoise people, marginalise them, demonise them, treat them like scum and what do you expect?

Scumbags, indeed.

We dont expect them to kill another human being. Unforgivable. There are plenty of people in the same situation and they dont go out murdering people "for the buzz"

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

Apart from the fact that rehabilitation is a misnomer as its based on the assumption that these f**ks were decent citizens at some stage, Answer me this o hippies: Why would these two individuals WANT to be rehabilitated?

The opportunity must be there for all. If you were just to look at this kind of thing and go with the emotional reaction, you'd just shoot the fuckers and be done with it.

CaSCaDe711

Ireland needs to cop the f*ck on and get real, stop wasting time and money and prison spaces on the likes of these filthy skanks, they'll never contribute anything positive to society.

Gene pool, remove from, end of :cool:

M cebee

checkyabadself wrote: »

These vile cretins make my skin crawl.

Their actions are dictated by the risk reward calculator we all use to determine what we are about to do. The thing is, these people don't presume, like us sane people that crime equals punishment, they've realised that you can commit 55 crimes, serious crimes, possession of weapons, violent assault and threatening to kill people including his own mother and be allowed to walk out the front door or a court.

Whilst they are reprehensible neanderthal scum, the fault and solution seems to be in our hands.

BUILD MORE PRISONS. FILL THE PRISONS. Suspended sentences are a scourge on our society.

yes concrete dungeons and 'keep' them in it permanently

were too damn soft on crime

all these liberal loonies think they can rehabilitate scumbags ,while the decent people actually living beside them suffer

mickydoomsux

M cebee wrote: »

all these liberal loonies think they can rehabilitate scumbags ,while the decent people actually living beside them suffer

But rehabilitation obviously works.

It's not like one of these guys had 55 priors, including some for violent crimes and was on temporary release at the time..... oh, right.

Think there was another case a couple of months ago about some other scum on temporary release killing someone.

Nodin

mickydoomsux wrote: »

But rehabilitation obviously works.

..............

Theres no mandatory or extensive program of rehabilitation in Irish prisons.

Earlier you stated

I'm blaming an overly generous welfare state that pays a certain section of the population a living wage just to be a scumbag.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77794013&postcount=97

You might explain then, why the period before the welfare state sees a higher crime rate, where such exists.

M cebee

what are the chances of ever getting repeat offender scumbags off the street permanently here?

i don't pretend to understand the system but there appears to be a serious problem with repeat offenders graduating to crimes such as murder

fair enough if scumbags are rehabilitated and no longer pose a threat,but that isn't happening

why are they sent back out to cause mayhem???

mickydoomsux

Nodin wrote: »

You might explain then, why the period before the welfare state sees a higher crime rate, where such exists.

What types of crime?

Also crime detection and prevention methods have improved exponentially, it's just the sentences that have become laughable.

M cebee

mickydoomsux wrote: »

What types of crime?

Also crime detection and prevention methods have improved exponentially, it's just the sentences that have become laughable.

yes like if they're banged up in prison permanently they won't commit any more crime

life without parole for certain categories of repeat offences would put a stop to them

the liberal lefties far removed from these scumbags would kick up a stink

Nodin

mickydoomsux wrote: »

What types of crime?.

Each every and all, afaik. Certainly interpersonal violence has been declining from the middle ages.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Also crime detection and prevention methods have improved exponentially, it's just the sentences that have become laughable.

....but during the period of harsh sentencing - including death, torture and exile - there was a higher crime rate. South Africa has no welfare state as such and has a massive murder rate. The US has less of a welfare state than normally associated with a 1st world country and has a murder rate roughly three times that of here. While obviously there are more factors at play, it certainly is a strong one.

old hippy

M cebee wrote: »

yes concrete dungeons and 'keep' them in it permanently

were too damn soft on crime

all these liberal loonies think they can rehabilitate scumbags ,while the decent people actually living beside them suffer

I suppose you're "decent people", right? Jesus wept

Dyr

Nodin wrote: »

The opportunity must be there for all. If you were just to look at this kind of thing and go with the emotional reaction, you'd just shoot the fuckers and be done with it.

And "rehabiliate them all" is not an emotional reaction? . I'd like them to be locked up for mucho long time once they're been proven guilty. Although if they were taken out and shot instead, I'd wouldn't go running for my placard. Nothing emotional about it. I think either punishment is a valid consequence for such a crime.

Anyways, Last I checked the rehabilitation of convicts with the various ASPD conditions (like people who kick someone to death just for ****s n giggles) was almost purely notional because it just does'nt work. So why would we plough money into a process just to reassure some middle class beards that their views on criminal behaviour are'nt horse sh*t?

"Links" response in three I reckon :pac:

billybudd

old hippy wrote: »

It's to do with your environment and circumstances, actually.

The problem is that in most of these cases the parents have failed the child who grows up thinking scumbag behaviour is ok, if my son did this i would completely disown him and i would go to court and sit on the families side of the victim and i would demand he got the most harshest sentence available and i would offer to pay compensation to the victims family from my own pocket for the rest of my life as in some way this would be as much my fault as my childs.

I am sick of hearing these parasite parents protecting they're children in court and in the papers when the heat is on.

Where were they when the child was growing up and looking for proper guidence? i will tell you wherethey where, in most cases in a state of drunkness or hign of they're faces on drugs.

Sadly in this case and many more it is a case of scum rearing scum.

I understand a child looks to a parent for guidence etc and in a way i feel very badly for saying what i have said but sadly its true.

I am also sick of seeing young children as young as two years old been allowed to do what they want and stay out past 10pm and later because they're scum bag parents just in reality dont give a ****e and society to a point just does not give a ****e.

And these scum in a lot of cases depend on child allowances and one parent welfare without having much care for the welfare of they're own child.

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

And "rehabiliate them all" is not an emotional reaction? .

Nope. Certainly not mine.

Bambi wrote: »

Anyways, Last I checked the rehabilitation of convicts with the various ASPD conditions (like people who kick someone to death just for ****s n giggles) was almost purely notional because it just does'nt work.
.

...the idea is that with early intervention most would never develop into such individuals in the first place.

Bambi wrote: »

So why would we plough money into a process just to reassure some middle class beards that their views on criminal behaviour are'nt horse sh*t?.

Firstly, there are countries with far lower crime rates than here that show different approaches do work. Secondly we know the "lock them and throw away the key" approach doesn't.

I'm a "middle class" beard now? This is very interesting. How, O Great One, did you decipher this 'fact'?

Dyr

Nodin wrote: »

Nope. Certainly not mine.



...the idea is that with early intervention most would never develop into such individuals in the first place.

Firstly, there are countries with far lower crime rates than here that show different approaches do work. Secondly we know the "lock them and throw away the key" approach doesn't.

I'm a "middle class" beard now? This is very interesting. How, O Great One, did you decipher this 'fact'?

Who said you're a middle class beard? I'm just implying that people who trot out glib assurances about the powers of rehabilitation are probably middle class beards. That's completely different

Firstly, there are countries with far lower crime rates than here that show different approaches do work. Secondly we know the "lock them and throw away the key" approach doesn't.

Yeah, saudi arabia for one

Nodin

Bambi wrote: »

Who said you're a middle class beard? I'm just implying that people who trot out glib assurances about the powers of rehabilitation are probably middle class beards. That's completely different

Seeing as theres only about 3 people on the thread who've suggested same and I'm one of them - > In my hairy bollocks it is.

Vizzy

Nodin wrote: »

....but during the period of harsh sentencing - including death, torture and exile - there was a higher crime rate. South Africa has no welfare state as such and has a massive murder rate. The US has less of a welfare state than normally associated with a 1st world country and has a murder rate roughly three times that of here. While obviously there are more factors at play, it certainly is a strong one.

So is the the solution much more lenient sentencing and an exceptionally good welfare system ?

Dyr

Nodin wrote: »

Seeing as theres only about 3 people on the thread who've suggested same and I'm one of them - > In my hairy bollocks it is.

Why are you limiting the issue to this thread? if the problem was just the people in this thread, we'd be laughing.

Nodin

Vizzy wrote: »

So is the the solution much more lenient sentencing and an exceptionally good welfare system ?

And why would that be?

Continuity Wolfe Tone

Saw on TV3 last night that one had a conviction for threatening to kill his mother.

Would anyone shed a tear if scum like that got a bullet behind the ear? Not me.

It's all too common this fighting "for a buzz", I just don't get it. I'm well capable of looking after myself and have been in a few fights over the years but I've always been left shaken, almost sick afterwards (even if I won!). How anyone can enjoy fighting is beyond me. How going up to a bloke, asking for a fag and then "hitting him a few slaps" (that was their "plan", which got out of hand) is in any way fun is beyond me. But it happens in every town across the country most weeks.

(street fighting, not boxing or whatever I get how someone could enjoy a sport)

dougieruggie

We are responsible for these scum as well.

If people weren't such cowards and stood up to them on a regular basis then we wouldn't have such ****.

Ireland (and Britain) are probably the only places in the world where criminals go around randomly attacking people on a regular basis for a 'buzz'

Nodin

dougieruggie wrote: »

We are responsible for these scum as well.

If people weren't such cowards and stood up to them on a regular basis then we wouldn't have such ****.

Ireland (and Britain) are probably the only places in the world where criminals go around randomly attacking people on a regular basis for a 'buzz'

God love your innocence.

Continuity Wolfe Tone

dougieruggie wrote: »

We are responsible for these scum as well.

If people weren't such cowards and stood up to them on a regular basis then we wouldn't have such ****.

Ireland (and Britain) are probably the only places in the world where criminals go around randomly attacking people on a regular basis for a 'buzz'

Its easy to say that, but when confronted by these scum its best practice to just get away, they could have a knife or anything.

Vizzy

Nodin wrote: »

And why would that be?

I'm after reading your post( the one I quoted) again and this seems to be more or less what you are advocating,no ?
during the period of harsh sentencing - including death, torture and exile - there was a higher crime rate.(more lenient sentences ?)

South Africa has no welfare state as such and has a massive murder rate. The US has less of a welfare state than normally associated with a 1st world country and has a murder rate roughly three times that of here. While obviously there are more factors at play, it certainly is a strong one.(better welfare should be provided).

If I am reading this wrong can you advise,thanks

nlgbbbblth

old hippy wrote: »

It's to do with your environment and circumstances, actually.

Does that apply when the perpetrators come from privileged backgrounds? - like the guys mentioned below.

lividduck wrote: »

Funny how the Welfare State wasn't mentioned when the nice lads from the private school visciously kicked a lad to death outside annabelles nightclub a few years ago!