UFC 143: Diaz V Condit Official Thread Discussion

Utopia Parkway

p to the e wrote: »

I honestly think the Koscheck - Pierce fight was a closer fight than this one with many people concluding that Pierce won but where was his rematch?

Pierce v Koscheck was far more worthy of a rematch but Pierce isn't going to get one because well nobody really cares about Mike Pierce if we're being honest.

Bisping v Sonnen also more worthy of a rematch but Bisping won't get one because the UFC want the Silva v Sonnen fight.

Personally would have gone next with Diaz v Koscheck which would have done well as a fight as the build-up would have been great with the two of them mouthing at each other. If Diaz won he would have been back in the title picture pretty much straight away. If Condit had to take a fight before GSP he could have fought the winner of Sanchez v Ellenberger.

MrStuffins

Also

If this doesn't happen I can see BJ coming out of retirement to rematch Diaz!

horsemeat

I think it's the fairest thing.

It's like machida shogun 1.

If diaz had been ko'd or submitted I'd be sour but I wouldn't be calling for a rematch, but it was an extremely close decision one in which fans are split right down the middle as to who won.

I think a rematch is fair financially and at a sporting level. Many people feel Diaz was robbed, what's the problem with doing it again. If carlos is genuinely the better fighter he'll have no problem taking the fight.

Financially a lot of money on offer from people tuning in to see the fight again, another primetime show with even more animosity tension between all three men (remember there was no bad mouthing from diaz last time, expect that to change in the next primetime)

if diaz wins, the ufc gets diaz gsp, if condit wins again well at least the ufc will have built more of a profile up around him and might be able to sell the gsp fight.

btw, i read another article that says gsp might be willing to give up the title, skip condit and go straight for nick on his return.

It's wednesday now and this issue just will not go away, dana has obviously realised this also.

Roar

horsemeat wrote: »

btw, i read another article that says gsp might be willing to give up the title, skip condit and go straight for nick on his return.

link??

cowzerp

horsemeat wrote: »

It's like machida shogun 1.

No it's not, Shogun was robbed blind in that fight so deserved the rematch.

MrStuffins

horsemeat wrote: »

It's like machida shogun 1.

No it's not. Not at all!

I'm seriously begining to think Horsemeat is actually Nate Diaz!

p to the e

MrStuffins wrote: »

No it's not. Not at all!

I'm seriously begining to think Horsemeat is actually Nate Diaz!

His spelling and grammar is too good to be Nate.

I wonder if Nick is still retired.

I think Diaz fighting Sanchez Ellenberger winner would be great especially since Sanchez is so intense and Ellenberger is a bit of a brawler. My prediction is also Fitch v. Pierce and Nelson versus loser of Kongo-Hunt.

MrStuffins

p to the e wrote: »

I think Diaz fighting Sanchez Ellenberger winner would be great

Great shout!

horsemeat

you'd swear I was the only person in the world who thought diaz won the way the likes of stuffings and paul are going on.

anyway dana tweeted that carlos accepted rematch and is flying in on friday to finalise the deal.

the link for gsp skipping condit was on bjpenn.com

MrStuffins

horsemeat wrote: »

you'd swear I was the only person in the world who thought diaz won the way the likes of stuffings and paul are going on.

anyway dana tweeted that carlos accepted rematch and is flying in on friday to finalise the deal.

the link for gsp skipping condit was on bjpenn.com

It's not that, it's the silly things you've said in the thread. Like calling Carlos "Natural Born Runner". Saying "Greg Jackson has ruined MMA".

Saying anyone who disagrees with you is a "Diaz Brother Hater".

Saying leg kicked effectively don't count.

Saying scoring points isn't a legitimate way of winning fights.

Your arguments are ridiculous and pretty much show a complete and utter ignorance towards the sport. They come across childish and reactionary and they do you no favours. I'm sorry but that's my opinion.

if you honestly saw that fight and think what Carlos Condit was doing was running away, rather than executing a perfectly thought through game-plan then you don't know what you're watching.

Other people have their opinions on why they thought Nick won of course. But a lot of them are just like yours. I haven't seen anyone on this thread so far put forward well reasoned argument for Diaz winning that fight!

Xlami

Realistically I think the only reason this fight is being made is because even with their marketing power I think the UFC would struggle to sell a PPV headlined by Conduit Vs Ellenberger for an intirm title.

El Guapo!

I think the better option would be to have Diaz face the loser of Sanchez v Ellenberger, and have the winner face Condit.
Then that would lead up to GSP being fit again and whoever won the interim title would fight GSP to unify the belts.
Then the winner of Diaz v ? would be number 1 contender to fight whoever unifies the belts.
(If that makes sense! )

El Guapo!

Dean09 wrote: »

He could've refused the rematch if he wanted to.

cowzerp wrote: »

You think so! I don't.

I think he could've refused it but it probably would've made his job harder in the future. Dana probably pushed and pushed and promised him another shot at the title down the line should he lose. That and he probably threw bucket loads of cash at him for it.

Utopia Parkway

horsemeat wrote: »

you'd swear I was the only person in the world who thought diaz won the way the likes of stuffings and paul are going on.

It was a relatively close fight but not a particularly controversial decision IMO. Condit outstruck Diaz in 4 of the 5 rounds. The only two rounds that were clearly won by either fighter were rounds 3 and 4 in favour of Condit. The other 3 rounds were all close. Some give Diaz round 5 because he had a takedown and had Condit's back for the last minute of the fight but Condit outstruck him on the feet for the first 3:30 of that final round.

You don't see that stick and move style used all that often in MMA compared to say boxing where it's more common. Not much use in moving forward if you are continually getting hit more than you are able hit back. I think this is partially why many people just tend to think the fighter moving forward must be winning. Even if he is constantly eating shots trying to get into range. In this case Diaz spent the whole fight zombie walking forward trying to pin Condit against the cage. As soon as Condit felt the cage near his back he just slipped out the side so he could fight at range from the centre of the octagon.

MrStuffins

Dean09 wrote: »

I think the better option would be to have Diaz face the loser of Sanchez v Ellenberger, and have the winner face Condit.
Then that would lead up to GSP being fit again and whoever won the interim title would fight GSP to unify the belts.
Then the winner of Diaz v ? would be number 1 contender to fight whoever unifies the belts.
(If that makes sense! )

Nice shout!

I'd love for Diego to get another shot at a belt. He's always all action and a guy everybody loves to see fight (Oh wait....... isn't he a Jackson fighter? :P ). Yes, he's 2-2 in his last 4, but he wins this weekend and he's won 3 in a row against Thiago, Kampmann and Ellenberger.

Should he win decisively i'd love to see him go against Condit!

El Guapo!

MrStuffins wrote: »

Nice shout!

I'd love for Diego to get another shot at a belt. He's always all action and a guy everybody loves to see fight (Oh wait....... isn't he a Jackson fighter? :P ). Yes, he's 2-2 in his last 4, but he wins this weekend and he's won 3 in a row against Thiago, Kampmann and Ellenberger.

Should he win decisively i'd love to see him go against Condit!

Exactly. And yeah I know he's batshít crazy but love him or hate him he always puts on a good show and I love watching him fight.

horsemeat

MrStuffins wrote: »

It's not that, it's the silly things you've said in the thread. Like calling Carlos "Natural Born Runner". Saying "Greg Jackson has ruined MMA".

Saying anyone who disagrees with you is a "Diaz Brother Hater".

Saying leg kicked effectively don't count.

Saying scoring points isn't a legitimate way of winning fights.

Your arguments are ridiculous and pretty much show a complete and utter ignorance towards the sport. They come across childish and reactionary and they do you no favours. I'm sorry but that's my opinion.

if you honestly saw that fight and think what Carlos Condit was doing was running away, rather than executing a perfectly thought through game-plan then you don't know what you're watching.

Other people have their opinions on why they thought Nick won of course. But a lot of them are just like yours. I haven't seen anyone on this thread so far put forward well reasoned argument for Diaz winning that fight!

Attack the post not the poster.

Greg Jackson has ruined MMA, again an opinion held by many.

Diaz was robbed, again a legitimate opinion held by many. Ariel Helwani thinks so, is he an idiot. Joe Rogan concedes he can see the argument for the diaz win. It appears to be only you who has again taken issue with me on this forum because of the opinions I hold.

The idea that carlos ran away from diaz, and executed a good game plan are not mutually exclusive. I concede he implemented a strategy that manipulated the vague judging system and that he knew could hand him a points victory. in this case it did.

It's these posters who study their FightMetric and think that tells them the true story of the fight who are really spoiling this forum. Everyone else's opinion is a pile of junk in the eyes of the elite few :rolleyes: sherdog might be a better place for you to post with your dogmatic unshakable beliefs.

horsemeat

Leo Dowling wrote: »

Thank you for the welcome but I've been here for five or so years on various accounts and I know the old guys and the new guys. The fun of the forum is discussing the fights, not buddybuddying. So discuss the fights rather than lamenting the absence of people you're familiar with.

cheers to you.

Hi Leo. Just spotted this now. MultiCounting is against the rules. I will ask the mods to investigate this further. Cheers.

MrStuffins

horsemeat wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster.

I attacked the things you said in your posts.

Greg Jackson has ruined MMA, again an opinion held by many.

Yup. Many gimps IMO who have absolutely no idea what they're on about.

Diaz was robbed, again a legitimate opinion held by many. Ariel Helwani thinks so, is he an idiot. Joe Rogan concedes he can see the argument for the diaz win. It appears to be only you who has again taken issue with me on this forum because of the opinions I hold.

it seems your entire argument is "Well, other people think Diaz won, so i'm right". There are many many people who think Condit won too. But so what? if you think Diaz won, back yourself up. Tell us why and give us proper reasons. Your comments so far have done nothing for you.

The idea that carlos ran away from diaz, and executed a good game plan are not mutually exclusive. I concede he implemented a strategy that manipulated the vague judging system and that he knew could hand him a points victory. in this case it did.

Lol! Nope, what he did was he studied Diaz, knew what Diaz was gonna do was walk him down and try corner him like he does with all of his opponents and devised a strategy to best defeat Diaz. And it worked.

It's these posters who study their FightMetric and think that tells them the true story of the fight who are really spoiling this forum. Everyone else's opinion is a pile of junk in the eyes of the elite few :rolleyes: sherdog might be a better place for you to post with your dogmatic unshakable beliefs.

Lol!!!

Dogmatic? You see, here is your problem. Someone disagrees with you and you get all pissy and childish. Again, it does you no favours. Unshakeable beliefs lol.

If you read the thread, you would see that I was pulling for Diaz. But Condit won the fight. Not only did I explain why I thought Condit won the fight, I even went back through the fight and explained why I thought each fighter won each round.

It's called having an opinion and being able to back it up my friend. But yeah, "Natural Born Runner"........ good lad :rolleyes:

El Guapo!

horsemeat wrote: »

Greg Jackson has ruined MMA, again an opinion held by many. .

I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous statement.

horsemeat wrote: »

Diaz was robbed, again a legitimate opinion held by many. Ariel Helwani thinks so, is he an idiot. Joe Rogan concedes he can see the argument for the diaz win. It appears to be only you who has again taken issue with me on this forum because of the opinions I hold.

Robbed is totally the wrong word to use because he was in no way robbed. I can see the argument for saying it was a close fight but saying he was robbed is just not true and you seem to be biased as a big Nick Diaz fan.

horsemeat wrote: »

The idea that carlos ran away from diaz, and executed a good game plan are not mutually exclusive. I concede he implemented a strategy that manipulated the vague judging system and that he knew could hand him a points victory. in this case it did.

He had a solid gameplan that he stuck to and executed it perfectly and that showed in the result. He never ran away. He got shots off and got out of the way before he took damage.

horsemeat wrote: »

Everyone else's opinion is a pile of junk in the eyes of the elite few :rolleyes: sherdog might be a better place for you to post with your dogmatic unshakable beliefs.

Take your own advice. Attack the post, not the poster.

Leo Dowling

horsemeat wrote: »

Hi Leo. Just spotted this now. MultiCounting is against the rules. I will ask the mods to investigate this further. Cheers.

Ask the mods why you don't have a willy while you're at it.

darced

This post has been deleted.

MrStuffins

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well it's not a case of Condit doing what he did last time. It's a case of Diaz putting together a plan B and being smart enough to know that if Condit has Diaz sussed for a couple of rounds, Diaz should change it up.

I've no doubt that had Diaz decided to get the fight to the ground in the latter rounds he would've finished the fight or even controlled it and put it in no doubt that he should've won a decision!

El Guapo!

MrStuffins wrote: »

I've no doubt that had Diaz decided to get the fight to the ground in the latter rounds he would've finished the fight or even controlled it and put it in no doubt that he should've won a decision!

I agree. Diaz changed his tactics way too late. He continued to stand with Condit even though he was going nowhere with it. His corner did him no favours by telling him he was winning it on the feet.
I think the rematch will see a totally different Diaz and he'll look to take it to the ground early enough and try submit Condit.

SDTimeout

Rumors the re-match are off. An "issue" from the Diaz camp.

Have a theory but it's against the charter. It's not steroids if you get me.

follow this dude on Twitter, https://twitter.com/FrontRowBrian

darced

This post has been deleted.

El Guapo!

SDTimeout wrote: »

Rumors the re-match are off. An "issue" from the Diaz camp.

Have a theory but it's against the charter. It's not steroids if you get me.

follow this dude on Twitter, https://twitter.com/FrontRowBrian

Care to pm me your theory?

horsemeat

There's two things, I personally think it's the latter.

A) Nick could have failed a post fight banned substance test which may explain a sub par performance.

Diaz has been offered less terms, hence the latest bjpenn.com post and also cesars tweet to dana thiry mins ago that Nick would rematch in a heartbeat for no extra money.

Second one is much more likely from my reading between the lines

horsemeat

The silence is uneasy.

This fight better happen.

ridiculous at this stage, what the hell could be going on

mailburner

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I've only looked at this page now since sunday but i think we will see the same
fight all over again
i had backed condit on points and there was no doubt in my mind that
condit won whatsoever
im amazed they're fighting again tbh

i thought condit would stand with diaz beforehand myself but he got
his tactics spot on
diaz just cant be knocked out and cant be stopped by anyone
in the division
one thing for sure though, nobody will ever stand toe to toe with diaz
and come out with a win...that man is just different class on his feet