UFC 143: Diaz V Condit Official Thread Discussion

stuchyg

Good Card overall, Big Country can take some punishment. The only decision i would argue with is Pierce losing, he defo won that fight. While i wanted Diaz to win you could understand the decision going to Condit

Mellor

sheehy83 wrote: »

Wait til he fights a proper striker, he will get KTFO with that low guard. Also, sorry for going off topic but I heard Hendo turned down a fight with Lil Nog to wait for a shot at Jones.

I think he has a better idea of striking technique than you, or me, or anyone on the forums. He's one of the top strikers in the division.

empacher wrote: »

1,3,4 to Carlos 2 as a draw and 5 to diaz (even though I feel Carlos won the round. The tendencies of judging to score it on the last minute of action especially if there's a takedown.) 1 was razor thin and 2 could have gone to Diaz

I don't understand that, how can you give rd 5 to Diaz if you feel Carlso won the round?

Peopel saying Conduit ran is nonsense, he avoided him for 5 rounds and landed far more strikes. As a whole he won.
In terms of scoring, round by round, Conduit gets 1,3 and 4 for me. Round 2 and 5 for Diaz.
48-47 and its not a close one. 5 is the closest round, conduit gets that before Diaz takes the first

darced

This post has been deleted.

scudzilla

p to the e wrote: »

seriously did anyone watch the Stephen Thompson KO? Here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8IsiKLm6mU

Bit out of order there for him to carry on punching, they guy was clearly knocked the fcuk out. I know some people say carry on until the ref stops it but that was just taking the piss

Roar

scudzilla wrote: »

Bit out of order there for him to carry on punching, they guy was clearly knocked the fcuk out. I know some people say carry on until the ref stops it but that was just taking the piss

he landed with one half assed punch before the referee moved in. Just complete instinct to keep going until he's stopped. I wouldn't be reading too much into it.

empacher

Mellor wrote: »

I don't understand that, how can you give rd 5 to Diaz if you feel Carlso won the round?

What I mean is i gave Diaz the round based on that judges tend to give it to a a guy with a take down.
But I feel Condit won it because, for 4mins he was winning on the feet. He defended the rear naked, and reversed the armbar to end up on top. which gave diaz only about 50secs of being in control of the fight.

Logical Fallacy

scudzilla wrote: »

Bit out of order there for him to carry on punching, they guy was clearly knocked the fcuk out. I know some people say carry on until the ref stops it but that was just taking the piss

Guys can wake up the second they hit the ground. It's not like he went Donkey Kong on him or anything, one punch sort of landed.

horsemeat

seadnamac wrote: »

I don't know why some people bother to watch this sport. That was a fantastic performance from Carlos Condit and he clearly won the fight. He landed more, he caused more damage and he avoided the most dangerous aspects of Diaz's offence. He showed Nick Diaz up for the limited fighter he is and all some people can do is moan about how he didn't just stand there to be hit. Running? Jesus Christ...

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

Andersonisgod

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

I want to watch Condit vs GSP.

Also why would Condit want to stand there and let Diaz offload on him, that would be utterly stupid. Condit was clearly the better technical striker with a greater variety of strikes in his arsenal. Also if Diaz were to fight GSP, do you really think GSP would just stand there aswell? Of course not, Diaz has nothing to complain about, his gameplan was one dimensional, once Condit got out of the corners Diaz backed him into all Diaz had were some childish taunts, Diaz only has himself to blame for the loss.

Mellor

horsemeat wrote: »

]

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

Leg kicks do no damage!!
Are you Cecil Peeples?


Saying Diaz left is all in the cage is nonsense. He threw basically no strikes in round 4. When the first 3 rounds were so clsoe, giving the other guy the forth for free is not the actinos od somebody leaving it all in the cage.

seadnamac

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

If you believe all that, then MMA isn't for you.

Logical Fallacy

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

And the final float in the Bollix Day Parade....

empacher

I love the banter on this thread, between educated fans and the seeking action fans.

jayteecork

Thought Diaz was robbed. He controlled the fight.

Professey Chin

jayteecork wrote: »

Thought Diaz was robbed. He controlled the fight.

People keep saying this?!
Walking forward isnt controlling the fight. Its just walking forward and he was able to do fcuk all with it. Condit showed a lot more control by not allowing himself to just be backed up against the cage. Everytime he was in that position he used strikes to get a distance and span out.
Diaz gameplan was same as always. Walk forward, talk and tire him out so he can unleash his usual barrages. The only problem was Condit didnt get put off by the talking and didnt tire. He landed constant strikes and avoided damage. And Diaz didnt have an answer for that.

Ush1

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

People keep saying this?!
Walking forward isnt controlling the fight. Its just walking forward and he was able to do fcuk all with it. Condit showed a lot more control by not allowing himself to just be backed up against the cage. Everytime he was in that position he used strikes to get a distance and span out.
Diaz gameplan was same as always. Walk forward, talk and tire him out so he can unleash his usual barrages. The only problem was Condit didnt get put off by the talking and didnt tire. He landed constant strikes and avoided damage. And Diaz didnt have an answer for that.

Diaz controlled it in the same way Nelson controlled Werdum.:)

The Bored One

I was very happy with that event overall.

Personally I though Diaz vs Condit was a thing of beauty. Condit perfectly neutralized Diaz's game, and put on a great display of counter-striking.
Constantly changing angles, moving in and out of range, he was practically leading Diaz around by the nose.
It showed up a number of gaps in Diaz's game, the biggest one to me being his lack of takedown ability. If he could shoot a good takedown then that fight could have gone rather differently. He could have put the fight in a range where he had greater control of the action, as he does have a dangerous ground game. Instead he left trying this till near the very end of the fight and failed to pull of the sub.
It also showed that he needs to mix up his striking more effectively. Diaz mainly throws medium power shots that do damage by their volume. Condit never stayed in range long enough for the volume to be an issue. Which left Diaz without any major weapons to use. His head kicks were very easily (and very obviously) blocked by Condit which would have a stong effect on how they were percieved by the judges.
He also didn't up the power of his punches to try and slow or stun Condit when he did catch him. Just continued with the medium level punches that Condit disengaged from before the volume could affect him.

I also have alot of respect for Condit keeping focused during the fight. More than one person has been sucked into playing the back and forth game with the Diaz brothers by their taunting, Condit just stuck to the plan and got the job done. He also did ramp up how aggressively he was doing it the longer the fight went on.
Actually on the subject of the taunting, several times when Diaz dropped his guard and did his come hit me gestures, Condit did hit him with a few strikes as he moved in and out.
When you're being judged on your technical ability by a panel of judges, deliberately not blocking strikes that are landing on your face probably doesn't look so good.

Professey Chin

Actually I just remembered Condits cross(or jab, must rewatch), left leg kick, right head kick combo was a thing of beauty
/fap

The Bored One

Oh and new the intro looked dodgy to me. Just the cgi looked rather cheesy.

cowzerp

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following; this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

ridiculous.

At a professional level it's a business and the way to make money is to win regular and fight for titles or title defenses.

Points are a legitimate way to win any fight in combat sports, Diaz throwing tippy tappy punches with zero chance of a ko is hardly trying to finish the fight either.

on a side note, cursing on here is not on and i don't care if you change or remove letters to beat the system-next time it's done the ban hammer will be coming out.

seadnamac wrote: »

If you believe all that, then MMA isn't for you.

Agreed.

Shazbot

horsemeat wrote: »

I see the Diaz haters are out in force now with junk like the above posted.

So anyone who agrees with the decision is a Diaz hater? I like Diaz and wanted him to win, i even put a bit of money on it but he didn't win that fight.

Not one person who watches MMA thought that main event could even possibly be boring, but carlos and greg proved everybody wrong.

I expected it to be similar to the Diaz v Daley fight but Condit played it perfectly to avoid Diaz's style.

MMA has become a joke with this point scoring bollox.

That's such bull. A few fighters choose to fight conservatively and beat their opponents with skills that aren't pleasing to most and suddenly the entire sport of MMA is a joke? Your statement is a joke.

Fight metric stats mean f all, condit outstruck diaz by about 50 shots, but almost 70 of carlos shots were point scoring leg kicks that did absolutely no damage to diaz.

While I agree that Fight metric isn't perfect, it does give a good analysis off fighter activity. In this case, Condit outworked Diaz with more effective shots. You don't know they did no damage to Diaz. Just because he wasn't limping like Faber doesn't mean they where not effective. Diaz is as tough as nails but he could be feeling those this morning.

diaz himself only threw 16 leg kicks.

So?

one man went out there to leave it all in the cage, the other went out to leave the cage with the belt.

Yeah sure. Diaz went in there to leave it all in the cage? As Mellor said, the actions of Diaz in the final 2 rounds does not indicate a man "leaving it in the cage".

it's an embarrassment for the ufc.

Sensationalist bullsh*t. Condit completely nullified the most effect aspect of Diaz's game with excellent movement and counter striking. He showed the holes in Diaz's game and exploited them beautifully. To say that's an embarrassment shows an incomplete appreciation for the skills of Condit.

who the fcuk wants to watch condit v gsp.

I do. I think it would be a great fight. GSP is the best fighter in the game. He cleaned out his division twice and can dominate a stand up fight and a ground fight. This will really put Condit to the test. Just because GSP hasn't finished fights in a while doesn't make it a boring prospect.

it's like greg jackson came up with a plan to beat diaz ''ok we don't want to get a point scoring win by holding him down on the ground like we normally do cause there's a good chance he'll submit you, so instead we'll run away from him all fight and keep hitting him with weak ass leg kicks.you'll have to win once they see you outstruck and outpointed him.''

Ah the Jacksons hate. All too easy to counter argue so I won't bother. What's wrong with a fighter working a perfect gameplan? Anyone stupid enough to go into a fight and not exploited a weakness in their opponent is absolutely stupid.

cop onto yourselves. condit should be ashamed of himself, anyone who thinks there was any honour in his victory needs to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and do a rain check on what sport it is they are actually following;

Ashamed of himself for outworking a dangerous fighter and not playing into his opponents game. Yeah I'm sure he's gutted with himself

this isn't tennis or gymnastics, this is the hurt business not the point scoring business.

Actually it's a fight business. There are numerous ways to win a fight and not all include a balls to the wall brawl.

ridiculous.

You summed up your own post nicely.

p to the e

It was amazing to hear people saying Diaz was robbed and I thought it was only key board warriors. Check out some of these tweets from some "professionals".
http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/2/5/2772168/ufc-143-twitter-nick-diaz-vs-carlos-condit-pros-score

Here's an article from mma-fighting that should put it straight:
http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/2/5/2773487/no-robbery-here-carlos-condit-earned-decision-win-over-nick-diaz#2962283

Feb 5, 2012 - Judging by Nick Diaz’s reaction to his unanimous decision loss to Carlos Condit at UFC 143, you’d have thought he’d just been robbed on live TV. You’d have thought he’d returned home to find that judge Cecil Peoples had made off with all his most prized possessions, from his road bike to his Tupac CDs. You definitely wouldn’t have thought that he’d merely lost a close decision in a close fight, though that’s exactly what happened.

"I don't need this [expletive]," Diaz told Joe Rogan after the decision was announced. "He ran from me this whole fight. I landed the harder shots. He kicked me in the leg with little baby kicks."

Of course, he said this while sporting a set of facial bruises and lacerations that told a very different story. You don’t get that kind of damage at a track meet. Obviously Condit must have been doing something besides running and baby-kicking. According to the FightMetric stats, that something was out-working Diaz with strikes in four of the five rounds, landing a total of 159 strikes to Diaz’s 117.

Granted, stats don’t always tell the full story with an MMA bout. Condit did spend a considerable amount of time avoiding Diaz, or at least ducking out of the way and getting the fight back to the center of the cage. If you’re of the opinion that no fighter should ever win a decision while backpedaling -- even if he’s landing more strikes in the process --- then sure, you could cry foul over the decision. Just know that you’re using your own made-up criteria to judge the fight, not the one that matters.

According to the unified rules of MMA, judges score bouts based on "effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense." Nowhere in there does it say you can’t back up or circle away. Nowhere does it say that you have to let a guy like Diaz walk you down and unload on you against the cage. Condit clearly didn’t want to get stuck with his back to the fence, where Diaz is most effective, so he continually brought the fight back to the center, where he was more effective.

In other words, Condit fought the smart fight. He also fought the slightly busier fight, at least according to the numbers. While it might have looked like Diaz was far more aggressive, if only because he walked forward in a straight line for most of the fight, Condit actually threw more strikes (329 to 258, according to Fight Metric) and landed more significant strikes (151 to 105). You can accuse him of running away if you want, but, like Diaz, you’d have to ignore the obvious evidence to the contrary, which plenty of fans are no doubt willing to do.

Maybe part of the problem here is expectations. Many people (Diaz included, perhaps) thought this was going to be a brawl. They expected to see two guys standing toe-to-toe, chopping away at each other until somebody fell. They didn’t get that fight, even though Diaz did his best to deliver it, and so they naturally blame the guy who decided to pursue a game plan rather than the guy who was unable to adjust to it.

It’s easy to see why Diaz wanted the kind of flat-footed, close-up boxing match that he was pressing for all night. He’s good at that style. He might be better at it than anyone in MMA -- certainly better than Condit. That’s why it only made sense for Condit to stay on the move, to force Diaz to reset and start his attack over. And while Diaz was doing that, Condit hit him. He ducked under hooks, stayed out of range of those long jabs, and picked his spots.

That’s not to say it wasn’t a close fight. Several of those rounds could have gone either way, and don’t believe for a second that Condit had no doubt about how the judges were going to score it. Standing there and waiting for Bruce Buffer to get through the preamble and just spit it out, Condit looked like one of those alleged fathers on the Maury Povich paternity test show. He might have been hoping for good news, but that was not the look of a man who knew for sure what was coming.

That’s how it goes with close fights. When neither man clearly dominates, you end up standing there at the end of the night, hoping for the best. Diaz can complain that Condit didn’t engage in the kind of fight he wanted, but he can’t say that the guy didn’t fight. Not with his face looking like that. Not if he wants anyone to take him seriously.

Zero-Cool

Lads, if the dicision upset ye, I bet it still didn't make you kick your telly to death like this guy did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVyJt94u_VU

gimmick

On first viewing, I thought Diaz edged it. There wont be a second viewing though, as I was thoroughly bored by the fight. No way am i giving up another 30 minutes for it.

I really enjoyed the Nelson V Werdum fight. Nelson must have the most solid chin I have ever seen. The amount of punishment he takes is incredible, yet he seemingly never gets knocked down.

If the main event was close and possibly controversial, Nelson Werdum was as clear cut as they come. Werdum is impressive. Nelson needs to lose the flab.

And LOL at Koscheck. Greatest troll in MMA.

dave1982

I don't know where this Condit ran all night bull is coming from!

Is Condit expected to allow nick corner him and throw 20 punch's in a matter of seconds, or move away and hit Diaz on the way out?


It was a very close fight but if Diaz had won, i question the judging then.

Condit executed his game plan.

I found it exciting fight, to see two guys try to implement they game plans

horsemeat

seadnamac wrote: »

If you believe all that, then MMA isn't for you.

sorry, didn't realise Greg Jackson had a boards.ie account.

:rolleyes:

Jimmy Bottlehead

The fighting over this decision shows two sets of fans for MMA:

1) Those who thought Condit clearly lost are fans who want to see brutal, hard-hitting stand-up fights, ala the early UFC's. They watch for the brutality alone.

2) The fans who feel that Condit at least fought a smart fight, or won clearly are the second group - these fans appreciate the intelligent side of fighting, even if it sometimes doesn't lead to the most exciting fights, and realise that MMA takes brains, not just brawn.

Of course there are exceptions, but going forward I feel the sport will continue to evolve with regards individual fighter approaches and gameplans. For example, Roy Nelson is as tough as they come, and can withstand & dole out unbelievable levels of abuse and punishment, but his skills and gameplan simply weren't up to scratch compared to Werdum, and it showed.

* Also, for the record, although I was expecting an all-out war from Condit / Diaz, I still was happy enough with the main event. It was an excellent match with regards two fighters who went in with two very different plans. People moaning it was a waste of time are exaggerating, IMO.

pauldoo

The Bored One wrote: »

Oh and new the intro looked dodgy to me. Just the cgi looked rather cheesy.

i thought they did a great job on it! im easily pleased.

Condit fought an awesome fight, wasnt the exciting fight i thought it would be, but condit did class and was very impressive. i hope hes working on his wrestling and takedown defence for gsp, he has till november to get it into shape, although he looked handy when kim got a hold of him.

Nelson took a beating, i wonder if he keeps dropping the weight could he make light heavy weight. The size difference between him and werdum was massive.

Some interesting fights for werdum, next up could be carwin, mir, cain???

kos v diaz would be intersting, plenty of smack talk. i wonder what happened at AKA

horsemeat

Pat Miletich
Royce Gracie
Anderson Silva
Chuck Lidell
Joe Lauzon
Miguel Torres
Tim Kennedy
TJ Dillashaw
Mark Munoz
Rounda Rousey
Jake Ellenberger
Dan Henderson
Marloes Coenen
Jens Pulver
Josh Neer
Cody McKenzie
Yves Edwards
Matt Lindland
Cung Lee
Dan Hardy
Aaron Simpson
Mayhem Miller! and the list goes on.

Kenny Florian, GSP and Tito Ortiz has it a draw.

I hope a rematch is sorted for the summer. Judging system has become a joke.

El Guapo!

horsemeat wrote: »

Pat Miletich
Royce Gracie
Anderson Silva
Chuck Lidell
Joe Lauzon
Miguel Torres
Tim Kennedy
TJ Dillashaw
Mark Munoz
Rounda Rousey
Jake Ellenberger
Dan Henderson
Marloes Coenen
Jens Pulver
Josh Neer
Cody McKenzie
Yves Edwards
Matt Lindland
Cung Lee
Dan Hardy
Aaron Simpson
Mayhem Miller! and the list goes on.

Kenny Florian, GSP and Tito Ortiz has it a draw.

I hope a rematch is sorted for the summer. Judging system has become a joke.

Tbh you could list a thousand other people, myself included, who gave the fight to Condit. Just because the people you listed are involved in the sport doesn't mean they're automatically right.
I gave the fight to Condit and thought he executed his gameplan perfectly. But I can also see how people may have scored it the other way, depending on what they were looking for when scoring the fight.
It was a close fight and imo the judges got it right this time round.