Shannon airport

lambayire

oops - wrong thread

Growler!!!

highlydebased wrote: »

The longest runway in Europe/World is just barstool talk really- someone mentions it's the longest in the country and the message gets warped and altered as it gets passed along to suddenly becoming the longest in the world

Knock is the longest runway. It's 18,000ft according to the Christy Moore song:D

roundymac

Growler!!! wrote: »

Knock is the longest runway. It's 18,000ft according to the Christy Moore song:D

I was once told that Knock had the longest runway in Europe and that the building of the airport was financed by the US so that it could be used by NATO bombers on their way to bomb Russia. The guy who told me really believed it to be fact, took a lot of persuading before he accecpted my view.



He's now one of the leading lights in the anti-water charges down here in Cork.:eek:

GCU Flexible Demeanour

highlydebased wrote: »

The longest runway in Europe/World is just barstool talk really- someone mentions it's the longest in the country and the message gets warped and altered as it gets passed along to suddenly becoming the longest in the world

Indeed, it should be pub talk, but the myth gets included in a variety of official and semi-official statements. A quick Google reveals these:

http://www.clarecourier.ie/article.asp?id=3359

Mayor of Clare County Council 10 July 2012

<...>It has the longest runway in Europe<...>

http://www.clarecoco.ie/planning/publications/shannon-town-and-environs-local-area-plan-2012-2018-volume-2-strategic-environmental-assessment-part-i-of-iii-environmental-report-17249.pdf

Shannon Town and Environs Local Area Plan 2012–2018

<...>the second longest runway in Europe<...>

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012121100017

Shannon Airport: Motion (Continued)
Tuesday, 11 December 2012

<...>Deputy Kieran O'Donnell: Shannon Airport has the longest runway in Europe<...>

http://www.shannonairport.ie/gns/about-us/latest-news/latest-news/14-06-10/History_making_again_at_Shannon_Airport_as_first_Irish_night-time_Runway-Run_takes_place.aspx

Shannon Airport 10 June 2014

<...>one of Europe’s longest runways<...>

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2012/0628/326934-shannon-airport-steering-group-urged-to-report/

28 June 2012

Aoife O’ Sullivan, Chairperson of the European Business Aviation Association said Shannon already had a cluster of business expertise tax incentives and attractions, such as one of the longest runways in the world

What can be said about that? It's a wonderful example of myth-making, down to the spurious sense of authority given by asserting its the "second longest", as if the authors had a clue what they were talking about. To say nothing of the easy leap to saying "in the world".

Brennans Row

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

What can be said about that?

That the small penis complex is not a myth? :rolleyes:

Why any Dubliner would be constantly bothered about the length of Shannon Airport's runway or the large-size of Antonov aircraft that land there (with or without train locomotives) is beyond me.

By the way, welcome back from your banishment.

squonk

Personally speaking while tech has improved, centralising more of Shannon's functions in Dublin strikes me as a backward move for the west of ireland. More and more work/services gravitate towards Dublin. I think while this is technically possible it shouldn't be allowed go ahead. It shoulnd't be mandatory that to work in ATC requires relocation to Dublin.

elastico

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Indeed, it should be pub talk, but the myth gets included in a variety of official and semi-official statements. A quick Google reveals these:What can be said about that? It's a wonderful example of myth-making, down to the spurious sense of authority given by asserting its the "second longest", as if the authors had a clue what they were talking about. To say nothing of the easy leap to saying "in the world".

Why does such a trival urban legend trouble you so much?

Cosmo Kramer

elastico wrote: »

Why does such a trival urban legend trouble you so much?

Probably because it is indicitave of the kind of 'facts' that are regularly spewed out to argue that Shannon is something more than the provincial Irish airport that it actually is and to seek preferential treatment over other provincial airports as a result.

Deleted User wrote: »

I see the IAA are looking at remote towers for Shannon and Cork to be controlled from Dublin

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/161711

So much for Shannon's independence then. It is looking more and more like the political stunt that it actually was with each passing day. I hope Shannon will be contributing their share of funding to such a project and its ongoing operation thereafter rather than just piggybacking on the good will of other airports and the taxpayer yet again.

Additionally, I hope that the Ballygirreen Atlantic control centre can now be centralized to Dublin also as there would appear to be no need for it to operate from near Shannon any longer either. Indeed, it may be more appropriate to just merge it with the main ATC centre at Prestwick at this point, the ongoing operations at Ballygirreen seem needless in light of modern technological advances.

highlydebased

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

So much for Shannon's independence then. It is looking more and more like the political stunt that it actually was with each passing day. I hope Shannon will be contributing their share of funding to such a project and its ongoing operation thereafter rather than just piggybacking on the good will of other airports and the taxpayer yet again.

Additionally, I hope that the Ballygirreen Atlantic control centre can now be centralized to Dublin also as there would appear to be no need for it to operate from near Shannon any longer either. Indeed, it may be more appropriate to just merge it with the main ATC centre at Prestwick at this point, the ongoing operations at Ballygirreen seem needless in light of modern technological advances.

Considering ATC services are managed by the IAA and not the airport it's absolutely nothing to do with Shannon's independence or not. It could have happened if it were still part of the DAA. The approach control for the airport was relocated to Dublin some years ago.

No real need for Ballygireen Comms Station to be moved

highlydebased

highlydebased wrote: »

Considering ATC services are managed by the IAA and not the airport it's absolutely nothing to do with Shannon's independence or not. It could have happened if it were still part of the DAA. The approach control for the airport was relocated to Dublin some years ago.

No real need for Ballygireen Comms Station to be moved

I agree all bar approach control in Dublin it's been back in Shannon for 3-4 years now

elastico

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Additionally, I hope that the Ballygirreen Atlantic control centre can now be centralized to Dublin also as there would appear to be no need for it to operate from near Shannon any longer either. Indeed, it may be more appropriate to just merge it with the main ATC centre at Prestwick at this point, the ongoing operations at Ballygirreen seem needless in light of modern technological advances.

Great idea, lets campaign for well paid jobs, that presumably are being paid for in the main by foreign airlines, to be moved out of the country.:rolleyes:

lord lucan

Brennans Row wrote: »

By the way, welcome back from your banishment.

Absolutely no reason to bring up a persons previous transgressions,I view it as baiting and it won't be tolerated. Play nice or not at all.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Brennans Row wrote: »

Why any Dubliner would be constantly bothered about the length of Shannon Airport's runway or the large-size of Antonov aircraft that land there (with or without train locomotives) is beyond me.

elastico wrote: »

Why does such a trival urban legend trouble you so much?

A more impartial view of the situation would be to wonder why a trivial size-fixated urban legend is presented as fact by Clare County Council and others who should know better.

I suspect we're seeing how these myths are constructed.

• An225 lands in Shannon a few times over the years (maybe even sometimes carrying a generator)
• An225 sets world record by carrying a 190 ton generator from Frankfurt-Hahn to Armenia
• An124, exceptionally, carries a locomotive from Canada to Dublin to meet a delivery deadline

Add it all up, and you get a myth to the effect that a world record was set by an An225 delivering locomotives for Iarnrod Eireann to Shannon Airport.

Cookiemunster

On the runway thing. Was it the longest civilian runway when it was extended to 3200m in 1966? That could easily explain where it originally came from.

According to this there are 1858 paved runways in the EU of which only 118 are longer than 3049m. I can't find how many are longer than 3200m, but it means that Shannons runway is in the top 6% of longest runways. Therefore saying it's one of the longest in Europe is not an incorrect statement.

And anyone taking what TDs and county councillors in press releases seriously needs their heads examined.

Brennans Row

lord lucan wrote: »

Absolutely no reason to bring up a persons previous transgressions,I view it as baiting and it won't be tolerated. Play nice or not at all.

Hello Lord Lucan, my apologies as baiting was not my intention here.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And anyone taking what TDs and county councillors in press releases seriously needs their heads examined.

I agree. If someone points out that a trivial size-fixated urban legend is presented as fact by Clare County Council and others who should know better, then the fault lies with the person pointing this out.

While the various authorities actually spouting rubbish are to be commended.

JCX BXC

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I agree. If someone points out that a trivial size-fixated urban legend is presented as fact by Clare County Council and others who should know better, then the fault lies with the person pointing this out.

While the various authorities actually spouting rubbish are to be commended.

Its really not as much of an issue as you point out.

kub

There was me thinking that only Cork people suffered from that inferior complex.....

Cookiemunster

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I agree. If someone points out that a trivial size-fixated urban legend is presented as fact by Clare County Council and others who should know better, then the fault lies with the person pointing this out.

While the various authorities actually spouting rubbish are to be commended.

What are you on about? You have a fixation about as you called it youself "a trivial size-fixated urban legend". You seem to be the only one who cares about this. Who cares if some nobody county councillor throws out the line once and a while. Those actually involved in the aviation industry ie those who actually matter know that actual truth.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You seem to be the only one who cares about this.

But, sure, if you didn't care about it you'd just ignore the thread.

And the reason that anyone can Google up a few "longest runway" in a few seconds is precisely because Mid-West politicians expect that the remark will resonate - it's what (some) people want to hear.

And, indeed, a few posters on here show a slight reluctance to let go of some of these myths.

elastico

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

But, sure, if you didn't care about it you'd just ignore the thread.

And the reason that anyone can Google up a few "longest runway" in a few seconds is precisely because Mid-West politicians expect that the remark will resonate - it's what (some) people want to hear.

And, indeed, a few posters on here show a slight reluctance to let go of some of these myths.

I think people can't ignore how funny it is that you are constantly getting all worked up about something as trivial as the length of the runway in Shannon.

Funniest part is you keep adding fuel to the myth by constantly drawing reference to it.

BTW, this time last year you were getting your knickers in a twist claiming the Santa flights from Shannon were a cynical effort to make it look like passenger numbers were up, the Santa flights are going ahead again this year but you seem to be very quiet on the subject.

lambayire

Well I managed to get tickets for me and my 2 boys for one of the Santa flights on Sunday.

Really looking forward to it.

Not so much looking forward to the drive there and back from Dublin!

Cookiemunster

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

But, sure, if you didn't care about it you'd just ignore the thread.

And the reason that anyone can Google up a few "longest runway" in a few seconds is precisely because Mid-West politicians expect that the remark will resonate - it's what (some) people want to hear.

And, indeed, a few posters on here show a slight reluctance to let go of some of these myths.

If I google "longest runway in Europe" I don't see any of article stating Shannon is the longest runway in Europe on the first page. There are 2 articles about the night time run on page 2 (which don't state it's the longest in Europe) and nothing again until page 4 where this thread comes up. You obviously went out of you way to find the articles as you seem to have some fetish about putting down Shannon. I'm replying to your posts simply call out your BS for what it is.

notharrypotter

I have followed this latest part of the thread with interest.

I wonder why GVHOT chose to post (295) about the remote towers in Cork and Shannon in the Shannon thread only?

It is an issue that affects both Cork and Shannon significantly.

Perhaps it would have been more appropriate to start a dedicated thread?

There is a thread running in the Cork City about the lack of new routes at Cork.
It could have a major impact.

"SQOUNK" in post 307 rightly raises the spectre of job losses.

More and more work/services gravitate towards Dublin.

IAA Website.

This potential is greatest at smaller, less busy regional airports where the volume of traffic is likely to be insufficient to cover the costs of service provision at a user charge that is sustainable from the customers’ perspective - See more at: https://www.iaa.ie/role-atm#sthash.G0yifM7e.dpuf

Wikipedia remote towers.

Possible benefits[edit]
The main benefits of RVT is expected to be on cost efficiency.

The cost savings originate from the following factors:

No need to build and maintain control tower buildings and facilities at the local airports
More efficient use of human resources (ATCOs and AFISOs), especially by serving multiple airports with medium to low traffic levels from a centralised location
Reduced need to establish and maintain ATM systems locally at the airports. By using data communication networks from the local airport to the remote tower centre, several technical systems can be centralised, hence costs savings are possible
There is also a great potential to better and more cost efficiently serve flights which either are scheduled outside the core opening hours of the airport, or by being able to serve non scheduled traffic (ambulance flights and search-and-rescue helicopters) with an air traffic service during night time when a smaller airports would normally be closed.

Bye bye Donegal/Sligo/Knock/Shannon/Kerry/Cork/Waterford ATC staff from the regions with the corresponding loss of jobs at the various airports.

I am really shocked with COSMO KRAMER in post 309 where out of spite to Shannon he would willingly export Irish jobs to Scotland.

So much for Shannon's independence then. It is looking more and more like the political stunt that it actually was with each passing day. I hope Shannon will be contributing their share of funding to such a project and its ongoing operation thereafter rather than just piggybacking on the good will of other airports and the taxpayer yet again.

I hope that the Ballygirreen Atlantic control centre can now be centralized to Dublin also as there would appear to be no need for it to operate from near Shannon any longer either. Indeed, it may be more appropriate to just merge it with the main ATC centre at Prestwick at this point, the ongoing operations at Ballygirreen seem needless in light of modern technological advances.

Although the location in his tag might betray his loyalties

Castlebar 45m asl/South-West Glasgow 130m asl

.

A quick search of IAA Wikipedia will show it has absolutly nothing to do with Shannon airport appart from being located in the same county.

The authority is also responsible for providing communications in Shanwick airspace, with NATS providing the ATC from Prestwick. Shannon Aeradio, as it is known, is based in Ballygirreen, Newmarket-on-Fergus, County Clare.

Again the main en route ATC center is in Shannon, town that is, not Shannon Airport.

This includes a new air traffic control centre (ATCC) at Ballycasey Cross, Shannon. Built on a Greenfield site, this ATCC became fully operational in February 2004 and replaces the ATC Centre at Shannon Airport which had been in operation since 1966.

So reading from that there are 3 IAA facilities in County Clare, Radio Station in Ballygirreen, EN-ROUTE ATC center in Ballycasey and an actual Tower in Shannon Airport.
All I am sure giving valuable well paid employment to the west.
Per IAA website it has 300 ATCO's spread between Dublin/Cork and Shannon with a further 50 Radio Officers in Ballygirreen.

50 people loose their jobs to spite an airport in a different county?

ELASTICO in post 312 is right.

Great idea, lets campaign for well paid jobs, that presumably are being paid for in the main by foreign airlines, to be moved out of the country.

I hope Shannon will be contributing their share of funding to such a project and its ongoing operation thereafter rather than just piggybacking on the good will of other airports and the taxpayer yet again.

.

This is an IAA initiative not a Shannon Airport and the IAA gets no funding from the taxpayer and in fact is a net contributor via a dividend to the exchequer.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

elastico wrote: »

BTW, this time last year you were getting your knickers in a twist claiming the Santa flights from Shannon were a cynical effort to make it look like passenger numbers were up, the Santa flights are going ahead again this year but you seem to be very quiet on the subject.

But, sure, why would I revisit an issue that's settled? Without the Santa flights, Shannon Airport would have recorded a drop in passenger numbers in 2013. To recap, the 2013 Santa flights involved 24 flights taking off from Shannon, flying 4,500 people around in a circle, landing again in Shannon and counting that as 9,000 passengers - 4,500 departures and 4,500 arrivals.

This year, I'd expect Shannon will have an actual increase in traffic. Hence, you'll notice they are offering less than half the number of Santa flights.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If I google "longest runway in Europe" I don't see any of article stating Shannon is the longest runway in Europe on the first page.

Those more comfortable with Google would likely try the following search, and get back what they needed in a matter of moments.

https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22shannon+airport%22+%22longest+runway+in+Europe%22

Cookiemunster

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Those more comfortable with Google would likely try the following search, and get back what they needed in a matter of moments.

https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22shannon+airport%22+%22longest+runway+in+Europe%22

See you were going out of your was looking for these quotes to suit your own agenda. The normal person won't actually do that and if they simply search for Europes longest runway they won't find Shannon. Despite BS your claims.

Cosmo Kramer

notharrypotter wrote: »

I am really shocked with COSMO KRAMER in post 309 where out of spite to Shannon he would willingly export Irish jobs to Scotland.


Although the location in his tag might betray his loyalties .

As you have pointed out regarding my locations, I have no specific preference as to whether such jobs are retained in Scotland or Ireland but seeing as most of the ATC work takes place at Prestwick anyway it would seem sensible to centralise it there. Shannon and Prestwick are two similar airports in terms of history but, while Shannon has been bailed out repeatedly thanks to local vested political interests, Prestwick (despite coming into public ownership) has largely been left to fend for itself and is on the verge of losing its only airline. A reminder for those at Shannon, perhaps, how life might be without repeated political interference to their benefit over the years.

notharrypotter

I have no specific preference as to whether such jobs are retained in Scotland or Ireland but seeing as most of the ATC work takes place at Prestwick anyway it would seem sensible to centralise it there

I would disagree with your contention that its fine to export valuable jobs.
IAA website again.

A space based system using satellite based ADS-B to provide full air traffic control service on the north Atlantic and elsewhere where radar is lacking.

It is a technological step change which will offer airlines significant fuel savings and fuel efficiencies of €100 million on the North Atlantic alone. - See more at: https://www.iaa.ie/innovation#sthash.d0IFM9F5.dpuf

I think its far better that such valuable jobs should be retained in Ireland.

I posted it in the SHANNON airport thread as it's relevant to Shannon and I didn't feel it needed it's own thread yet.

Stop seeing conspiracies where there isn't any !